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      08-26-2012, 07:44 PM   #45
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A 991S with any options whatsoever is going to run you $105-110K.....while it is indeed a fantastic car.....it needs a body kit to get rid of the droopy ass end and that is going to add even more on to the $105K+ price tag. Sorry, but I ain't shelling out $40K more than a brand new M3 for it. Porsche has lost their fcuking mind on the base price of these cars.

On top of that, if ANYBODY thinks that the electric steering of a 991 provides better feedback/feel than a 997 versioned 911 or an E9X M3 they have lost their mind as well. They are purely blinded the Porsche badge. I, along with countless other non Porsche nutswingers, will tell you the new electric steering sucks donkey balls. And yes, even king Porsche nutswinger Chris Harris is not fond of the e steering. Go pick up a copy of "Excellence" magazie if you doubt me.

Get off the Porsche nutsack. BTW - I own a Porsche currently so this is not coming from a Porsche hater, BMW fanboi, etc.

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      08-26-2012, 08:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by alms211
A 991S with any options whatsoever is going to run you $105-110K.....while it is indeed a fantastic car.....it needs a body kit to get rid of the droopy ass end and that is going to add even more on to the $105K+ price tag. Sorry, but I ain't shelling out $40K more than a brand new M3 for it. Porsche has lost their fcuking mind on the base price of these cars.

On top of that, if ANYBODY thinks that the electric steering of a 991 provides better feedback/feel than a 997 versioned 911 or an E9X M3 they have lost their mind as well. They are purely blinded the Porsche badge. I, along with countless other non Porsche nutswingers, will tell you the new electric steering sucks donkey balls. And yes, even king Porsche nutswinger Chris Harris is not fond of the e steering. Go pick up a copy of "Excellence" magazie if you doubt me.

Get off the Porsche nutsack. BTW - I own a Porsche currently so this is not coming from a Porsche hater, BMW fanboi, etc.
Thank you for the sobering post. I am looking at a 997 GT3 right now and it's looking better and better everyday. Love the M3; no better car for the money out there.
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      08-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #47
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LarThal,
I really feel like getting an RS4 for my next winter DD. Since the '08 RS4's were the last ones to be imported in the USA, I really wanted to add that car in the stable for Lake Tahoe, Reno trips during the winter.

Not pretty sure if I can bare with the carbon build up problem and opening/cleaning the engine every 20K miles.

I've been lurking in the RS4 forums and all they found was a catch can or the recirculating unit as the solution. The latter does help, but only by a tad. Has anybody found a fix yet?
Every 10k miles I take a snake scope into the cylinder head and check on the valves. Most of the time I find relatively low carbon build up. Pretty much every Audi FSI engine has this problem to an extent. Does this prevent me from enjoying my car? Hell no. I think the minor inconvenience is worth it. Odd because sometimes I can't feel a discernible loss in power, but I still find carbon deposits. I'm also waiting for an effective solution. For now, this will do.
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      08-26-2012, 08:45 PM   #48
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LarThal,
I really feel like getting an RS4 for my next winter DD. Since the '08 RS4's were the last ones to be imported in the USA, I really wanted to add that car in the stable for Lake Tahoe, Reno trips during the winter.

Not pretty sure if I can bare with the carbon build up problem and opening/cleaning the engine every 20K miles.

I've been lurking in the RS4 forums and all they found was a catch can or the recirculating unit as the solution. The latter does help, but only by a tad. Has anybody found a fix yet?
Nope, no fix. It is an early direct injection design and the carbon buildup is a result of several factors. The catch can addresses the issue of fuel getting into the crankcase and breakdown products reentering the intake through the crankcase venting system, but the greater culprit was the amount of valve overlap and the exposure of direct injected fuel to hot exhaust gases. It is not an issue apparently with forced induction direct injection motors, and Audi has since made some design changes to their NA direct injection engines (although I haven't kept up with this since leaving the Audi scene). I actually did my own carbon clean and posted details along the way up on Quattroworld. That carbon gunk is messy and you do lose some power as a result. Cleaning it is a straightforward but tedious process. You just have to look at it as a 20,000 mile "service".

That said, I have never had as much fun doing anything in any car, at any time, than I did driving my RS4 with 4 snow tires in a foot of fresh powder.

Not me, but you get the idea:

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      08-26-2012, 09:06 PM   #49
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Thank you for the sobering post. I am looking at a 997 GT3 right now and it's looking better and better everyday. Love the M3; no better car for the money out there.
wtf you cant get a gt3 you just got a gtr? that is not allowed.
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      08-26-2012, 09:16 PM   #50
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wtf you cant get a gt3 you just go a gtr? that is not allowed.
yes sir, that's my plan! I have eyes set on this red 2005 997 GT3 with only 10k miles. How much do you think it's worth?

Love the GT-R. What a monster of a car it is.
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      08-26-2012, 09:33 PM   #51
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yes sir, that's my plan! I have eyes set on this red 2005 997 GT3 with only 10k miles. How much do you think it's worth?

