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      08-27-2012, 07:20 AM   #1
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VIR Weekend with Tarheel BMWCCA 25-26 AUG 12

Here's a video of my solo session on Sunday. We'll post more stuff later, enjoy.

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      08-27-2012, 09:04 AM   #2
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Nice driving and vid. Helmet GoPro FTW.

I'll be at VIR Sep 21 with Rezoom.
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      08-27-2012, 10:37 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Nice driving and vid. Helmet GoPro FTW.

I'll be at VIR Sep 21 with Rezoom.
Thanks man, can't wait to see your videos! I hear the Rezoom event is going to be great because of all the track time but I can't get off work that Friday.
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      08-27-2012, 10:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Purple Derple View Post
You sure were hustling. Compromise turn 4 almost completely and you will get a faster run all the way to turn 10 and get a bunch of time.
I appreciate the feedback but the late turn in compromise thing doesn't make me faster with this M3. We tried a few different techniques going through there and this line seems to be the best and I gather you noticed that it is much different than the HPDE taught line. Looks a little too early but it works!

I looked at the data from the session before the Trackmaster crapped out and I'm entering the climbing Esses at around 125 mph and climb up it at around 115 mph until around 8 and 9 where I drop briefly below 110mph to 108 before going back up to 110 mph between 9 and 10 just before the hitting the brakes for turn 10. Now this is the 3rd solo session, I was even more agressive on the 4th session. Wish I had the data to look at. Damn android app.
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      08-27-2012, 10:56 AM   #5
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Great video and driving! Love watching these vids, learning a lot just watching, you seem very aggressive on the curbing, really shortening the track and yeah a 2:13 is flying out there, I found the lap Will be watching this video again and again as you really seem to be using the whole track and hitting every apex. Couldn't quite tell but do you hit both apex' at oak tree or forsake the first one for the second? and down to 2nd gear for that one huh? Looked really good and love the 1080i as well as the wagon out there, great video
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      08-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
I appreciate the feedback but the late turn in compromise thing doesn't make me faster with this M3. We tried a few different techniques going through there and this line seems to be the best and I gather you noticed that it is much different than the HPDE taught line. Looks a little too early but it works!

I looked at the data from the session before the Trackmaster crapped out and I'm entering the climbing Esses at around 125 mph and climb up it at around 115 mph until around 8 and 9 where I drop briefly below 110mph to 108 before going back up to 110 mph between 9 and 10 just before the hitting the brakes for turn 10. Now this is the 3rd solo session, I was even more agressive on the 4th session. Wish I had the data to look at. Damn android app.
I agree completely. I used to heavily compromise 4 but I still couldn't go thru 5/5A full throttle even with optimal line. You end up giving up time for position in 4 but can't take advantage of it in 5. I gained time just by turning in earlier and carrying a tad more speed thru 4.

Are you breathing off at all entering the esses or are you flat out?

2:13?! Johnny, you are a madman!! You're upping the ante on me now, I won't get back up there until end of Oct. with Chin.

Nice job!
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      08-27-2012, 02:04 PM   #7
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2:13? what tires and mods? That's a very impressive time for street tires for sure. The previous fastest I've seen for a street tire (other than Leh Keen) was like 2:16 ish.

You're lowering my time goal for next event!
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      08-27-2012, 06:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Great video and driving! Love watching these vids, learning a lot just watching, you seem very aggressive on the curbing, really shortening the track and yeah a 2:13 is flying out there, I found the lap Will be watching this video again and again as you really seem to be using the whole track and hitting every apex. Couldn't quite tell but do you hit both apex' at oak tree or forsake the first one for the second? and down to 2nd gear for that one huh? Looked really good and love the 1080i as well as the wagon out there, great video
Thanks, the wagon is driven by a soccer mom and we progressed up from C Group together. She smoked a lot of the guys out there which I get a kick out of watching every time. Her lines are really good but she coasts a lot (that's from her own admission in class).

As far as Oak Tree, I've been playing with both techniques and still have not decided which one is better. In that session, I made it into a single apex (Oak Tree) which one think once I get it right will be the fastest way to go. I brake just past the 3 marker and then brake all the way into the turn until I'm at the left rumblestrip then I'm back on the gas all the way around Oak Tree. At least that's the concept, execution is still a work in progress due to that big tree being there, it throws me off.

