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      08-08-2012, 07:01 AM   #1
gsrbri
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Track brake pad/rotor wear - your results?

My 2011 E90 ZCP is a daily driver, but sees quite a few track days. Since I purchased the car in July 2011, I've done 8 days (6 at New Hampshire MS and two at Mt. Tremblant). I run stock pads on the street and Pagid RS-19 yellows front and RS-7 black on the rear when on-track. I'm an intermediate-level driver and get into my brakes very hard each lapping session.

After 8 days, my Pagid pads are still good for probably two more track days (wear has been excellent). The rotors, both front/rear, are exhibiting no "lip" after 13,000 miles of spirited driving on the road and track. The Pagid pads, as it turns out, bed very well at the track w/no real need to pre-bed, and I've installed the factory pads directly after being on track, and, as long as you don't hammer the brakes too much, the stock pads remove the bedded material from the Pagids and wipe the rotor clean. No pedal pulsations or anything.

I had a friend that drives an E90 M3 w/PFC-01 pads drive my car at Mt. Tremblant and his impression was that the PFC's offer a little more bite at the limit, but the Pagids are very good. He is seeing much more wear w/the PFC-01s, both on the pads and rotors.

What are your experiences?

-Brian

Last edited by gsrbri; 08-08-2012 at 07:02 AM. Reason: misspelling subject
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      08-08-2012, 08:10 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
My 2011 E90 ZCP is a daily driver, but sees quite a few track days. Since I purchased the car in July 2011, I've done 8 days (6 at New Hampshire MS and two at Mt. Tremblant). I run stock pads on the street and Pagid RS-19 yellows front and RS-7 black on the rear when on-track. I'm an intermediate-level driver and get into my brakes very hard each lapping session.

After 8 days, my Pagid pads are still good for probably two more track days (wear has been excellent). The rotors, both front/rear, are exhibiting no "lip" after 13,000 miles of spirited driving on the road and track. The Pagid pads, as it turns out, bed very well at the track w/no real need to pre-bed, and I've installed the factory pads directly after being on track, and, as long as you don't hammer the brakes too much, the stock pads remove the bedded material from the Pagids and wipe the rotor clean. No pedal pulsations or anything.

I had a friend that drives an E90 M3 w/PFC-01 pads drive my car at Mt. Tremblant and his impression was that the PFC's offer a little more bite at the limit, but the Pagids are very good. He is seeing much more wear w/the PFC-01s, both on the pads and rotors.

What are your experiences?

-Brian
I ran my 08 car with both Hawk HP+'s & Pagid RS19's for the 3 years that I had my car and my rotors were still in spec after 3 yrs,54000 kms & 40 track days when I sold the car.I use a Stoptech BBK 380/355 on my new car and after about 25 days I changed the front rotor rings due to heat checking not wear.I am using a RS14/29 combination with this setup.
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      08-08-2012, 09:15 AM   #3
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We are a Performance Friction dealer, so we have a little bit of knowledge with them. The 01's are going to be a more aggressive pad and will, in fact, eat rotors a little quicker than some other compounds. Tell your friend that he should look at the PFC 08 compound. It is more of an endurance pad that will last longer, not eat rotors as quickly, and still give good bite and torque.

If the Pagid's are working for you, I would stick with them. It's good to get into different cars, if you can, to see what other brake pads feel like too, so you can compare. Hawk DTC's (60' or 70's) are a good pad for the track as well.
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      08-08-2012, 09:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
I had a friend that drives an E90 M3 w/PFC-01 pads drive my car at Mt. Tremblant and his impression was that the PFC's offer a little more bite at the limit, but the Pagids are very good. He is seeing much more wear w/the PFC-01s, both on the pads and rotors.

What are your experiences?

-Brian
Brian,

I have used PF01s for 3 track events. Each weekend, my pads are almost down to the backing plates (with 1-2mm to spare). Used at Summit Point, Watkins Glen and Summit Point (in that order). Two weeks ago, the pad material literally came off from the backing plate and was dragging on the rotors!!

