KW vs GC vs TCK

[CSanto]

This thread is for the guys who have EDC and would like to retain their EDC functionality.
These guys would also like height adjust ability, and want some degree of performance enhancement. 1 track day per month during the summer season.

I've read plenty of threads on the KW S/O kit, but most seem to agree that there is not much of a performance benefit to this kit.

There is also the GC option, but there is nowhere near the same number of reviews.

Then TCK makes a "Coil-over conversion" kit which is essentially the same thing.


So this is that middle ground of "not just springs" but don't need the infinitely adjustable coilovers (as well as dont want to pay for coils), and want to retain EDC.

If there is truly no benefit to these kits (other than adjusting the height) I will probably settle with Eibach springs.

I know there are many threads on each, but there are none directly comparing these three very similar options.

[chili cheese]

Subscribed.

[Porschefile]

From what I have read the GC option is the best, and includes very good camber plates. If you are tracking once a month that is fairly frequent, I do a similar rate and settled on KW CS for my purposes.

If you buy used V3's or something for under $2k they'll hold their value too, that is the way I looked at my situation. Good suspension is an investment (though not an appreciating investment ).

To address your question of whether the kits are better performers than just springs: The GC kit definitely is because it includes aggressive camber plates that cost $500 alone. Your car will turn in much better and wear the tires more evenly with some negative camber dialed in. If I was choosing between those 3 options only, GC.

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

From what I have read the GC option is the best, and includes very good camber plates. If you are tracking once a month that is fairly frequent, I do a similar rate and settled on KW CS for my purposes.

If you buy used V3's or something for under $2k they'll hold their value too, that is the way I looked at my situation. Good suspension is an investment (though not an appreciating investment ).

I've definitely been keeping my eyes open for a used set of KW V3s. Not easy to come by.

Maybe that's what I should be holding out for..

[Vegas_Sirk]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

From what I have read the GC option is the best, and includes very good camber plates. If you are tracking once a month that is fairly frequent, I do a similar rate and settled on KW CS for my purposes.

If you buy used V3's or something for under $2k they'll hold their value too, that is the way I looked at my situation. Good suspension is an investment (though not an appreciating investment ).

To address your question of whether the kits are better performers than just springs: The GC kit definitely is because it includes aggressive camber plates that cost $500 alone. Your car will turn in much better and wear the tires more evenly with some negative camber dialed in. If I was choosing between those 3 options only, GC.

The TCK kit also comes with Camber plates:

http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...Details760.cfm

both the GC and TCK kits come with linear spring rates compared to the KW kit which has progressive. Thats also something to think about.

I personally decided on the H&R Sport springs with e36 bump stops and removing the rear spring pad setup on my ZCP (cost was $175 for the springs used, + $50 for bump stops, and $5 for rubber hose to replace rear spring pads total of $230). My plan next is to add in the camber/caster plates to finish it off. I havnt tracked it but so far on the street I have been very happy with it. A buddy of mine has the same current set up I have on his E92 and hase tracked it a few times and was very happy with it, but he is also running the modified upper mounts up front which I didnt do (modified mounts add a little more travel).

[dicker]

I just installed the GC sleeve kit on my car (430lb front and 650lb) rear and hit the track yesterday. I am a decent driver (instructor for a few local track day groups) and have had some seat time in dialed in cars, and I must say that for $1,000 this kit is freaking awesome!!!!!

I ran the car with 275/35/18 NT01's squared and it was totally predictable and handled low speed and high speed bumps very well.

I have never been this happy with a budget suspension setup and have no regrets with this kit.

Edit: Regarding the KW kit, that's just for style points, if you're looking for performance go with the GC or TCK. For GC vs TCK, the TCK kit looks a little fancier, but at $375 more, I would stick with the GC kit.

[Jaron Bell]

Originally Posted by dicker

I just installed the GC sleeve kit on my car (430lb front and 650lb) rear and hit the track yesterday. I am a decent driver (instructor for a few local track day groups) and have had some seat time in dialed in cars, and I must say that for $1,000 this kit is freaking awesome!!!!!

I ran the car with 275/35/18 NT01's squared and it was totally predictable and handled low speed and high speed bumps very well.

I have never been this happy with a budget suspension setup and have no regrets with this kit.