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Great! Thanks for sharing!


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Originally Posted by Purple Derple View Post
Well the only reason I say that is because it sounded like you weren't getting to full throttle until apex of 5a and in a HP car I would think you'd get more benefit from being on the throttle sooner than trying to carry as much speed into the turn as possible. I like to turn early too but trail the brake longer to keep the nose in on the curbing and to get the back to come around. Then its full power from there with a little breath at turn in for 5a. I haven't seen the data on it though so you probably know better.
Yeah, that was the line we started with when I first went out with my instructor back in February. But by that Sunday, we had switched to the line that I'm running due to what Bill mentions below. I requested the same instructor this time around and he was mostly happy with what I was doing at turn 4, he says I'm just a hair early but he told me not to mess with it since I seem to make it work. But I'll definitely try out your technique next time and report back.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper519 View Post
I agree completely. I used to heavily compromise 4 but I still couldn't go thru 5/5A full throttle even with optimal line. You end up giving up time for position in 4 but can't take advantage of it in 5. I gained time just by turning in earlier and carrying a tad more speed thru 4.

Are you breathing off at all entering the esses or are you flat out?

2:13?! Johnny, you are a madman!! You're upping the ante on me now, I won't get back up there until end of Oct. with Chin.

Nice job!
Thanks Bill! Hopefully work will slow down in October and I can come out to play! I think that 2:13 lap could have been faster but I messed up at Roller Coaster and it cost me time all the way through.

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Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
2:13? what tires and mods? That's a very impressive time for street tires for sure. The previous fastest I've seen for a street tire (other than Leh Keen) was like 2:16 ish.

You're lowering my time goal for next event!
The same mods as before, AA Filter, AA Pulley, Akrapovic EVO, Eibach springs (w/ e36 M3 bumpstop), and PFC front BBK running PF01 pads. The tires made the biggest difference, brand new Yokahoma Advan AD08s (255/275) at 30psi cold, 38psi hot.

My wife took these photos... I'm so proud of her I can shed a tear




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      08-27-2012, 08:32 PM   #9
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Cool, AD08's are indeed excellent for a true street tire. Guess I have a tough goal for September
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      08-27-2012, 09:37 PM   #10
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@armyav8tor - that was some impressive driving at VIR. I was running in Group B also in AW e90M3. You got by me in Session #3 on Sunday (only car to pass me). I thought I was moving good running 2:18s until I saw that video. Tried to find you in the pits afterwards to check out your car. Do you have any video from Session #3?

I was impressed how you were pounding those curbs going up the esses. What kind of springs and suspension do you have? My car is stock except brakes/tires and was a bit unsettling hitting those curbs at 105mph going up the esses.
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      08-27-2012, 11:11 PM   #11
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Nice vid! That was plain fast. Ext mic next time?
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      08-28-2012, 07:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Cool, AD08's are indeed excellent for a true street tire. Guess I have a tough goal for September
Hey, I used your video to learn the lines before I went to the track in February. It worked great. The student has become the master... j/k!

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Originally Posted by kartracer12 View Post
@armyav8tor - that was some impressive driving at VIR. I was running in Group B also in AW e90M3. You got by me in Session #3 on Sunday (only car to pass me). I thought I was moving good running 2:18s until I saw that video. Tried to find you in the pits afterwards to check out your car. Do you have any video from Session #3?

I was impressed how you were pounding those curbs going up the esses. What kind of springs and suspension do you have? My car is stock except brakes/tires and was a bit unsettling hitting those curbs at 105mph going up the esses.
I'll upload the video when I get home from work today. I didn't want to post it because I was messy as hell in that session. I had MDM on and it was putting me to sleep. So in session 4, I went with DSC off which usually works because I have to be on my toes.