From my understanding, its the heat which is killing these pads. Long and short, if you go b**s out with 01s in this car, they turn to dust quickly. Not sure if its the heat, drilled rotors, weight or a combination. But this is unacceptable to me (one set of pads each weekend).

I dont have ducting and the car is completely stock just pads and 18*10 wheels with Toyo RA1s (camber pins removed). My fluid holds up fairly well (Motul 600 and I do a quick bleed after each event).

I am going to order the Pagid Yellow next time around. Heard the PF08s are somewhat better?

Lutfy
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      08-08-2012, 10:34 AM   #5
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I had a hard time wearing out my original rotors with various track pads (dtc 70, raybestos st 43, pfc01) and two competitive NASA tt seasons. They were replaced at the 30k service. The moral of the story is that the oem rotors are pretty darn good.
I'm also finding that my 380mm stoptechs are holding up well but will most likely be replaced due to cracking before they wear out. I had some pretty bad luck with the pfc replacement rotors as well.
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      08-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
I had a hard time wearing out my original rotors with various track pads (dtc 70, raybestos st 43, pfc01) and two competitive NASA tt seasons. They were replaced at the 30k service. The moral of the story is that the oem rotors are pretty darn good.
I'm also finding that my 380mm stoptechs are holding up well but will most likely be replaced due to cracking before they wear out. I had some pretty bad luck with the pfc replacement rotors as well.
RickyBobby, have you heard of Coleman Machines? They make rotors for NASCARS and Prodrive. I have used them in the past (for the 2 piece rotor rings). They can sell you a set heat treated no slotted/cross drilled and are REALLY affordable. Send them your current rotors once (worn out is fine) they can mimic it and will save it in the system for future shipment.

Trey is a great guy there.

There, saved you over 50% in replacement cost

I intend to do the same with my stock rotors once the maint. program runs out. Send them the stock ones, get back 2 piece custom rotors which a) will last much longer b) reduced cost to replace as all I would need would be rings.

Lutfy
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      08-10-2012, 06:27 AM   #7
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Hey Lutfy
you know im using the pagids. i like them, but dont/cant drive nearly as hard as you. wore a set down at nj last weekend, but they lasted around 10 track weekends, so not terrible.
i dont think they give the same initial bite as the 01s.

ps - ill be at watkins, i hope in late sept. you in?
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      08-10-2012, 07:15 AM   #8
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Warped my stock rotors and replaced with AP BBK. Last season used Mintex F3R pads in front and Mintex Extreme in the rear. I replaced my AP front rotors after two seasons. This year I am using Pagid Yellows front and rear and love them. They are predicable, no fade, and wear evenly.
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      08-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #9
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No one has commented on actual rotor measurements. I have 10,000 street pad miles on my rotors and 6 track days with Pagid RS-19s and my front rotors are at 29.33 mm (wear limit 26 mm something).
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      08-10-2012, 09:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo95se View Post
Hey Lutfy
you know im using the pagids. i like them, but dont/cant drive nearly as hard as you. wore a set down at nj last weekend, but they lasted around 10 track weekends, so not terrible.
i dont think they give the same initial bite as the 01s.

ps - ill be at watkins, i hope in late sept. you in?
I am going to swap to 08s or even the Pagids and remove the darn backing plate behind the rotor. 10 as in TEN weekends? Brilliant!!!

When pushed, the stock brake system now does (slightly) inspire confidence for me. Going full tilt, the problem is pad turns to dust and at NJ, the pad material came off the backing plate (new set, day 2) and chunks of it disintegrated. Not cool.

I'll be at Glen with GVC

I have a set of 2 PF01 front sets which I may be selling now to replace with something that lasts longer.

Lutfy
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      08-10-2012, 10:19 AM   #11
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StopTech ST60 380mm front, ST40 355mm rear. After 16,500+ miles of combined street and track driving--12 or so HPDE events which corresponds to 18 or so track days--and two sets of ST Street Perf pads and one set of Pagid RS29s, I'm about to replace my front rotors (actually just the friction rings, since I can keep the rotor hats). I had been measuring my rotor thickness recently, and the original front rotor thickness of 35mm has only gone down about 1mm (2mm wear is the recommended replacement trigger). But I wasn't appreciating the amount of scalloping or lip that was developing on the rotors until my shop pointed it out to me. So I'll be able to get one more event out of this front set of rotors and Pagids, then it's replacement time. Obviously the front pads and rotors are wearing about twice as fast as the rears.

