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      08-07-2012, 08:30 PM   #133
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It's kind of odd that the same people that are worried about the quality of future BMW's made in Mexico probably dont have a problem with the quality of the meat,poultry,produce (fruit and vegetables) found in this country that are handled by Mexicans.
some people here should visit a meat packing plant,nothern CA produce fields etc.

I guess to some what you drive is more important than what you put in your body.
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      08-07-2012, 08:42 PM   #134
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Don't f.... do this FWD!
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      08-07-2012, 08:49 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
I like the idea of the person putting my car together having 6 weeks of paid vacation. Having a sense of national or at least local (Bavarian) pride, whether or not they are german born is a plus.
Do you think the robots on the 3 series assembly line in Mexico wont have the same sense of national pride? The 3 series isnt exactly handbuilt.
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      08-07-2012, 09:28 PM   #136
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FWD AND MEXICAN BUILT?! Double Fail!
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      08-07-2012, 09:38 PM   #137
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There is this widespread mental masturbation by some of the less informned VW owners, where they blame the shitty reliability of their cars on Mexican assembly.

Except the German built GTIs and Passats are just as unreliable as the Mexican built Jettas.

Truth is that a brand new, state of the art factory in Mexico will probably have a higher standard of assembly than the old German plants, much like the S. African plants do.

It's nice to see BMW owners repeating that BS here though.
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      08-07-2012, 10:02 PM   #138
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Quote:
VW did have problems with their quality here in the 90's and early 00's. It was a VW problem not a Mexico problem. They have since improved their quality a lot. All Jettas & Beetles are built here for worldwide consumption.

Itīs not as if VW is the only manufacturer operating out of Mexico. As has been mentioned, Ford (Fusion & the equivalent Lincoln), GM (Cadillac SUV's), Nissan (Versa), Fiat/Chrysler (500C previously PT Cruiser, Neon, etc), Honda, etc all build cars here.

Many Mexican plants (not that particular VW one) have won worldwide quality awards beating plants elsewhere (including the U.S.).

Itīs up to BMW to do a quality job here. They already do with their armored vehicles.
Most of the cars you mention being built in Mexico are low-end models or the lower end of American luxury vehicles that cannot compete with better vehicles in their class except on price. PT Cruiser? Versa? Definitely built to a price. Lincoln's Fusion and the Cadillac SRX are fair to middling offerings.

Note that BMW is talking about building their new FWD models in Mexico and probably volume entry-level 3-series like the Munich plant now builds. As for the armored vehicles, this is a custom application that is most likely built in a low-volume setting using skilled craftsmen vs. the average assembly plant.

I don't doubt your claim that Mexico is an up-and-coming automotive manufacturing country, but I suggest that for many the made-in-Mexico label will carry a stigma for now. I remember when "made in Japan" meant cheap, shoddy goods, even after that country embraced statistical process control and were building high quality goods. There may just be a lag between perception and reality.
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      08-07-2012, 10:05 PM   #139
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The comments on this thread range from humorous to downright insulting. While I would love to see BMW expand their US production, the reasons given in the announcement make a lot of sense given the currency fluctuations in the EuroZone. Producing a vehicle in Mexico has NOTHING to do with said vehicle's quality. VW has never been known for high quality vehicles, regardless of where they are produced.

Regarding European Delivery, what happens today? Guess what...3-Series are produced in Rosslyn, South Africa too. Does one have to fly to SA to pick up their cars on safari instead of in Muenchen? Of course not. Expanding production to another location has nothing to do with the Euro Delivery experience.
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      08-07-2012, 10:25 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoptb View Post
The comments on this thread range from humorous to downright insulting. While I would love to see BMW expand their US production, the reasons given in the announcement make a lot of sense given the currency fluctuations in the EuroZone.
This man has it right.

Globalization of production will allow BMW to have a better handle on its FX risk.

Imagine if Germany decides to leave the EuroZone and introduce the DM? It will skyrocket in value, which makes all GM-produced cars go up in price. An E92 M3 starts at something like $85K USD in Germany. If production costs go up rapidly, you can bet that BMW will pass the increases to the customer!