I have EDC suspension (Sport setting) riding on Eibach springs w/e36 bumpstop. It went up the esses nicely, I mean, you can tell that the car is barely on the ground but I don't drive fast, I fly low (gay). But seriously, I was going up the esses almost as fast (will look at video to confirm) during the off line excerise and it did fine on both side of the track. Still trying to figure out how the hell that dude in the R8 managed to crash like that... please don't hit the wall, please don't hit the wall.... god damnit!!!!! god damnit!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Andy_H_E92_M3 View Post
Nice vid! That was plain fast. Ext mic next time?
Yeah, the mic is still unopened in the box. Please post some of your videos so I can hear the mic in action!
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      08-28-2012, 09:38 AM   #13
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Nice Vid, and good driving. Thanks for posting.

Here is vid test I did Friday morning early (light rain prior) to determine if Harry's Lap Timer would function okay while on a tri pod located in the rear center of the E92 (no direct sight to the sky like on the wind sheild). It appears to have done okay, only not to continue video for my second and third laps. Don't know why the video crapped out as the data was received. Second lap 2.16:22 and the third 2.19:43.

You commented on your line through Oak tree, and I too take a simular approach. The video, although much slower speed with this lap, indicates the line I drive. I sort of make it one continuous turn, (note steering input) late apexing over the gator next to the tree. I use third gear and once turn in is established, power is applied continuously, probably 3/4 throttle when over the girder with a lot of attention to what the rear end is attempting to do.

Good to see you, and hope to see you again soon at VIR.

vz

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      08-28-2012, 12:28 PM   #14
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Hi there...was also at VIR. Here's a video of the last instructor session on Saturday. The video also shows my buddy Brian in an E36 M3 with Liam from Wounded Warrior in the passenger seat. I was out to try to catch them...we meet around 16:00. <snicker>

I haven't timed my laps but guess I'll need to do that someday. What a great weekend at the track.

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      08-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Nice Vid, and good driving. Thanks for posting.

Here is vid test I did Friday morning early (light rain prior) to determine if Harry's Lap Timer would function okay while on a tri pod located in the rear center of the E92 (no direct sight to the sky like on the wind sheild). It appears to have done okay, only not to continue video for my second and third laps. Don't know why the video crapped out as the data was received. Second lap 2.16:22 and the third 2.19:43.

You commented on your line through Oak tree, and I too take a simular approach. The video, although much slower speed with this lap, indicates the line I drive. I sort of make it one continuous turn, (note steering input) late apexing over the gator next to the tree. I use third gear and once turn in is established, power is applied continuously, probably 3/4 throttle when over the girder with a lot of attention to what the rear end is attempting to do.

Good to see you, and hope to see you again soon at VIR.

vz

Doc, I apologize for not stopping by to sit down and talk to you again! I can't believe how hectic these events are even though there is so much time in between runs. And thanks for sharing your videos, I'm subscribed to your youtube channel in case you didn't know

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Hi there...was also at VIR. Here's a video of the last instructor session on Saturday. The video also shows my buddy Brian in an E36 M3 with Liam from Wounded Warrior in the passenger seat. I was out to try to catch them...we meet around 16:00. <snicker>

I haven't timed my laps but guess I'll need to do that someday. What a great weekend at the track.

Cool video
Liam, is he the one with one leg? Because that guy jumped from C to A group, I was like, WTF?!?!!? Good for him though, my buddy Hans who was running in C group said he was quick in that Z.
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      08-28-2012, 06:22 PM   #16
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Liam, is he the one with one leg? Because that guy jumped from C to A group,
Yes, Liam, a wounded warrior and honor guest at Tarheel, is a very accomplished driver, with a lot of experience at the track. I enjoyed his company, and am very grateful for his unselfish sacrefice given to our country. Wonderful having him with us and to be part of his return to the track.

See you at the next event at VIR that you can make.
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      08-29-2012, 06:41 AM   #17
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Loved the vid, I'm going to have to expand my horizons from auto-x. VIR is 4 hours away from me, so I have to figure out if I'll have enough energy to drive there, do the event, and drive home all in one day.
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      08-29-2012, 09:35 AM   #18
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Loved the vid, I'm going to have to expand my horizons from auto-x. VIR is 4 hours away from me, so I have to figure out if I'll have enough energy to drive there, do the event, and drive home all in one day.
Highly recommend you sign up for a two day event and plan on overnighting, at least two nights. VIR is a large track, and will take some doing to drive it properly, so instruction will be helpful. Join us for a two day event. You will be pleased with the experience, and kinship you no doubt will develop.
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      08-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #19
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Wish I'd seen these videos before my event... if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a few questions about several corners. I mean your approach obviously works considering the lap times, I am just wondering about a few things trying to understand what's going on.