Love the GT-R. What a monster of a car it is.
To my knowledge there was no 997 GT3 made in 2005, it debuted in 2006. Maybe you mean 996 GT3?
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      08-26-2012, 11:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
Every 10k miles I take a snake scope into the cylinder head and check on the valves. Most of the time I find relatively low carbon build up. Pretty much every Audi FSI engine has this problem to an extent. Does this prevent me from enjoying my car? Hell no. I think the minor inconvenience is worth it. Odd because sometimes I can't feel a discernible loss in power, but I still find carbon deposits. I'm also waiting for an effective solution. For now, this will do.
I really hope someone, some enthusiast, or some company can find a PERMANENT solution. There's actually a company that's doing some R&D with methanol injection. I elaborated on that on my reply to LarThal. I really want a DD for winter and the RS4 got my vote.


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Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Nope, no fix. It is an early direct injection design and the carbon buildup is a result of several factors. The catch can addresses the issue of fuel getting into the crankcase and breakdown products reentering the intake through the crankcase venting system, but the greater culprit was the amount of valve overlap and the exposure of direct injected fuel to hot exhaust gases. It is not an issue apparently with forced induction direct injection motors, and Audi has since made some design changes to their NA direct injection engines (although I haven't kept up with this since leaving the Audi scene). I actually did my own carbon clean and posted details along the way up on Quattroworld. That carbon gunk is messy and you do lose some power as a result. Cleaning it is a straightforward but tedious process. You just have to look at it as a 20,000 mile "service".

That said, I have never had as much fun doing anything in any car, at any time, than I did driving my RS4 with 4 snow tires in a foot of fresh powder.

Not me, but you get the idea:

Now, that is fun especially in the snow.

Other RS4 guys are going for methanol injection, but the problem is that with the methanol injection, the intake ports and valves get injected at WOT. Some company in the Audi forum is trying to change that. It's currently in R&D in which they plan to inject the methanol not just at WOT, but AT ANY GIVEN TIME purely for valve cleaning purposes. This process will "bathe" the intake ports and valves with fuel and cleans it in the process, just like a port injected n/a vehicle. That hopefully should be the solution to the carbon build-up problem.
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      08-27-2012, 12:09 AM   #53
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To my knowledge there was no 997 GT3 made in 2005, it debuted in 2006. Maybe you mean 996 GT3?
he is correct the new 997s came out in 2006 but that years gt3 was still based on the 996. similar to what is occuring now with the 991 and the gt3 still being a 997.
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      08-27-2012, 03:50 AM   #54
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What a bunch of BS. People who say This often do not even own one. I own both and can tell you that the GT-R is as raw as they come! Like the M3, GT-R has tons of character and is exciting to drive. "Clinical" can be used to describe a Volvo but using that adjective on a Porsche or Godzilla is simply inappropriate.

I think what people are trying to say to describe GT-R and Cayman/Boxster is that they are PRECISE. The lesser Porsches are great fun to drive but lack brutal power to make them exhilarating to drive. After all, we drive fast cars to go FAST. GT-R does both and does exactly what the drivers wants it to do. It's a great combination that will stand the test of time. RWD/Front engine cars are fun to toss around, but what would you want to drive if you have a million dollar bet on the racetrack?
No I definitely wasn't trying to say they are precise even though that adjective would be also appropriate. I've owned a 987S and 997S so I haven't made comments only after a quick drive down the road.

Haven't owned or driven a GTR so I can't really make a statement on that.

EDIT: I still would like to get a 997.2 GT3 at some point!
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      08-27-2012, 08:55 AM   #55
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I built a 991s last night on their site and stayed under 100. Just paid for paint and sports seats.
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      08-27-2012, 09:20 AM   #56
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I really want a DD for winter and the RS4 got my vote.
How about a 991 C4S?
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      08-27-2012, 11:41 AM   #57
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he is correct the new 997s came out in 2006 but that years gt3 was still based on the 996. similar to what is occuring now with the 991 and the gt3 still being a 997.
Thanks for your expert input. How much do you think this 2005 996 GT3 is worth if it's got 10k miles and is in very good condition. I have ridden in it and it is like a go-kart. The engine characteristics is very much like the S65 but much louder partly due to absence of sound insulation. What a sexy car!
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      08-27-2012, 11:55 AM   #58
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There is a cobalt blue gt3 up here I have looked at. Its a 2005 with 25000 miles I believe. Its priced at 64 which I think is a little high.
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      08-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #59
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There is a cobalt blue gt3 up here I have looked at. Its a 2005 with 25000 miles I believe. Its priced at 64 which I think is a little high.
Get it brother! Negotiate and get that baby in your garage! Would love to see you own the GT3 then we can both chat on the Porsche forum too!
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      08-27-2012, 12:16 PM   #60
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How about a 991 C4S?
If the new 991 CS starts at $96,400, the 991 C4S will start close to or even at $100K for sure. Budget is not there for another brand new car, so I have to have to pass on brand new vehicle. This is not a $40K vehicle were talking about here. This is a vehicle that is over $100K after taxes and licensing. Hmm speaking of C4S, a used 997 C4S might do. I really wanted an AWD vehicle with 4 doors. We'll see.

