My 335I Rant

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by gthal

Come on.. there is NO arguing about it. The S65 is a far superior engine and that is not debatable. Can the 335's engine be modded for more power than a stock S65? Sure. An S65 can be modded too. However, the power that can be created through modding has little to do with the quality of the engine. Debate which car is the better performance "value" all you want but let's not start silly debates on which engine is better.

S65 isn't bad, I believe the N54 has won more awards, and recognition for engineering. S65 didn't really distinguish itself among 8cyls, like the N54 did in the 6cyl category. But what do a bunch of professional engineers know anyways?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Optherion

I must be the only forum member to go from a 2009 and 2011 e92 M3 to a 335i Coupe lol. Had to make room in the garage and the only reason I switched was for the gas mileage and daily driving. 335i is just my commuter car and I always tell people, "oh its just the beater" (sarcastically of course).

Wasnt without the M3 long that I needed another car so I also picked up a 2010 GT3 and 2010 GT-R in the process to replace the m3.

I think the 335 is a nice sleeper. The M3 is obviously BMW's pride and joy of the M division. If you can afford the step up go for one. However after owning 2 M3's, and it came time to get rid of one, I wasnt sure about a 3rd one.

Interesting observation. The internet is a really bad way to come to statistically based conclusions, but form reading both forums, it would seem that 335I owners are much happier with their purchase in the long term. We have so many folks with high mileage, like myself. The M3 seems to have a high turn around, as most people seem to jump out of it, into a GTR, or Z06, after owning it for a really short time.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

S65 isn't bad, I believe the N54 has won more awards, and recognition for engineering. S65 didn't really distinguish itself among 8cyls, like the N54 did in the 6cyl category. But what do a bunch of professional engineers know anyways?

[jtvr4]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

S65 isn't bad, I believe the N54 has won more awards, and recognition for engineering. S65 didn't really distinguish itself among 8cyls, like the N54 did in the 6cyl category. But what do a bunch of professional engineers know anyways?

Yeah the N54 is known for going into limp mode on a race track and the poweband isn't nearly as good as the S65 for track racing. If you couldn't afford an M3 that's cool but pretending the N54 is better is silly.

Also the 335 comes with an open diff, crap suspension, shit brakes and non performance wheels/tire... Yes you could replace those items, but why? In hopes to compete on some level with an M3? Should have got an M3.

As for the S65 not being a distinguished engine?


I like to race, i'll take a flat torque curve and 8,300rpm... Ever driven an M3, Porsche GT3, C6 z06? High output NA engines are fantastic. If I wanted to race a turbocharged car i'd get an Evo, not a 335i.

[Autobahn335i]

Originally Posted by jtvr4

Yeah the N54 is known for going into limp mode on a race track and the poweband isn't nearly as good as the S65 for track racing. If you couldn't afford an M3 that's cool but pretending the N54 is better is silly.

Also the 335 comes with an open diff, crap suspension, shit brakes and non performance wheels/tire... Yes you could replace those items, but why? In hopes to compete on some level with an M3? Should have got an M3.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but a fully modded 335i is in fact superior to a STOCK M3 (by a margin...) and not only in the straight line

Yes, you'll have a hard time to admit it, but there are a number of flaws even on the M3. At the track, every serious M3 owner has at least upgraded the suspension and the brakes (those are really a shame for a sports car, but this has been a problem for many M3 generations).

Obviously, modding is expensive, especially given the BMW tax some tuners charge.

[jtvr4]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

Sorry to burst your bubble, but a fully modded 335i is in fact superior to a STOCK M3 (by a margin...)

Did you bother to read my post? You'd have to replace nearly everything on your 335i to compete with a stock M3. Congrats on wasting your money and thanks for proving my point.