The experience above with the PF 01 pads wearing completely down on stock brakes after one track weekend is interesting. Perhaps the better heat management of a BBK would prevent this? Also, there might be something to be said for Pagid's pad design of having small pegs securing the pad material to the backing plate in addition to adhesive--this is intended to prevent the pad material from delaminating or falling off the backing plate when it wears down.
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      08-10-2012, 10:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
RickyBobby, have you heard of Coleman Machines? They make rotors for NASCARS and Prodrive. I have used them in the past (for the 2 piece rotor rings). They can sell you a set heat treated no slotted/cross drilled and are REALLY affordable. Send them your current rotors once (worn out is fine) they can mimic it and will save it in the system for future shipment.

Trey is a great guy there.

There, saved you over 50% in replacement cost

I intend to do the same with my stock rotors once the maint. program runs out. Send them the stock ones, get back 2 piece custom rotors which a) will last much longer b) reduced cost to replace as all I would need would be rings.

Lutfy
Do you have a link? Coleman Machine (at least the first one that comes up) is farm supply and Coleman Racing is out of MI.
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      08-10-2012, 04:05 PM   #13
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I just installed ST60 and ST40 Stoptech BBK new out of the box and ran one weekend at Summit Point on brand new PF01 pads. I push the car running 1:27-1:30s lap times so pretty hard on the brakes.

Is it normal for the rotors to look like this after one weekend?
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      08-10-2012, 04:41 PM   #14
arter
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Have stock rotors and have been using Pagid yellows for 26 track days so far. Just replaced front rotors ( initial 30mm, min 28.4 mm, I was at 28.8 mm) as I saw some cracking around the holes. I was switching to my 3rd set of pagids ( averaging 13 days a set) and decided to switch them with the rotors. Front Rotor cost ~$615 from Turner as DIY.

Love the pagid yellows and happy with stock rotors and brakes so far.
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Last edited by arter; 08-11-2012 at 08:13 PM.
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      08-11-2012, 03:28 PM   #15
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2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
The PF01s are not endurance pads. I went through a set on my stock brakes in 5 days at the track.
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      08-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #16
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Pagids & stock rotors

Is anyone running stock rotors with the Pagids on the street / track?

Wondering about noise for daily driving?
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      08-12-2012, 09:48 AM   #17
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Pagids work very well but squeal like a pig. Unless you do not mind sounding like a garbage truck, then you will not want to daily drive them.
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      08-13-2012, 07:19 AM   #18
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Rotor photo

I'd check w/the manufacturer, but the pad material that is bedded on the rotor in the photo looks a bit odd, but not all that bad. Maybe a bit intermittent? Which pads are you using? My Pagid RS-19 (front) and RS-7 (rear) pads bed-in w/a good bluish-grey deposit that is very uniform around the rotor (stock M3 rotors).

What did you follow for a bed-in procedure? I'd contact the rotor mfr and send them the photo and get their feedback.

-Brian
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      08-13-2012, 08:02 AM   #19
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GSRBRI - Thanks for the feedback. Those were PF01 pads all the way around on my Stoptech rotors. The mechanic at the local shop said he bedded them for me when he installed. Not sure I believe him now.
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      08-13-2012, 08:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP M3 View Post
Is anyone running stock rotors with the Pagids on the street / track?

Wondering about noise for daily driving?
I did on my other car and they are fairly noisy when cold,but nothing like when I had Hawk HP+'s on.The Pagids are quiet on the street with my ST60/40 setup on my new car.
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      08-13-2012, 09:00 AM   #21
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My first year I switched between my stock pads and my pagids about 8 times

This year I have just left the pagids on around town. Not that noticeable most of the time, but it will squeak once in a while
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      08-13-2012, 09:58 AM   #22
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Changing Pads

How difficult and what tools do I need to change by pads myself on stock rotors?
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