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      08-18-2012, 12:44 AM   #1
cmpe
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Need some expert opinions on 2011 E90

Hey all,

I was considering ordering a '13 E92 but I drive a coupe now and decided I should get a sedan so have been looking for a E90.

So I found a pre-owned '11 E90 with the following specs:

Jerez Black Metallic
Black Novillo Leather interior
DCT
Convenience Package (I think this includes navi)
Premium Package 2
19" alloy wheels
moonroof
heated front seats
Clean Car Fax history
< 14000 mileage

Listed at $56K preowned

It's not listed as a certified pre-owned, should I be concerned about this?

How does the price look? The issue is that it's on sale by a BMW dealership about 3 hours away from I am.

Would appreciate any advice!
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      08-18-2012, 02:07 AM   #2
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Better a BMW dealer than another dealer or private party, but you never know. 14k miles is just broken in.

Anyway, you have four years or 50k of warranty from the in-service date, so don't sweat the CPO (run last 7 of VIN at bmwvin.com to see all options and production date, but get in-service date from dealer). If you don't know the package and option codes, go to http://************/cee4hxc for 2011 sedan option info. If you are worried about the lack of a CPO then get an extended warranty. Run the Carfax and Autocheck (but don't rely solely on those).

If it has the options (mostly) you want and you like the color combo, drive up and see it in person or see if a M3post member is nearby and have them check it out first and send you hi-res images of interior and exterior. Have the dealer black out the prior owner(s) names on the DCS and send you the DCS (service, etc.) history. If it checks out, offer $50k and go from there.

Good luck.
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      08-18-2012, 11:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpe View Post

It's not listed as a certified pre-owned, should I be concerned about this?
Yes.
Particularly since the car is from a BMW dealer. Generally, a dealer cannot CPO a car if it has sustained certain damages, e.g., frame damage. Ask the dealer why no CPO.
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      08-18-2012, 11:21 AM   #4
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Thanks guys for the info.
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      08-19-2012, 10:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
Yes.
Particularly since the car is from a BMW dealer. Generally, a dealer cannot CPO a car if it has sustained certain damages, e.g., frame damage. Ask the dealer why no CPO.
I disagree. The fact that it is not CPO is nothing to worry about, and you can likely pay the dealer to CPO if you want it.

Most dealers will not certify a car that is less than two model years old as it has at least 2 years left of factory warranty. It does not at all mean the car was wrecked or anything like that. It costs BMW and the dealer $$$ to certify the car (up front a little, and down the road maybe a lot for BMW if the car is in for CPO repairs all the time). It also hikes the price of the car. It would make no sense to tack on 2 or 3k more to a 2011 with low miles when that gets you close to a price of a '12 or a '13. The flip side is it gives you a warranty/CPO for six years/100k miles. Maybe if every '11 or '12 with 15k or less miles had that then nobody would buy a '13 as the warranty/CPO on the '11 or '12 would be unbeatable.

BMWUSA website: 172 (nationwide) '08-'12 M3s for sale at BMW dealers, only 33 are certified. I highly doubt all of them have been wrecked or had extensive damage.
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      08-19-2012, 10:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
Yes.
Generally, a dealer cannot CPO a car if it has sustained certain damages, e.g., frame damage. Ask the dealer why no CPO.
Not true. If the mileage is low enough, they don't need to CPO the car. They normally don't do it because of the cost. They'd rather save the money to the purchaser.
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      08-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
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Thanks guys. Didn't know that about CPO but it makes sense. Thought that CPO was just a marketing thing and didn't realize dealers would have to pay to get a car certified.
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      08-19-2012, 02:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by positiveions View Post
Not true. If the mileage is low enough, they don't need to CPO the car. They normally don't do it because of the cost. They'd rather save the money to the purchaser.
My point is, regardless of the number of miles on the car, if the car has sustained certain types of damage, a BMW dealer cannot CPO the car.