Not sure who told you M3 brakes need to be replaced in order to race. Pads sure if your doing 6+ 20 minute sessions on a track day, but the disc too? No, it's fairly large and dissipates heat rather decently. The suspension is damn good too. I have 70k miles on my stock brakes and 4 long and hard track days on them. So let me tell you, from someone who owns an M3 and races it. No, the brakes and suspension are not bad and in fact very good.

If you want to play the "I'VE GOT MODS!" game. I can put a supercharger on my M3 for less than you can make your 335i compete with a stock M3. Sorry but the tiny snails and craptastic fuel pump that come on the N54 are not going to push 500+ hp to the wheels. You better sit down for this one.... A fully modded M3 is better than a fully modded 335i. Holy shit your mind is now blown. Sorry to burst your bubble. I can put a supercharger on my M3 and not have to worry or replace half the crap you would to get 500+ rwhp. I also would never trust an N54 with that much power.

With the logic you're using the 6g72 in my 3000gt is better than the S65... because you know, it's modded and stuff. You see comparing a modded car to a stock car sounds really intelligent and makes me feel like I didn't buy a lesser car. Or something like that. Right?

In the end it's nice to have a car I can drive to the track and not have to replace anything on. Maybe one day you'll have a car like that too.

[Autobahn335i]

Originally Posted by jtvr4

Did you bother to read my post? You'd have to replace nearly everything on your 335i to compete with a stock M3. Congrats on wasting your money and thanks for proving my point.

Not sure who told you M3 brakes need to be replaced in order to race. Pads sure if your doing 6+ 20 minute sessions on a track day, but the disc too? No, it's fairly large and dissipates heat rather decently. The suspension is damn good too. I have 70k miles on my stock brakes and 4 long and hard track days on them. So let me tell you, from someone who owns an M3 and races it. No, the brakes and suspension are not bad and in fact very good.

If you want to play the "I'VE GOT MODS!" game. I can put a supercharger on my M3 for less than you can make your 335i compete with a stock M3. Sorry but the tiny snails and craptastic fuel pump that come on the N54 are not going to push 500+ hp to the wheels. You better sit down for this one.... A fully modded M3 is better than a fully modded 335i. Holy shit your mind is now blown. Sorry to burst your bubble. I can put a supercharger on my M3 and not have to worry or replace half the crap you would to get 500+ rwhp. I also would never trust an N54 with that much power.

With the logic you're using the 6g72 in my 3000gt is better than the S65... because you know, it's modded and stuff. You see comparing a modded car to a stock car sounds really intelligent and makes me feel like I didn't buy a lesser car. Or something like that. Right?

In the end it's nice to have a car I can drive to the track and not have to replace anything on. Maybe one day you'll have a car like that too.

I made the math ealier in this thread: my car has roughly $35k in mods/upgrades.

For a S/C + suspension + BBK + wheels an M3 owner needs to shell out $26k. That's a minimum. Yes, such an M3 will be superior, but it's not cheap by any means.

[PIXXFLIX]

My upgraded turbo 335i wouldve killed my M3 liked It killed every M3 I raced....... just saying

[jtvr4]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

I made the math ealier in this thread: my car has roughly $35k in mods/upgrades.

For a S/C + suspension + BBK + wheels an M3 owner needs to shell out $26k. That's a minimum. Yes, such an M3 will be superior, but it's not cheap by any means.

It's not 26k for a supercharger, brake kit and aftermarket coilovers. The wheels are forged... You don't have to replace them. You also do not need to replace the brakes. Pads, lines and fluid are more than enough for 99% of the people on this forum.

VF620 14k... installed http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732612

ST-40: 3,500... You don't need anything more than that. You don't race in Grand-am. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513130

KW V3: 2,500 http://www.ecstuning.com/Flyer-E90_M3/ES2092403/

Total: $20,000

Where are you getting the extra $6,000 at? Driving lessons to use all the bullshit I listed to their maximum capability? Most of the people here can't even push their stock M3 to it's limit on the track.