Now, with that being said, it's a bit of a leap saying that BMW will suddenly start making M-cars in Mexico. My guess is that the volumes are small enough such that the Germany will keep M-car production while farming out the lower-end 1 & 3s to Mexico. On the other hand, even if the M3 is made in Mexico, look on the bright side: no more ridiculous 8 weeks from production to delivery. :-)
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      08-07-2012, 11:21 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyu
American car owner: U.S. assembled only
Reality: Made in Mexico
Japanese car owner: Japan assembled only
Reality: Made in U.S.
European car owner: Germany assembled only
Reality: Made in U.S., South Africa, South America

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on in terms of car ownership, people just like a false sense of quality knowing that their car was produced in the car brand's country of origin. It's not like BMW is contracting local factories in Mexico in order to build their 1 & 3-series where they make cars on one side of the factory and produce meth & cocaine on the other; BMW is pumping 100s of millions into building a new plant. If the quality of the cars in Mexico are poor then that's BMW's fault as even without strict government regulation if BMW wishes to market their cars as being upmarket and charge a premium price for it then they need to self regulate.

PS: Why does the U.S. need factory jobs more than Mexico? Why should BMW build another plant in the U.S.? BMW has absolutely no obligation to the U.S. nor should BMW give American workers preference over people in other countries. This thread is one bad comment away from "those dirty <insert people of X country> took our jobs."
Let's see, we butter their bread but they prefer to reward Mexicans who do little for them. Ok, you're right, they have NO obligation help us, I get it. I also have NO obligation to continue to support them either Will they miss me? No. Will the workers building the ATS appreciate me, oh yea.

It's so funny how some use the race card so easy. It's not racist to expect that if BMW is coming all this way to build a plant, that they should come here and not go to our back yard and give us the finger and a big "fuck you"!!

If they were building a plant in Zimbabwe, I'd not be upset, I'd figure that fits their needs in that part of the world. But here in NA, were too close to not be insulted.

I'm not worried about the quality, it will be fine, it's the principle that matters.
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      08-08-2012, 12:51 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
Let's see, we butter their bread but they prefer to reward Mexicans who do little for them.
Not sure what you mean by this but I assume it is a reference to the hard work put out by the factory workers in SC. I agree that people in SC are hard working and create cars that are on par with those in Germany, I should know I bought a 2nd gen X3 and was one of the first people in Washington State to have one. However, BMW pays them a wage to build cars, sure they butter BMW's bread but they're doing it out of their own free will and get paid money for their services.


Quote:
It's so funny how some use the race card so easy. It's not racist to expect that if BMW is coming all this way to build a plant, that they should come here and not go to our back yard and give us the finger and a big "fuck you"!!
In no way was my last sentence accusing anyone of being racist. It was a reference to how Americans have a perception that we own all the jobs, how it's our resources, our ideas. There are currently zero production plants in Mexico that are outright owned by BMW, there's the Toluca plant but that's a partnership between Mexican investors and BMW where they produce cars only for the local market, if American investors want to have a similar partnership with BMW I bet they'd let the investors build as many plants in the US as they want.

However, since 1992 BMW has invested $2.2 billion (wikipedia) into the Spartanburg plant and continues to expand production there which not only benefits the 7000 working directly for them but indirectly like the individuals who constructed the plant and restaurants who feed these thousands of individuals. I honestly don't understand how you and others can say that BMW is giving Mexico favoritism when they have already done so much for SC and the American people, in no way is this article saying that they're moving American jobs in SC somewhere else, if anything people in Germany should be worried about losing jobs, not Americans.
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      08-08-2012, 01:34 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by templarklimek View Post
I provide 35 combat vets good paying jobs. Why not replace them with cheap foriegn labor and an extra 250K in my pocket.
That is a great thing that you are doing as the government sure as hell isn't doing it's part in taking care of veterans.

Quote:
Yup, i must be a real jerk to want a company to create good paying jobs in the country in which they sell that product to.
Well to be honest the purposed Mexico plant isn't producing cars for US consumption only. As mentioned it's producing cars that will eventually be exported worldwide. If BMW saves a few pesos by building inferior cars in Mexico it will eventually come back to bite them so go ahead and let them. As American car companies know it is easy to save a couple dollars but extremely difficult to salvage a brand.

