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      08-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #23
epbrown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lthai View Post
There are no real M cars anymore and there hasn't been one since 1999. THERE I SAID IT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
the last M car was the M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucewonder View Post
if the M isnt on a 3 series, then its not a true M car imo
And this on a BMW forum. There will always be these sorts of comments about every brand. This isn't a real M, that's not a real AMG, those aren't real Porsches, it goes on and on.

What you have to decide is if you're a car enthusiast or a badge enthusiast. If you're a car enthusiast, nothing's changed - the car is the car, regardless of what badges it has or what other cars the badge is affixed to. My M Coupe has driven the same since the X6M debuted, no air-cooled 911s were harmed by the creation of the Cayenne.

However, if a big part of the ownership experience was polishing the M badges on your car and now they're everywhere, I can see why someone like that would be peeved, but I wouldn't expect them to advertise it.
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      08-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucewonder View Post
if the M isnt on a 3 series, then its not a true M car imo

the rest are just a top tier model to make extra $
First M car was the M1 for homologation reasons, and the first actual commercially marketed M car was the E28 M5.

Where is the 3 series in all that?
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      08-19-2012, 06:33 PM   #25
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Wait, how is the 1M NOT an "M" car???

To me, an M car is BMW sending over a 1/3/5/6/Z series to their special M factory.

The engineers at M take some parts laying around, mismatch here and there, throw a new engine in and BOOM!, an M car is born.

The Z4M is pretty much a parts bin car. M3 engine, CSL suspension, Z4 body.

The Z3M is even more so. M3 engine (both S52 and S54), E30 front, E36 rear, Z3 body.

The 1M is a parts bin car as well, but still a true M.

M is just the performance branch of BMW. If they can make an X6 go fast and handle great, then that makes the M name even better!

For an engineer to take an X5 or X6, and make it faster than 99.5% of the cars on the road today, and I mean CARS, not just SUV's, then that is amazing. I bet you an X6M could give a Vette a run for its money.
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      08-19-2012, 07:34 PM   #26
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I like the debates.

That's why I posted the OP.

I do not care what others say, but I did find it interesting that the recent review of the F10 M5 on this website stated that the new M5 was a true "M" and that the 1M, X5M, X6M were not.......
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      08-19-2012, 09:38 PM   #27
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      08-19-2012, 09:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by minigearhead View Post
Yup
Remember the video of the x5 or 6 m passing the m3 on the track? It just showed that it was a pointless car for any type of Motorsport...
so you're suggesting an X5M is a better track weapon than an M3?
and what track was this?
did it have corners?
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      08-19-2012, 09:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaZeta View Post
The 1M is a parts bin car as well, but still a true M.
i believe the only bespoke part on the 1m is is the "powered by BMW M" sticker on the engine lid
the 1m was an excercise in seeing how much people would pay for a 1m
which is why production was limited, to generate hype for the next 1M based on the new chassis.
why else would a car manufacturer release a model when the new shape of that same model was already out?
a 1 year production run?
yeah right!
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      08-19-2012, 10:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i believe the only bespoke part on the 1m is is the "powered by BMW M" sticker on the engine lid
the 1m was an excercise in seeing how much people would pay for a 1m
which is why production was limited, to generate hype for the next 1M based on the new chassis.
why else would a car manufacturer release a model when the new shape of that same model was already out?
a 1 year production run?
yeah right!
Porsche does it all the time. The 997 911 Turbos and GT3's are still being produced with the 991 for sale on the lots.

But I don't see how the 1M isn't an M car? I can understand the argument for the X6M, etc., but the 1M is:

fast, handles around a track with some of the best, has unique M styling, shares many parts with the M3, is light (relative to today's cars), is limited...

Is it the turbos?
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      08-19-2012, 10:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by GammaZeta View Post
Porsche does it all the time. The 997 911 Turbos and GT3's are still being produced with the 991 for sale on the lots.

But I don't see how the 1M isn't an M car? I can understand the argument for the X6M, etc., but the 1M is:

fast, handles around a track with some of the best, has unique M styling, shares many parts with the M3, is light (relative to today's cars), is limited...

Is it the turbos?
for me
it's the 335is engine with a sticker on top
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      08-19-2012, 10:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
for me
it's the 335is engine with a sticker on top
I see.

M's have a history of having their own engine (S14, S52, S54, etc.).

So your thought is to be an M car, it can't share an engine with any of the other regular BMW's?

I think that's a pretty valid point. I don't 100% agree with it, but I understand it.
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      08-19-2012, 10:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaZeta View Post
I see.

M's have a history of having their own engine (S14, S52, S54, etc.).

So your thought is to be an M car, it can't share an engine with any of the other regular BMW's?