[Autobahn335i]

Originally Posted by jtvr4

It's not 26k for a supercharger, brake kit and aftermarket coilovers. The wheels are forged... You don't have to replace them. You also do not need to replace the brakes. Pads, lines and fluid are more than enough for 99% of the people on this forum.

VF620 14k... installed http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732612

ST-40: 3,500... You don't need anything more than that. You don't race in Grand-am. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513130

KW V3: 2,500 http://www.ecstuning.com/Flyer-E90_M3/ES2092403/

Total: $20,000

Where are you getting the extra $6,000 at? Driving lessons to use all the bullshit I listed to their maximum capability? Most of the people here can't even push their stock M3 to it's limit on the track.

I took average prices, which aren't out of this world:

Intercooled S/C $15k
Suspension $3k (KW V3 but you also need camber plates at the very least)
Track wheels+tires $2k
BBK F+R $6k

Stock M3 brakes with upgraded pads will be ok for mid-speed tracks, but not on tracks like Spa which are very heavy on the brakes!

But the sky's the limit, really. Just have a look at the track builds in the sponsor's showcase subforum. The amount of modding for a proper track build is not so different for the M3 vs 335i.

Although I agree that out of the box the M3 is better suited for the track. N54 needs a huge amount of cooling. Some prefer NA over FI on a track. Current tunes for the N54 allow for very linear throttle response though. But don't forget about the higher running costs for the M3. All replacement parts have the //M tax written all over them.

Hmm, what were we arguing about again?

[tibra1]

This thread is SOOOOOOOO beat already..dont you guys tire of hearing yourselves?

[Bimmerlover76]

Originally Posted by Nguyener

lol@ e1000 I guess I am mad. Its not just on the forum but also on the streets.

Well, the ravings of a stupid people are just that. Stupid. Don't sweat the small sh**. Anyways, one of our best presidents, President Theodore Roosevelt, said to walk quietly and carry a big stick.

Do it.

[SeXiPYm3]

Everyone just give it up... HPF S54 destroys all.
But seriously, I have a E46 M3 and a E92 328, my neighbor has a E92 M3 and there are about 5 335s within a 3 block radius. One is fully modded and others have mods, but at the end of the day, its just another 3 series. They are all over the road. Yes they can be made fast for reasonable money, but it will never be an ///M.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by jtvr4

As for the S65 not being a distinguished engine?

I like to race, i'll take a flat torque curve and 8,300rpm... Ever driven an M3, Porsche GT3, C6 z06? High output NA engines are fantastic. If I wanted to race a turbocharged car i'd get an Evo, not a 335i.

1. The N65 is a motorcycle engine. The S65, didn't win any awards.
2. All that reving to 8,000+rpms, takes its toll on the motor, crank, and main bearings of the engine. Do a search on any E46/90 M3 forum.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by jtvr4

Did you bother to read my post? You'd have to replace nearly everything on your 335i to compete with a stock M3. Congrats on wasting your money and thanks for proving my point.

Actually according to car and driver, VIR bone stock:

335I: 3:10
E90 M3: 3:05

Their conclusion: If the 335I had come with a limited slip diff, instead of an open diff, the times would have been equal. So as long as you are keeping both cars stock, all you would need in the 335I is an LSD.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

1. The N65 is a motorcycle. The S65, didn't win any awards.

If you're not deliberately trolling, I'd advise you seek immediate medical care.

[gthal]

Anyone who spends time in both cars know they are VERY different from the factory. Yes, a 335 can be modded... as can any car. If saving $$ is important or if you can't swing an M3, the 335 is great. Unless someone has a real mod fetish, I would much prefer to buy a stock M3 than a 335 and mod it even if the 335 can be modded to be a little faster. If you build a 335 into an M3, the cost of doing so would put you very close to a stock M3 but with the M3 you actually still have warranty . There is nothing special about the 335 other than mod capability IMO. You could get an STi or Evo and do the exact same thing (but likely with better capability ). The M3 is a different car and in a higher price class so you would expect that but anyone who claims the S65 is not a special engine and adds a ton to the car is either crazy, blind with fanboyism, or has never really experienced one. I'm not a blind M3 fan (I don't even own an E92 M3 any longer) but I absolutely do appreciate the quality of the car and it is very different than a 335.

