BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-30-2012, 03:25 AM   #155
Autobahn335i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Autobahn335i's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Luxembourg

Posts: 1,599
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvr4 View Post
Did you bother to read my post? You'd have to replace nearly everything on your 335i to compete with a stock M3. Congrats on wasting your money and thanks for proving my point.

Not sure who told you M3 brakes need to be replaced in order to race. Pads sure if your doing 6+ 20 minute sessions on a track day, but the disc too? No, it's fairly large and dissipates heat rather decently. The suspension is damn good too. I have 70k miles on my stock brakes and 4 long and hard track days on them. So let me tell you, from someone who owns an M3 and races it. No, the brakes and suspension are not bad and in fact very good.

If you want to play the "I'VE GOT MODS!" game. I can put a supercharger on my M3 for less than you can make your 335i compete with a stock M3. Sorry but the tiny snails and craptastic fuel pump that come on the N54 are not going to push 500+ hp to the wheels. You better sit down for this one.... A fully modded M3 is better than a fully modded 335i. Holy shit your mind is now blown. Sorry to burst your bubble. I can put a supercharger on my M3 and not have to worry or replace half the crap you would to get 500+ rwhp. I also would never trust an N54 with that much power.

With the logic you're using the 6g72 in my 3000gt is better than the S65... because you know, it's modded and stuff. You see comparing a modded car to a stock car sounds really intelligent and makes me feel like I didn't buy a lesser car. Or something like that. Right?

In the end it's nice to have a car I can drive to the track and not have to replace anything on. Maybe one day you'll have a car like that too.
I made the math ealier in this thread: my car has roughly $35k in mods/upgrades.

For a S/C + suspension + BBK + wheels an M3 owner needs to shell out $26k. That's a minimum. Yes, such an M3 will be superior, but it's not cheap by any means.
__________________
Performance Seats, Exhaust, Splitters, Pedals, Steering Wheel / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / Forge FMIC / Quaife LSD / Öhlins Road & Track / M3 Suspension Parts / Powerflex Bushings / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Racing Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR DPs / Alpina TCU / COBB Pro-Tune
Autobahn335i is offline   Luxembourg
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #156
PIXXFLIX
Private First Class
 
PIXXFLIX's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brickell

Posts: 102
iTrader: (0)

My upgraded turbo 335i wouldve killed my M3 liked It killed every M3 I raced....... just saying
PIXXFLIX is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 09:38 AM   #157
jtvr4
Private
 
Drives: 2008 M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Kansas City

Posts: 66
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
I made the math ealier in this thread: my car has roughly $35k in mods/upgrades.

For a S/C + suspension + BBK + wheels an M3 owner needs to shell out $26k. That's a minimum. Yes, such an M3 will be superior, but it's not cheap by any means.

It's not 26k for a supercharger, brake kit and aftermarket coilovers. The wheels are forged... You don't have to replace them. You also do not need to replace the brakes. Pads, lines and fluid are more than enough for 99% of the people on this forum.

VF620 14k... installed http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732612

ST-40: 3,500... You don't need anything more than that. You don't race in Grand-am. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513130

KW V3: 2,500 http://www.ecstuning.com/Flyer-E90_M3/ES2092403/

Total: $20,000

Where are you getting the extra $6,000 at? Driving lessons to use all the bullshit I listed to their maximum capability? Most of the people here can't even push their stock M3 to it's limit on the track.
jtvr4 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 10:17 AM   #158
Autobahn335i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Autobahn335i's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Luxembourg

Posts: 1,599
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvr4 View Post
It's not 26k for a supercharger, brake kit and aftermarket coilovers. The wheels are forged... You don't have to replace them. You also do not need to replace the brakes. Pads, lines and fluid are more than enough for 99% of the people on this forum.

VF620 14k... installed http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732612

ST-40: 3,500... You don't need anything more than that. You don't race in Grand-am. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513130

KW V3: 2,500 http://www.ecstuning.com/Flyer-E90_M3/ES2092403/

Total: $20,000

Where are you getting the extra $6,000 at? Driving lessons to use all the bullshit I listed to their maximum capability? Most of the people here can't even push their stock M3 to it's limit on the track.
I took average prices, which aren't out of this world:

Intercooled S/C $15k
Suspension $3k (KW V3 but you also need camber plates at the very least)
Track wheels+tires $2k
BBK F+R $6k

Stock M3 brakes with upgraded pads will be ok for mid-speed tracks, but not on tracks like Spa which are very heavy on the brakes!