I think that's a pretty valid point.
pretty much yes
all M engines were based on regular BMW engines
but were then enhanced, fine tuned, strengthened etc
this was was basically the same engine as the one in the 335is, but with a sticker on top
there is a reason why the car took only 6 months to develop
as you said it, parts bin car
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      08-20-2012, 10:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i believe the only bespoke part on the 1m is is the "powered by BMW M" sticker on the engine lid
the 1m was an excercise in seeing how much people would pay for a 1m
which is why production was limited, to generate hype for the next 1M based on the new chassis.
why else would a car manufacturer release a model when the new shape of that same model was already out?
a 1 year production run?
yeah right!
You forgot:

Body panels
All suspension parts, inc. LSD


If BMW M call it and M, it's an M. You have no say in the matter. BMW M themselves stated they subscribe to no dogma, yet the fanboi clan do till their dying breath, and that's quite sad.
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      08-20-2012, 11:09 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivideBYZero View Post
You forgot:

Body panels
All suspension parts, inc. LSD


If BMW M call it and M, it's an M. You have no say in the matter. BMW M themselves stated they subscribe to no dogma, yet the fanboi clan do till their dying breath, and that's quite sad.
I don't think there really is a correct answer to this debate.

I think it is more nostalgia than anything.

I guess this is how all the muscle car fans felt in the late 70's when the oil crisis started raping their beloved V8's and gas guzzlers.
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      08-20-2012, 11:28 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivideBYZero View Post
You forgot:

Body panels
All suspension parts, inc. LSD


If BMW M call it and M, it's an M. You have no say in the matter. BMW M themselves stated they subscribe to no dogma, yet the fanboi clan do till their dying breath, and that's quite sad.
most suspension parts and LSD were from the M3
so yes a few body panels
but the heart of any M was the engine
not the fancy puffed out fenders

it's not like i'm going around ripping M badges from 1ms
Bmw can call it what they want, i don't consider it an M
you are free to believe what they feed you
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      08-20-2012, 11:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
the last M car was the M3
when M used to stand for Motorsport
the rest are the new M
where M stands for marketing/money
at least that's what my personal opinion is
I would still include the E28 in those numbers though. It was still homologated and toured.

But it is true that, outside of the M3's the M cars arent M cars in the fact that they were not developed for Motorsport (hence the M) homologation. I do think the 1M could be though, its a good chassis for it.
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      08-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaZeta View Post
Wait, how is the 1M NOT an "M" car???

To me, an M car is BMW sending over a 1/3/5/6/Z series to their special M factory.

The engineers at M take some parts laying around, mismatch here and there, throw a new engine in and BOOM!, an M car is born.

The Z4M is pretty much a parts bin car. M3 engine, CSL suspension, Z4 body.

The Z3M is even more so. M3 engine (both S52 and S54), E30 front, E36 rear, Z3 body.

The 1M is a parts bin car as well, but still a true M.

M is just the performance branch of BMW. If they can make an X6 go fast and handle great, then that makes the M name even better!

For an engineer to take an X5 or X6, and make it faster than 99.5% of the cars on the road today, and I mean CARS, not just SUV's, then that is amazing. I bet you an X6M could give a Vette a run for its money.
I like the way you think...logical.

...and just a quick note, my X5M (while tuned) smoked a fuggin vette a few weeks back. God I hate those things!

If you have complaints...maybe time to find another brand. It's pretty simple, why would you waste your money to just complain about it? Every M car out there is special in it's own way.
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      08-23-2012, 03:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
the last M car was the M3
when M used to stand for Motorsport
the rest are the new M
where M stands for marketing/money
at least that's what my personal opinion is
My opinion as well.

Last 'true' M car was the E30 M3, although I conceede that the E46 M3 CSL was a true M car in every sense apart from the fact that they didn't actually have to build it for homolgation purposes.

The 1M is in the closet BMW have come to making a true M car since the E46 CSL, but again, without a specific need to from a motorsport point of view.
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      08-24-2012, 01:43 AM   #40
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If you feel sad about one VW guy saying your car is not a real "M" (even BMW badged it that way), then just remember, at least you are better off than the guy who needs to listen to uncountable people saying he is not a real "Tour" winner. Seven times over...
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      08-24-2012, 02:23 AM   #41
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Quote:
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The x5m cut the corner and off-roaded for about 3 seconds which got it ahead of the m3...uncool
Can't believe people are comparing performance based on a commercial. I've been on at Laguna seca 2x when there was an x5m at the track. Lets just say I was passing him all day and this was when I was pretty new at it all.
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      08-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #42
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The X5M and X6M are real M cars. Maybe not in the traditional spirit of BMW M, but they are still nonetheless.
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      08-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #43
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My car is not a REAL M car because it has an S52 which is not a REAL M engine lol.

I love these debates.

I will take my NON M engine car any day(with boost of course hehe).
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      08-25-2012, 07:59 PM   #44
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If BMW says it is an M, then it IS without a doubt an M. No debates please.
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