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      08-19-2012, 07:33 PM   #1
paradocs98
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HPDE strictness re. camera mounts

Just a heads-up: I was at Lime Rock yesterday with BMWCCA Patroon chapter for an HPDE event. The organizers were very strict about the securing of camera mounts. They wanted an additional means of securing the camera when a suction mount was used, such as zip-tying to the rear-view mirror, etc. They said they much preferred hard mounts for cameras. They also said that GoPro units are known for failed suction mounts and that the issue is being evaluated by the company.

I mention this because in my two years of doing this, with several groups (NASA, SCDA, IMG, two PCA chapters), this is the first time the organizers have been so strict about this issue.

Also, they stated that in-car timing would NOT be allowed. Data acquisition was allowed, but a current/real-time display of lap time was prohibited. This was also the first time I had heard of this restriction. I guess they want the drivers paying more attention to their driving than their lap times.
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      08-19-2012, 09:38 PM   #2
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I've never seen a GoPro mount fly off (and have seen hundreds used), and I've had mine to 160+ mph a few times and 150+ many times. I was under the impression that GoPro rated it to over 200 mph if it is on glass.
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      08-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
Also, they stated that in-car timing would NOT be allowed. Data acquisition was allowed, but a current/real-time display of lap time was prohibited. This was also the first time I had heard of this restriction. I guess they want the drivers paying more attention to their driving than their lap times.
From an insurance perspective, as soon as you have timing feedback, the HPDE goes from being an educational event to a racing event (not here to argue that, just the rationale for major clubs like BMWCCA and PCA not allowing in car timing systems). That would basically prevent the clubs from getting HPDE day insurance.
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      08-19-2012, 09:52 PM   #4
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Nothing surprising here.
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      08-20-2012, 11:25 AM   #5
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Every club is different, including regions within a club (ie CCA). I bring a cruisecam, a suction cap and a strap for the GoPro every time to be safe but here's the gist of it at least in the NE:

CCA: cruisecam with strap
PCA: cruisecam (no strap) or suction cap
NASA: suction cap (no headrest mount!)
SCDA/Trackdaze/TT4C: any of the above

Also, no on-dash timing for CCA & PCA. Rest are less strict especially in the advanced groups
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      08-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #6
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I agree that ALL cameras need to be tethered, even if on a tri pod. iphones are particularly vulnerable if only mounted to a suction cup holder, which in turn is stuck on the windshield. Should your car have a "hard" off, chances are better than slim your phone is going to have an off from the cup holder. Seen it happen.

Seems funny when some poor person has had an off, and when the car is pulled or carried back to the paddock, the driver becomes busy looking for his phone.
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      08-20-2012, 12:57 PM   #7
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Restrictions on camera mounting is growing - mainly from experience. Some clubs prohibit ANY external camera. Some prohibit external cameras on a suction cup (must be hard mounted or the GoPro adhesive). Some require a back-up leash.

I was out last week with PCA and they don't allow internal cameras on a suction cup. Too many past incidents. I know NJ BMWCCA requires a hard internal mount and a back-up leash that prevent the camera from reaching the driver or passenger.

Keep in mind that a back-up leash needs to be completely independent from the hard mount and be strong enough to be effective if the car makes contact at speed with something. 20 lbs. tensile strength isn't going to cut it.

Getting clocked by a camera and mount at sudden deceleration would not be fun - let alone it getting under the pedals.

And restricting timing devices (data acquisition) is nothing new. As noted above - its an insurance issue that affects the club's insurance and the liability of everyone else at the event. Putting tape over the display shouldn't be an issue at an HPDE (assuming the club allows that). Having students watch a timing/"Best Lap" display misses the point of why they are there. Do your data analysis at home - not at speed.
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      08-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #8
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GoPro cam on the track (during 2nd session, yesterday at Buttonwillow)

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      08-20-2012, 04:13 PM   #9
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^what happened? How was it mounted?
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      08-20-2012, 07:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estoril Blue View Post

Getting clocked by a camera and mount at sudden deceleration would not be fun - let alone it getting under the pedals.
I didn't think of this potential issue--that could be a disaster!
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      08-20-2012, 08:06 PM   #11
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^what happened? How was it mounted?
Don't know whose car it fell off of, but it apparently fell off during lap 1 of that session.

It fell and rolled onto on the offline portion of the track, and we kept seeing it on every lap during that session. Apparently, nobody tried to pass there.
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      08-20-2012, 08:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
Every club is different, including regions within a club (ie CCA). I bring a cruisecam, a suction cap and a strap for the GoPro every time to be safe but here's the gist of it at least in the NE:

CCA: cruisecam with strap
PCA: cruisecam (no strap) or suction cap
NASA: suction cap (no headrest mount!)
SCDA/Trackdaze/TT4C: any of the above

Also, no on-dash timing for CCA & PCA. Rest are less strict especially in the advanced groups
bmwcca is ok with headrest hard mounts, but like you state, nasa isnt. rollbar mounts are ok, though. reason being, if someone is in the car with you, it can puncture their helmet.
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      08-20-2012, 09:48 PM   #13
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So, did you use the zip ties? Did that make BMW CCA happy? Or at least happy enough?
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      08-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
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So, did you use the zip ties? Did that make BMW CCA happy? Or at least happy enough?
Yep--zip-tied the camera suction mount to the rear-view mirror. They were okay with it.
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      08-21-2012, 11:31 AM   #15
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Zip tying the camera suction mount will do very little if the iphone decides to take an exploratory trip around the inside of the car. It is the heavy solid object that needs to be secured. Most suction mounts are light. If my student(s) have a camera in or on the car, it does not go unless it is tethered securely - my way or the highway. If the event organizer wishes to override me, then fine. Another instructor will ride with him. Safety always.
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      08-21-2012, 12:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Zip tying the camera suction mount will do very little if the iphone decides to take an exploratory trip around the inside of the car. It is the heavy solid object that needs to be secured. Most suction mounts are light. If my student(s) have a camera in or on the car, it does not go unless it is tethered securely - my way or the highway. If the event organizer wishes to override me, then fine. Another instructor will ride with him. Safety always.
vz
Based on this description, I will be zip-tying VZ to the seat for future sessions.

Sincerely,

The Pot
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      08-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
GoPro cam on the track (during 2nd session, yesterday at Buttonwillow)

.
Saw that out there, took me till the cool down lap to figure out what it was
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      08-21-2012, 03:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
Based on this description, I will be zip-tying VZ to the seat for future sessions.

Sincerely,

The Pot
This is hilarious!
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      08-21-2012, 03:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Zip tying the camera suction mount will do very little if the iphone decides to take an exploratory trip around the inside of the car. It is the heavy solid object that needs to be secured. Most suction mounts are light. If my student(s) have a camera in or on the car, it does not go unless it is tethered securely - my way or the highway. If the event organizer wishes to override me, then fine. Another instructor will ride with him. Safety always.
vz
Fortunately, my suction mounts are pretty robust PanaVise units, and the bullet cameras on them weigh about a third of what the mounts do. I agree with you that I wouldn't feel too confident in an iPhone sitting cradled on the windshield.
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      08-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
Based on this description, I will be zip-tying VZ to the seat for future sessions.

Sincerely,

The Pot
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