Anyways, my budget is around $40-$45k for a used RS4. Don't like a brand new EVO X or STi since they have that boy-racer look. I also don't like the attention the EVO X and sti gets in the freeway. I rode in my friends EVO X on the way to L.A. a few months back and we have encountered 5 cars (I really counted) that tried to race us. All my friend has aesthetically are a lip, lowered, and some knock off rims. He has a downpipe, exhaust, and a tune under the hood. It's really sickening coz these guys pull to the side, lower their windows, give us that "I wanna race you" kind of look and go for it. One of them even had to tailgate to get attention for a race. Take note, his EVO did not have the spoiler, but still guys tried to race us.

I really wanted to get an AWD vehicle that suits my age, is good for the snow, European, and fun to drive.
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      08-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #61
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If the new 991 CS starts at $96,400, the 991 C4S will start close to or even at $100K for sure. Budget is not there for another brand new car, so I have to have to pass on brand new vehicle. This is not a $40K vehicle were talking about here. This is a vehicle that is over $100K after taxes and licensing. Hmm speaking of C4S, a used 997 C4S might do. I really wanted an AWD vehicle with 4 doors. We'll see.

Anyways, my budget is around $40-$45k for a used RS4. Don't like a brand new EVO X or STi since they have that boy-racer look. I also don't like the attention the EVO X and sti gets in the freeway. I rode in my friends EVO X on the way to L.A. a few months back and we have encountered 5 cars (I really counted) that tried to race us. All my friend has aesthetically are a lip, lowered, and some knock off rims. He has a downpipe, exhaust, and a tune under the hood. It's really sickening coz these guys pull to the side, lower their windows, give us that "I wanna race you" kind of look and go for it. One of them even had to tailgate to get attention for a race. Take note, his EVO did not have the spoiler, but still guys tried to race us.

I really wanted to get an AWD vehicle that suits my age, is good for the snow, European, and fun to drive.
Why not look at a 335xi? Mine has been with me for 4 years and it has served me well in harsh winters in the NE and possesses all the positive attributes of the series without any of the unwanted attention.
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      08-27-2012, 04:17 PM   #62
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If the new 991 CS starts at $96,400, the 991 C4S will start close to or even at $100K for sure. Budget is not there for another brand new car, so I have to have to pass on brand new vehicle. This is not a $40K vehicle were talking about here. This is a vehicle that is over $100K after taxes and licensing. Hmm speaking of C4S, a used 997 C4S might do. I really wanted an AWD vehicle with 4 doors. We'll see.

Anyways, my budget is around $40-$45k for a used RS4. Don't like a brand new EVO X or STi since they have that boy-racer look. I also don't like the attention the EVO X and sti gets in the freeway. I rode in my friends EVO X on the way to L.A. a few months back and we have encountered 5 cars (I really counted) that tried to race us. All my friend has aesthetically are a lip, lowered, and some knock off rims. He has a downpipe, exhaust, and a tune under the hood. It's really sickening coz these guys pull to the side, lower their windows, give us that "I wanna race you" kind of look and go for it. One of them even had to tailgate to get attention for a race. Take note, his EVO did not have the spoiler, but still guys tried to race us.

I really wanted to get an AWD vehicle that suits my age, is good for the snow, European, and fun to drive.
If you don't need the awd, the C2S is better and more fun than the C4S imho. Many guys on the east coast drive the C2S in the snow with no problems.
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      08-27-2012, 04:24 PM   #63
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Why not look at a 335xi? Mine has been with me for 4 years and it has served me well in harsh winters in the NE and possesses all the positive attributes of the series without any of the unwanted attention.
Just needed a car that's n/a. Not into FI right now. Maybe in the near future when the new F80 M3 comes out.


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If you don't need the awd, the C2S is better and more fun than the C4S imho. Many guys on the east coast drive the C2S in the snow with no problems.
I really wanted a sedan, but the C2S is something to reconsider.
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      08-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #64
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Thanks for your expert input. How much do you think this 2005 996 GT3 is worth if it's got 10k miles and is in very good condition. I have ridden in it and it is like a go-kart. The engine characteristics is very much like the S65 but much louder partly due to absence of sound insulation. What a sexy car!
im no expert. i have never pulled the trigger on any porsche although i have driven quite a few. im just a lurker i guess.
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      08-27-2012, 04:30 PM   #65
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Just needed a car that's n/a. Not into FI right now. Maybe in the near future when the new F80 M3 comes out.
In my opinion there is nothing to suggest that the turbo engine in the next M3 will be more outstanding than the current NA engine, which is going to lead to a lot of disappointment on the part of die-hard M buyers. What is the big deal with a I-6 that can make 450 HP? There are a number of cars that far exceed that already. Everyone knows that it take only a few grand and you can make 450-500 hp with the N54 engine. The prospect of spending 75-80k (likely will be more) on a new M3, only to have you ass handed to you by another car that cost the same or less, is not appealing at all.
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      08-27-2012, 04:36 PM   #66
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thats why im gonna drop a 572 into the wifes civic. so fanbois will cry.
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