Edit: Regarding the KW kit, that's just for style points, if you're looking for performance go with the GC or TCK. For GC vs TCK, the TCK kit looks a little fancier, but at $375 more, I would stick with the GC kit.

BUMP, good review!

[TC Kline Racing]

Couple of differences between ours and GC's:

1) We use a billet aluminum piece for the sway bar end link tabs vs GC's Steel pieces that are just welded together. Looks nicer, cleaner, lighter, and is stonger.

2) We use a high tensile VVS Alloy Springs(smaller coil spring, more compression travel) for our kit vs an Eibach Spring which is a much thicker spring which takes away from the compression travel and are heavier(adds to unsprung weight).

These difference may seem small, but we pride ourselves in the little things to make our products better

[HP Autowerks]

Originally Posted by TC Kline Racing

Couple of differences between ours and GC's:

1) We use a billet aluminum piece for the sway bar end link tabs vs GC's Steel pieces that are just welded together. Looks nicer, cleaner, lighter, and is stonger.

2) We use a high tensile VVS Alloy Springs(smaller coil spring, more compression travel) for our kit vs an Eibach Spring which is a much thicker spring which takes away from the compression travel and are heavier(adds to unsprung weight).

These difference may seem small, but we pride ourselves in the little things to make our products better

Here is the piece that could belong in an art museum. The iPhone photo doesn't show off how well this piece was designed and made.

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by TC Kline Racing

Couple of differences between ours and GC's:

1) We use a billet aluminum piece for the sway bar end link tabs vs GC's Steel pieces that are just welded together. Looks nicer, cleaner, lighter, and is stonger.

2) We use a high tensile VVS Alloy Springs(smaller coil spring, more compression travel) for our kit vs an Eibach Spring which is a much thicker spring which takes away from the compression travel and are heavier(adds to unsprung weight).

These difference may seem small, but we pride ourselves in the little things to make our products better

Can you comment on Harshness and Noise/vibrations with this kit.

I'm about to pull the trigger on the KW sleeves with E36 Bumpstops and shaved hats + the dinan rear upper shock mount kit. This way I'd get the adjustability of the KWs with the additional suspension travel.

I'm looking to go as compliant as possible for a DD.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by HREM3

Can you comment on Harshness and Noise/vibrations with this kit.

I'm about to pull the trigger on the KW sleeves with E36 Bumpstops and shaved hats + the dinan rear upper shock mount kit. This way I'd get the adjustability of the KWs with the additional suspension travel.

I'm looking to go as compliant as possible for a DD.

You don't need bumpstops with the KW kit. They come with their own shorter bumpstops.

KW will pretty much feel like stock at a lowered height. That is either a good or bad thing depending on what you are looking for. The progressive springs make it slightly softer on small bumps and slightly rougher on large bumps. It's a well engineered kit but I wanted something more performance oriented so I sold mine.

[TC Kline Racing]

Originally Posted by HREM3

Can you comment on Harshness and Noise/vibrations with this kit.

I'm about to pull the trigger on the KW sleeves with E36 Bumpstops and shaved hats + the dinan rear upper shock mount kit. This way I'd get the adjustability of the KWs with the additional suspension travel.

I'm looking to go as compliant as possible for a DD.

This kit is designed to help enhance the EDC. The reason we recommend these spring rates, is because it give the car a 'sportier' feel without sacrificing the ride quality. I would not come close to associating the word 'harsh' with this kit. It firms up the suspension a little, and helps to accommodate for the drop in ride height, all while retaining your EDC.

[Vegas_Sirk]

Do you guys recommend the camber/caster kits or will I be ok with just the camber only kit? How many of you guys are actually adjusting Caster?

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by Vegas_Sirk

Do you guys recommend the camber/caster kits or will I be ok with just the camber only kit? How many of you guys are actually adjusting Caster?

You dont need to mess with the caster. as far back as it goes on the plates should get you to within specs.

[mact3333]

I am regretting getting the GC kit...at first I really liked it but it is so bouncy on uneven surfaces...if I set EDC to stiffer modes its fine but on normal setting it is way too bouncy.

I have had many coilover kits on previous cars and none felt this bouncy.

[TC Kline Racing]

Originally Posted by mact3333

I am regretting getting the GC kit...at first I really liked it but it is so bouncy on uneven surfaces...if I set EDC to stiffer modes its fine but on normal setting it is way too bouncy.