The line the instructor recommended at Oak tree was to compromise 11, but I never felt too comfortable with that, I should have experimented more. Thanks for your thoughts...

Did you try various approaches to 14-14a-15? I saw the standard approach of late apexing for 14 and 14a, then the line my instructor recommended of essentially driving over 14, taking 14 with the right wheels on the inside curbs all the way and now there's your line which seems a bit different.

With stock suspension, when I entered the esses at over 120mph the car could just not settle between turns, so I had to bleed speed to get back in the groove. 115 was the highest I could enter while still managing the transitions with a small margin. I wonder if going over the grey curbs allows you greater speed, or if the springs make that much difference. But that's a dangerous place to experiment perhaps, so I am not sure I'll follow in your footsteps.

Interesting observations about 4-5-5a , I think I'll try your approach to next time and see how it feels.

Thanks for posting your videos and thoughts, it's been very educational.
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      08-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by kartracer12 View Post
@armyav8tor - that was some impressive driving at VIR. I was running in Group B also in AW e90M3. You got by me in Session #3 on Sunday (only car to pass me). I thought I was moving good running 2:18s until I saw that video. Tried to find you in the pits afterwards to check out your car. Do you have any video from Session #3?

I was impressed how you were pounding those curbs going up the esses. What kind of springs and suspension do you have? My car is stock except brakes/tires and was a bit unsettling hitting those curbs at 105mph going up the esses.
Session 3 on Sunday as requested.
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      08-29-2012, 09:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Wish I'd seen these videos before my event... if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a few questions about several corners. I mean your approach obviously works considering the lap times, I am just wondering about a few things trying to understand what's going on.

The line the instructor recommended at Oak tree was to compromise 11, but I never felt too comfortable with that, I should have experimented more. Thanks for your thoughts...

Did you try various approaches to 14-14a-15? I saw the standard approach of late apexing for 14 and 14a, then the line my instructor recommended of essentially driving over 14, taking 14 with the right wheels on the inside curbs all the way and now there's your line which seems a bit different.

With stock suspension, when I entered the esses at over 120mph the car could just not settle between turns, so I had to bleed speed to get back in the groove. 115 was the highest I could enter while still managing the transitions with a small margin. I wonder if going over the grey curbs allows you greater speed, or if the springs make that much difference. But that's a dangerous place to experiment perhaps, so I am not sure I'll follow in your footsteps.

Interesting observations about 4-5-5a , I think I'll try your approach to next time and see how it feels.

Thanks for posting your videos and thoughts, it's been very educational.
I can't take credit for my fast times, I have to give all of the credit to Christian Thompson, my instructor. I think him and Mike Skeen are best friends so I'm benefiting from that friendship I'm sure. The lines are all his, the more advance techniques like using the single apex at Oak Tree, trail braking all the way around 11 and then be on the gas just before 12.

As far as 14-14a, the technique is to make it one corner by basically drawing a straight line from the back straight all the way to 14a then hug 14a on the right curb for as long as you can before going into 15, thus removing 14 as a corner all together.

The climbing esses, I think it is a combination of using the FIA curbing and the Eibach springs. The important thing is to have smooth, precise inputs. Stay left a little longer than the right, especially at turn 8, which will set you up for turn 9 because you want your steering wheel straight before you hit the crest at turn 10 or that little bump up there will unsettle the car and throw you off the track if you are carrying too much speed (or so I've been told by Chris).

It also helps to have a big pair. This was the 3rd time at VIR and HPDE. I did have 75 laps at the Ring under my belt which is where I grew my balls.
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      08-29-2012, 09:58 PM   #22
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Nice video again Looks like you were running 2:15's in the first few laps till you hit traffic the rest of the session. MDM didn't slow you that much, maybe 1 sec tops, but that's what happens when you have the right lines Learning a bunch and studying your lines, awesome video and driving, thanks again
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