If I had the choice of a modded 335 that is faster in a straight line (and capable on the track) or a stock M3 for the same price, I would pick the M3 hands down. It isn't badge related and it isn't status related. It is the difference between a balanced, purpose built car that feels and acts like a sports car with a race inspired engine with a flat torque curve with tons of torque to the wheels especially at the track (and any experienced track rat will understand the benefit of that over FI) versus a frankenstein 335 that is bolted and pieced together.

But, as others have said, this is played out and tired. If you own a 335, be happy and stop worrying about the M3. If you own an M3, don't argue with the 335 guys trying to prove their car is as good or better.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter

If you're not deliberately trolling, I'd advise you seek immediate medical care.

He's an M3 owner, with enough Ca$h to buy the vehicle instead of my 335I, so he should at least know the difference between his engine code, and the one for a motorcycle.

[jtvr4]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

He's an M3 owner, with enough Ca$h to buy the vehicle instead of my 335I, so he should at least know the difference between his engine code, and the one for a motorcycle.

Reading top to bottom and left to right. I never called the engine an N65. Stop being obtuse.

An achievement of this calibre is only exceeded by the string of successes claimed by the fourth BMW Group award-winner in 2012. For the fifth time in a row, the V8 engine of the BMW M3 high-performance sports car provides the measure of all things in the 3.0-litre to 4.0-litre displacement class.

The BMW S65 is a V8 DOHC piston engine which replaced the (straight-6) S54 and was produced from 2007–present (as of August 2012).

Derived from the BMW S85 V10 engine used in the M5/M6, it shares the same basic architecture and aluminium construction. It was introduced in the E92 M3 and was chosen as International Engine of the Year for the 3.0 to 4.0 L category in 2008, 2009, 2010,[1] 2011, and 2012.



Dear god man, it's called reading.

[IFX]

hey where is that one video of the PP c63 stomping that 335i in on the race track from a roll?

It's actually that same 335 posted in this thread, poor guy dumped all that money into a 335 and lost to a stock car. lmao

[lenzm3edan]

[quote=idrift4wd;12591686]

Originally Posted by lenzm3edan

my "breaks" are doing just fine, 335i BRAKES do very well, just may not look as nice.

And no, not everyone would pick the m3. 335i offers x-drive and at a much lower price point. Beside the fact that m3 is a better TRACK car, i feel the 335i is a better STREET car. For the price you pay of course you expect things to get better. MPG, Torque, lower price point, and less expensive maintenance excluded. Which one is better to say you have? yeah m3. There alot of 335i owners who of course do want an m3, but are MORE then satisfied with their 335. Not saying 335i is better what so ever, but 335 is a great car for the money.

I've driven modded 335 and their brakes are a joke compared to M3 brakes. Even at stock level the brakes fade on the 335 when driven hard, I NEVER had brake fade in my M. I do however agree with everything else you state in your reply.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Actually according to car and driver, VIR bone stock:

335I: 3:10
E90 M3: 3:05

Their conclusion: If the 335I had come with a limited slip diff, instead of an open diff, the times would have been equal. So as long as you are keeping both cars stock, all you would need in the 335I is an LSD.

Magazine racing at its best. I've driven VIR a few times and have ran against just about every car imaginable on it. A 335i would need a lot more than a LSD to hang with a M3. The Bimmer that came close to running as fast as me was not a 335 but a 135 on R compound but he was still 2 seconds slower. A 335i modded or not is no match for the balance of the M3. The S65 is a work of art at the track, the sound track alone is worth the price of admission.