Quote:
Has white guilt/anti-west become so mainstream that we can't even look after own own counties best interest? YES I want those good jobs here, YES I'm looking after my own interest. Just like the guy from Mexico on here. He wants those jobs for his people.
To start, I'm not white nor do I harbor anti-west sentiments, I was born in the US and this is the only country I'd want to live in. Similar to yourself of course I'd like it if BMW built a new plant in the US as it would not only benefit me but the country as a whole. However, the point I'm trying to get across is that often times people in the US have this perception that we own everything and that others "owe" us. The government and we as Americans got ourselves into this recession not BMW, BMW doesn't owe the American people anything, they have no obligation to create more jobs in the US so I'm not going to be angry if they decide to build a plant somewhere else.

As you said it yourself BMW is a for profit company meaning they don't have to be charitable. You have the right to not buy their cars if you feel that the quality of their Mexican made cars are not up to par and I suggest others to do the same. But as others have mentioned the cars will mostly be made by robots so the quality should be the same no matter which country it is being produced in.

In the grand scheme of things if BMW produces their 1 & 3-series in Mexico the average buyer would never notice the difference, your typical BMW owner would never read the sticker that clearly labels where their car is made even though it's visible every time they get in to drive their car.
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      08-08-2012, 02:19 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmzcee View Post
Poor move by BMW. Even worse than Spartanburg. This solidifies why I will not purchase any newer BMW models in the foreseeable future.
My Spartanburg-build M is just as solid as my german-built M was.

VW has had lots of issues with Hecho en Mexico cars. But then, I had a horribly unreliable VW that was built in Germany. So, who knows.
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      08-08-2012, 07:23 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightz71
+1 on the last two comments. It is not about where the car is built but how it is built. BMW will not disappoint. My wallet will be happier too. Win Win.
+1
BMW is a company that usually knows what they're doing - especially about the quality of their cars. This will occur in 2016/17, right? The world will change plenty of times! I don't get people who say they won't buy bimmers anymore just because SOME of them are made in Mexico. :
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      08-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #146
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wtf, i will never buy any car made in Mexico....i rather take European delivery...
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      08-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
The X5M, X6M, X5, X6, and X3 are all built in the US. I believe some of the engines are built in Germany and shipped over for final production though.
All BMW engines are either built in Graz, Austria or Munich, then shipped wherever for assembly, same will be true for Mexico.
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      08-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
this thread has me thinking about some south park episodes
Lol...you're going the wrong way!!!!
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      08-08-2012, 10:30 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogDan View Post
Plenty of great, reliable cars are assembled in Mexico.

BMW will do it right. The Mexican BMWs will probably be better than the crap they build here in the US (their SUVs).
Along with your model Z4 built in Spartanburg.
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      08-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Well the m3 that I am driving is German

The engine is made in Germany
And so is the chassis
As are most of the electronics
The transmission? German too
75% of the parts, are german

So what was your point again?
Component/Supplier content in a vehicle really has to do with final assembly point.

OEM's get taxed based on amount of localized content (locally sourced suppliers) in relation to the assembly plant. They also need to have a certain % of the total vehicle with parts produced locally for custom compliance. The more you import parts, the higher duties you pay and the less you can make the statement of "made in NAFTA".

The majority of your components are German, because your final vehicle assembly point was German. Don't think that a vehicle made in the Mexico will have the majority of it's components/parts built in Germany. Some of the powertrain might be sourced from Europe, but there are also discussions of the German automakers building powertrain plants locally (some joint ventures with other OEM's).
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      08-08-2012, 12:32 PM   #151
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      08-08-2012, 01:34 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubenhocker View Post
All BMW engines are either built in Graz, Austria or Munich, then shipped wherever for assembly
Not quite.

The new BMW N13 4 cyl turbo petrol engines are built at the BMW engine plant at Hams Hall here in England.
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      08-08-2012, 03:25 PM   #153
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LOL at M models coming from Mexico, that would be the day.
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      08-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #154
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goodbye bmw

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Originally Posted by Shane550X
NOOOOOOOOO
as predicted my first and last new BMW.
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