I have had many coilover kits on previous cars and none felt this bouncy.

More than likely your springs are too stiff and the shock can't 'keep up' with the high spring rate. We recommend 400# front and 600# rear and no more than that.

[grussell]

My opinion is if you have EDC leave the suspension stock, add camber plates, alignment and track wheels and tires.

If this is not firm enough for you, go to adjustable coilovers. I think the middle ground (springs) is not worth it and you could degrade the suspension performance if you’re not careful.

If you go to coilovers you will gain potential improvement on the track at the expense of forgiveness and compliance. Also, you need more camber so if you go to coilovers without adding a lot of camber and R comps what’s the point? It all works together.

[leo95se]

I'm intrigued by this option especially since you can keep edc but agree that it has to be a matched set of springs and shock in order to work well.
So one option is tck with 400/600 springs. Yes or is this in reality too form?
What are stock spring rates?

The easiest is cover plates, which I desperately need. My track tires shoulder too quickly. Where can I buy just cover plates? Can't seem to find em :/

[bigjae1976]

If you compare companies, you know TC Kline does extensive testing with the actual cars. I have to question whether KW and GC does the same.

[Rapture]

I had the Ground Control kit on my EDC equipped car for just over a year. I couldn't wait to get that shit off my car. It fell apart twice while driving (sway bar end link hardware failure causing the links to drag on the ground; I had to purchase $40 in hardware to fix this because their hardware was substandard), made noise ALL THE TIME (squeaks, rattles, spring noise on the perch, buzzing), couldn't align it correctly due to issues with the C/C plates (even the guys at West End Alignment were surprised as they use GC components on their record holding Honda race car), Rode like utter bouncy and jolting crap, and the customer service was absolute shit to top it off!
I still to this day have $1000 worth of suspension sitting in a box in my garage because I can't sell it and don't want to deal with GC to have it fixed for resale.
I went ahead and got the KW V3 installed and haven't looked back. No noise, no falling apart, alignment is in check even though I am on stock top hats and am set very low, and rides very well for a slammed car.

All in all, I do not miss the EDC controls; the KWs make up for it and then some, especially when comparing to the Ground Control sleeve system.

Hope this helps

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by Rapture

I had the Ground Control kit on my EDC equipped car for just over a year. I couldn't wait to get that shit off my car. It fell apart twice while driving (sway bar end link hardware failure causing the links to drag on the ground; I had to purchase $40 in hardware to fix this because their hardware was substandard), made noise ALL THE TIME (squeaks, rattles, spring noise on the perch, buzzing), couldn't align it correctly due to issues with the C/C plates (even the guys at West End Alignment were surprised as they use GC components on their record holding Honda race car), Rode like utter bouncy and jolting crap, and the customer service was absolute shit to top it off!
I still to this day have $1000 worth of suspension sitting in a box in my garage because I can't sell it and don't want to deal with GC to have it fixed for resale.
I went ahead and got the KW V3 installed and haven't looked back. No noise, no falling apart, alignment is in check even though I am on stock top hats and am set very low, and rides very well for a slammed car.

All in all, I do not miss the EDC controls; the KWs make up for it and then some, especially when comparing to the Ground Control sleeve system.

Hope this helps

I'm reading more and more about people trading their sleeve kits for KW V3s

[TC Kline Racing]

Originally Posted by leo95se

I'm intrigued by this option especially since you can keep edc but agree that it has to be a matched set of springs and shock in order to work well.
So one option is tck with 400/600 springs. Yes or is this in reality too form?
What are stock spring rates?

The easiest is cover plates, which I desperately need. My track tires shoulder too quickly. Where can I buy just cover plates? Can't seem to find em :/

OEM spring rates are 180f/550R - So the biggest jump is in the front, in our opinion, it's just right and not too firm.

Do you mean camber plates??

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If you compare companies, you know TC Kline does extensive testing with the actual cars. I have to question whether KW and GC does the same.

We ABSOLUTELY test all of our products, and almost all the products that we sell from other suppliers. If we didn't, it would be hard to give advice on car set-up, without experiencing it first hand.

Anyone can feel free to call, PM, or email if you ever have any questions about our products or car set-up...that's what we are here to do