But the sky's the limit, really. Just have a look at the track builds in the sponsor's showcase subforum. The amount of modding for a proper track build is not so different for the M3 vs 335i.

Although I agree that out of the box the M3 is better suited for the track. N54 needs a huge amount of cooling. Some prefer NA over FI on a track. Current tunes for the N54 allow for very linear throttle response though. But don't forget about the higher running costs for the M3. All replacement parts have the //M tax written all over them.

Hmm, what were we arguing about again?

__________________
Performance Seats, Exhaust, Splitters, Pedals, Steering Wheel / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / Forge FMIC / Quaife LSD / Öhlins Road & Track / M3 Suspension Parts / Powerflex Bushings / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Racing Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR DPs / Alpina TCU / COBB Pro-Tune
Autobahn335i is offline   Luxembourg
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 10:51 AM   #159
tibra1
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

Posts: 6,777
iTrader: (4)

This thread is SOOOOOOOO beat already..dont you guys tire of hearing yourselves?
tibra1 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 11:09 AM   #160
Bimmerlover76
Captain
 
Bimmerlover76's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Posts: 599
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nguyener View Post
lol@ e1000 I guess I am mad. Its not just on the forum but also on the streets.
Well, the ravings of a stupid people are just that. Stupid. Don't sweat the small sh**. Anyways, one of our best presidents, President Theodore Roosevelt, said to walk quietly and carry a big stick.

Do it.
Bimmerlover76 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #161
BOOstJunkee
Private First Class
 
Drives: Turbo S54 & N54 awd
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jersey

Posts: 114
iTrader: (0)

Everyone just give it up... HPF S54 destroys all.
But seriously, I have a E46 M3 and a E92 328, my neighbor has a E92 M3 and there are about 5 335s within a 3 block radius. One is fully modded and others have mods, but at the end of the day, its just another 3 series. They are all over the road. Yes they can be made fast for reasonable money, but it will never be an ///M.
BOOstJunkee is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 11:24 AM   #162
Killerfish2012
Major
 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvr4 View Post
As for the S65 not being a distinguished engine?

I like to race, i'll take a flat torque curve and 8,300rpm... Ever driven an M3, Porsche GT3, C6 z06? High output NA engines are fantastic. If I wanted to race a turbocharged car i'd get an Evo, not a 335i.
1. The N65 is a motorcycle engine. The S65, didn't win any awards.
2. All that reving to 8,000+rpms, takes its toll on the motor, crank, and main bearings of the engine. Do a search on any E46/90 M3 forum.
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, V1, Yokohama AD08

Last edited by Killerfish2012; 08-30-2012 at 02:26 PM.
Killerfish2012 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 11:28 AM   #163
Killerfish2012
Major
 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvr4 View Post
Did you bother to read my post? You'd have to replace nearly everything on your 335i to compete with a stock M3. Congrats on wasting your money and thanks for proving my point.
Actually according to car and driver, VIR bone stock:

335I: 3:10
E90 M3: 3:05

Their conclusion: If the 335I had come with a limited slip diff, instead of an open diff, the times would have been equal. So as long as you are keeping both cars stock, all you would need in the 335I is an LSD.
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, V1, Yokohama AD08
Killerfish2012 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 11:39 AM   #164
Carl L
Captain
 
Carl L's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 M3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Coast

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
1. The N65 is a motorcycle. The S65, didn't win any awards.
If you're not deliberately trolling, I'd advise you seek immediate medical care.
__________________
'15 M3
-prev M-cars: E60, E92, E46, E36
Carl L is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 12:56 PM   #165
gthal
Brigadier General
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 3,215
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Anyone who spends time in both cars know they are VERY different from the factory. Yes, a 335 can be modded... as can any car. If saving $$ is important or if you can't swing an M3, the 335 is great. Unless someone has a real mod fetish, I would much prefer to buy a stock M3 than a 335 and mod it even if the 335 can be modded to be a little faster. If you build a 335 into an M3, the cost of doing so would put you very close to a stock M3 but with the M3 you actually still have warranty . There is nothing special about the 335 other than mod capability IMO. You could get an STi or Evo and do the exact same thing (but likely with better capability ). The M3 is a different car and in a higher price class so you would expect that but anyone who claims the S65 is not a special engine and adds a ton to the car is either crazy, blind with fanboyism, or has never really experienced one. I'm not a blind M3 fan (I don't even own an E92 M3 any longer) but I absolutely do appreciate the quality of the car and it is very different than a 335.