One can take a risk and assume that a dealer probably wouldn't keep an un-certifiable car on his lot. Or, a used car buyer can eliminate that risk by simply asking why the car is not certified. The way I look at it, it doesn't hurt to ask.
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      08-19-2012, 03:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
My point is, regardless of the number of miles on the car, if the car has sustained certain types of damage, a BMW dealer cannot CPO the car.

One can take a risk and assume that a dealer probably wouldn't keep an un-certifiable car on his lot. Or, a used car buyer can eliminate that risk by simply asking why the car is not certified. The way I look at it, it doesn't hurt to ask.
Both are right. It costs a lot of money for the CPO warranty on M cars, but if it isn't CPO you don't have any assurances of the true condition of the car unless you have it third party examined by someone such as Auto Check or someone like that. Just a suggestion.
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      08-19-2012, 10:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
My point is, regardless of the number of miles on the car, if the car has sustained certain types of damage, a BMW dealer cannot CPO the car.
True. Nobody is arguing about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
One can take a risk and assume that a dealer probably wouldn't keep an un-certifiable car on his lot. Or, a used car buyer can eliminate that risk by simply asking why the car is not certified. The way I look at it, it doesn't hurt to ask.
It does not hurt to ask, but you are going to ask and the SA will probably not know anyway (bought at auction, dealer did not want to CPO it for any other reason, etc.) What good does it do when they say they simply didn't CPO it? Bottom line: get a pre-purchase inspection at a euro indy shop if not CPO'd and maybe do it anyway if CPO. There are a million reasons for a dealer to not CPO and as I said, it is by far the minority of M3s for sale that are CPO'd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzapie View Post
Both are right. It costs a lot of money for the CPO warranty on M cars, but if it isn't CPO you don't have any assurances of the true condition of the car unless you have it third party examined by someone such as Auto Check or someone like that. Just a suggestion.
Yes, get a PPI. Don't use one of those eBay-type services, find a local and reputable indy euro shop and pay them to do it. Hopefully they have a paint meter as that will be a dead give away for prior damage that doesn't show from underneath.

Good luck and don't sweat non-CPO'd M3s.
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      08-19-2012, 10:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3buckeye View Post
I disagree. The fact that it is not CPO is nothing to worry about, and you can likely pay the dealer to CPO if you want it.

Most dealers will not certify a car that is less than two model years old as it has at least 2 years left of factory warranty. It does not at all mean the car was wrecked or anything like that. It costs BMW and the dealer $$$ to certify the car (up front a little, and down the road maybe a lot for BMW if the car is in for CPO repairs all the time). It also hikes the price of the car. It would make no sense to tack on 2 or 3k more to a 2011 with low miles when that gets you close to a price of a '12 or a '13. The flip side is it gives you a warranty/CPO for six years/100k miles. Maybe if every '11 or '12 with 15k or less miles had that then nobody would buy a '13 as the warranty/CPO on the '11 or '12 would be unbeatable.

BMWUSA website: 172 (nationwide) '08-'12 M3s for sale at BMW dealers, only 33 are certified. I highly doubt all of them have been wrecked or had extensive damage.
When I was looking last summer for a used 2010/2011 E90 M3, I found that many M3's did not have CPO due to the extra costs to the dealer. But, almost every dealer I spoke with, was willing to CPO the car if I was willing to pay $3000 for it. Dealer has to do a full checklist when they CPO the car, such as tires with new or almost new tread (I think it had to have 7/32 and BMW approved tires). Any cosmetic damage was fixed by the dealer, etc. Like others have said, the dealer would simply prefer not to do it since it would raise the purchase price, they would rather advertise a lower asking price. Marketing...

OP, ask the dealer if they are willing to CPO the car and how much? It should run the buyer about $3000 give or take to have the car CPO. $3000 for 6 year/100k to me is worth it.
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      08-20-2012, 08:52 AM   #12
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Hey all. Thanks for all your input. It's invaluable.

I did reach out to the dealer about the preowned '11 and they said the car isn't certified due to the original maintenance/warranty left AND they also said they don't certified BMW M's.
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