If I had the choice of a modded 335 that is faster in a straight line (and capable on the track) or a stock M3 for the same price, I would pick the M3 hands down. It isn't badge related and it isn't status related. It is the difference between a balanced, purpose built car that feels and acts like a sports car with a race inspired engine with a flat torque curve with tons of torque to the wheels especially at the track (and any experienced track rat will understand the benefit of that over FI) versus a frankenstein 335 that is bolted and pieced together.

But, as others have said, this is played out and tired. If you own a 335, be happy and stop worrying about the M3. If you own an M3, don't argue with the 335 guys trying to prove their car is as good or better.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 02:27 PM   #166
Killerfish2012
Major
 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
If you're not deliberately trolling, I'd advise you seek immediate medical care.
He's an M3 owner, with enough Ca$h to buy the vehicle instead of my 335I, so he should at least know the difference between his engine code, and the one for a motorcycle.
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, V1, Yokohama AD08
Killerfish2012 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 05:53 PM   #167
jtvr4
Private
 
Drives: 2008 M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Kansas City

Posts: 66
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
He's an M3 owner, with enough Ca$h to buy the vehicle instead of my 335I, so he should at least know the difference between his engine code, and the one for a motorcycle.
Reading top to bottom and left to right. I never called the engine an N65. Stop being obtuse.

An achievement of this calibre is only exceeded by the string of successes claimed by the fourth BMW Group award-winner in 2012. For the fifth time in a row, the V8 engine of the BMW M3 high-performance sports car provides the measure of all things in the 3.0-litre to 4.0-litre displacement class.

The BMW S65 is a V8 DOHC piston engine which replaced the (straight-6) S54 and was produced from 2007–present (as of August 2012).

Derived from the BMW S85 V10 engine used in the M5/M6, it shares the same basic architecture and aluminium construction. It was introduced in the E92 M3 and was chosen as International Engine of the Year for the 3.0 to 4.0 L category in 2008, 2009, 2010,[1] 2011, and 2012.



Dear god man, it's called reading.
__________________
2008 M3 Sedan - SOLD
1993 3000GT VR4 - AEM EMS 506awhp 511awtq
jtvr4 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2012, 09:46 PM   #168
IFX
Banned
 
Drives: AW e46M/N54
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Fla.

Posts: 2,538
iTrader: (1)

hey where is that one video of the PP c63 stomping that 335i in on the race track from a roll?

It's actually that same 335 posted in this thread, poor guy dumped all that money into a 335 and lost to a stock car. lmao
IFX is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2012, 03:49 PM   #169
lenzm3edan
First Pride
 
lenzm3edan's Avatar
 
Drives: E90, Mercedes C300, subi
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

Posts: 1,388
iTrader: (6)

[quote=idrift4wd;12591686]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenzm3edan View Post

my "breaks" are doing just fine, 335i BRAKES do very well, just may not look as nice.

And no, not everyone would pick the m3. 335i offers x-drive and at a much lower price point. Beside the fact that m3 is a better TRACK car, i feel the 335i is a better STREET car. For the price you pay of course you expect things to get better. MPG, Torque, lower price point, and less expensive maintenance excluded. Which one is better to say you have? yeah m3. There alot of 335i owners who of course do want an m3, but are MORE then satisfied with their 335. Not saying 335i is better what so ever, but 335 is a great car for the money.
I've driven modded 335 and their brakes are a joke compared to M3 brakes. Even at stock level the brakes fade on the 335 when driven hard, I NEVER had brake fade in my M. I do however agree with everything else you state in your reply.
__________________
ESS VT-2 595 silverstone E90 /// M3 - 6spd - AD08 - Spacers - H&R - AA exhaust - Primary cat delete - Custom test pipes - ESS tune - Lighted ZHP.

lenzm3edan is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2012, 04:37 PM   #170
armyav8tor
n1smo
 
armyav8tor's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 1,447
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Actually according to car and driver, VIR bone stock:

335I: 3:10
E90 M3: 3:05

Their conclusion: If the 335I had come with a limited slip diff, instead of an open diff, the times would have been equal. So as long as you are keeping both cars stock, all you would need in the 335I is an LSD.
Magazine racing at its best. I've driven VIR a few times and have ran against just about every car imaginable on it. A 335i would need a lot more than a LSD to hang with a M3. The Bimmer that came close to running as fast as me was not a 335 but a 135 on R compound but he was still 2 seconds slower. A 335i modded or not is no match for the balance of the M3. The S65 is a work of art at the track, the sound track alone is worth the price of admission.
armyav8tor is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2012, 05:15 PM   #171
armyav8tor
n1smo
 
armyav8tor's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 1,447
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Here's said 135i;

bavarianstig
armyav8tor is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-14-2012, 10:38 AM   #172
ken1137
Brigadier General
 
ken1137's Avatar
 
Drives: a slow 2009 e90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Chicago

Posts: 3,697
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2009 e90 335i  [3.20]
Aren't we all in the same family and can't we all just get along? Well, you can tell all of the 335 owners the 135 with the same bolt-ons and tune will beat the 335 in the 1/4 and run circles around it on the track. The M3 is the ultimate driving machine, and yes some of us cannot afford it right now due to other priorities in life. That said, an M3 will be in my garage as soon as I am done paying $40K for my daughter's annual tuition
__________________

BMWCCA member
ken1137 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-19-2012, 08:35 PM   #173
Beemw335
Colonel
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: My car is my home

Posts: 2,016
iTrader: (2)

Lets be honest how many of you go to the track more than a few times a year. For those that go often get the m3 an never look back.
For 90% of m3 owners, the handling argument makes no sense, when 335 owners say there car is faster, tey are talking about straight line speed, which lets be honest a slighty tuned 335 has that advantage.
As for sound, I completely agree that the m3 sounds better, but for a city driven car, and races from light to light, the n54 beats the s65, on the track the s65 beats the n54.
/thread
Beemw335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-19-2012, 08:43 PM   #174
Carl L
Captain
 
Carl L's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 M3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Coast

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
Lets be honest how many of you go to the track more than a few times a year. For those that go often get the m3 an never look back.
For 90% of m3 owners, the handling argument makes no sense, when 335 owners say there car is faster, tey are talking about straight line speed, which lets be honest a slighty tuned 335 has that advantage.
As for sound, I completely agree that the m3 sounds better, but for a city driven car, and races from light to light, the n54 beats the s65, on the track the s65 beats the n54.
/thread
Ken's intelligent post above yours would be a more appropriate way to "/thread"

Even forgetting the track argument, the 335i is a nice car but I'd far rather drive an M3 as my daily than a 335. I can't think why anyone wouldn't, but it's cool that you apparently do and I'm glad you enjoy your car
__________________
'15 M3
-prev M-cars: E60, E92, E46, E36
Carl L is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-19-2012, 09:55 PM   #175
Longboarder
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

Posts: 3,717
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.71]
2013 e92 M3  [4.55]
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
Ken's intelligent post above yours would be a more appropriate way to "/thread"

Even forgetting the track argument, the 335i is a nice car but I'd far rather drive an M3 as my daily than a 335. I can't think why anyone wouldn't, but it's cool that you apparently do and I'm glad you enjoy your car
Do you have a 335? i have both a a 2010 e92 n54 335 and a 2013 e92 M3 currently. The 335 is modded. i like them about the same but for very different reasons. M3 owners who have never owned a modded 335 seem not to understand this.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Longboarder is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-19-2012, 10:16 PM   #176
EB9512
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2008 335i SDN Sport Pkg
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan

Posts: 114
iTrader: (0)

My car is a stock 335i so many may wish to stop reading this post now....

As I read through this thread I kept remembering back to when I was married but without the three kids. Then my passion was hunting and fishing. I would fish regional bass tourneys whenever I could and read websites on boats and (gasp) mods done to make them faster. This thread reads like all of those as well...people saying they bought the right and better boat.... (my Javelin is better than your Stratos....yeah? My Triton is better than your Javelin and because I have the proper pitch and angles on my SS prop my 125hsp will wipe the floor with your 150). It all comes down to justification for our individual purchases. I could have paid for an M3 instead of a 335 and if I were track oriented I may have done so....I like the M3 styling better. Notice I wrote "I" so that does not mean the styling is better, just better to my eyes. Again "I" think that the 335 and M3 are very different cars. Stock...both cars are fast. Modded both get way faster. In the end though, very different cars. Basically buy what you want and love it everyday because we are all lucky not to be driving horse carts in some other God forsaken wasteland. I wanted to drive something everyday as I run around selling "high quality dental goods" that put a smile on my face. My car does that for me. That is enough.....mods....maybe a chip in the future for a little extra thrill....but for me....not to impress anyone else.
EB9512 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST