Subaru BRZ Concept STI - Amazing!!!

[GoingTooFast]

The sporty suspension did an excellent job of absorbing all of the irregularities of these old roads. The ride is quite comfortable actually, much better than that of an Infiniti G37s coupe for instance; it does not beat you up.

I would like to address this particular quote which refers to what is now regarded as a general consensus about the Toyobaru ride quality despite its clear sport character.

In fact, this comes as a VERY positive side effect of the Toyobaru's ultra low center of gravity... why?!

Because with a very low center of gravity there is NO great body movements to deal with in the first place which is further enhanced by the Toyobaru's low weight, so the suspension can be MUCH more ride compliant without compromise the car handling. It is worth mentioning that without the boxer engine that wouldn't be possible.

Isn't this clever engineering?!

[GoingTooFast]

The road version of the following engine is the kind of engine that in a boxer configuration should be installed in the Toyobaru... I will keep asking for it - 1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged :

Commenting on the announcement of Honda's new racing engine HR412E, Daisuke Horiuchi, the WTCC Development Project Leader at Honda R&D said:

“In the continuous technological development of an internal combustion engine, the thermal efficiency is the essential key for improvement. And a race engine is not an exception. This HR412E was born from such thought process: aiming for higher efficiency.“

“The HR412E heralds a new generation of high performance racing engines from Honda. All engineers at the R&D centre in Tochigi have worked hard to develop a race engine that will deliver great driveability to our racing drivers, with no compromise on peak power performance.“

“We believe the innovations that have led to this revolutionary engine will also lead to benefits beyond the race track, helping us to further increase the efficiency of our road car engines.“

[VinnieAces]

why is there so much hype over this thing? this thread is ALWAYS at the top

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by VinnieAces

why is there so much hype over this thing? this thread is ALWAYS at the top

Its always at the top because the shill OP sees to it.
He alone posts several times a day to keep it there, w/o many posts by other members. A thread unto himself.

This mediocre car doesnt deserve this much attention. Its a new car so its talked about some but I bet the little attention it is getting will quickly fade away and it will become just another small, ho hum insignificant car.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Its always at the top because the shill OP sees to it.
He alone posts several times a day to keep it there, w/o many posts by other members. A thread unto himself.

This mediocre car doesnt deserve this much attention. Its a new car so its talked about some but I bet the little attention it is getting will quickly fade away and it will become just another small, ho hum insignificant car.

[Ricfutures]

Originally Posted by NYC6

This mediocre car doesnt deserve this much attention. Its a new car so its talked about some but I bet the little attention it is getting will quickly fade away and it will become just another small, ho hum insignificant car.

It's a very significant leap forward for this market segment.

[GoingTooFast]

At the end of 2010 Autocar announced that:

Honda is set to provide its CR-Z with an all-new, turbocharged four-cylinder petrol engine option as part of plans to broaden the compact coupé’s appeal in key world markets, including the UK.

Currently available with just the one engine option — a hybrid that mates a 112bhp 1.5-litre petrol engine with a 14bhp electric motor — the CR-Z is earmarked to receive an all-new turbocharged 1.6-litre powerplant that is currently undergoing development at Honda’s Tochigi R&D centre.

The new engine, which is also planned for the Jazz, Civic and Accord, forms an integral part of a downsizing program instigated at Honda. With forced induction and Honda’s patented VTEC-i fully variable camshaft timing system, it is aimed at providing the performance of a typical 2.0-litre engine from a capacity of just 1.6 litres.

Autocar sources in Japan say the new engine is likely to come in two guises: a standard 160bhp model and a highly tuned 200bhp version aimed at matching the now defunct 2.0-litre VTEC engine in the Civic Type R. This more potent spec is likely to form the basis of a CR-Z Type R, tentatively due out late next year.

In that same year a CR-Z Hybrid R Concept had already been shown bolting a turbocharger onto the 1.5 litre engine, with the IMA motor assist system upgraded to one of a higher capacity as well. The result was 200 horsepower and about 238Nm of torque, which puted it around the same kind of output as a Civic Type R:







Following that concept, three more concepts appear in 2011:

a) The 197bhp and 158 lb-ft Honda CR-Z Mugen retaining the same 1.5-litre hybrid unit as the standard car but now it got a supercharger, re-mapped ECU, wider tracks and stiffer springs. Mugen also detached 50kg from the chassis, replaced the bonnet with a carbon-fibre one and bolted on lightweight Mugen alloys to achieve 1080kg curb weight. Its 0-62 mph time was 6.6 seconds. The supercharger mated to the 1.5-liter engine (which retains the hybrid electric system) could easily make 181 lb-ft of torque for an even faster acceleration.

“The idea was to use the significant advantage of the early torque [1000 rpm] provided by the Honda IMA electric motor, then increase the torque available from the petrol engine gradually, to first maintain and then increase this,” says Colin Whittamore from Mugen Euro. “A supercharger and complementary electronics allow us to very neatly map the IMA to the extra power and torque of the engine in a unique package, giving a smooth and integrated powerful driving experience.”

b) The later two concepts with the same supercharged engine - CR-Z Mugen RR.










So, after so much experimenting and with the new Honda's racing HR412E engine being a reality it's pretty obvious that a turbocharged 1.6-litre four-cylinder CR-Z Type-R will be a VERY likely possibility in the next year or even at the end of this year. The Honda's lightweight 2+2 Coupe will be aimed right at the Toyobaru's heart which means that the Toyobaru has to adopt an equally torquier engine if it wants to level the playing field... which, in turn, means a 1.6-litre turbocharged four-cylinder boxer engine!

Is it making sense to you now?!

[Red Bread]

I won't pretend to have read all of that Honda stuff, but unless you drive it in reverse, how is it a competitor to the BRZ?

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I won't pretend to have read all of that Honda stuff, but unless you drive it in reverse, how is it a competitor to the BRZ?

It's lightweight, it's cheap and they want it to be FUN... besides :

Nissan to rival Toyota GT 86 with Juke based sports car

(...) executives have finally given the green light for a compact sports car known in house as the "Mini-Z." It's not a new rear-drive Silvia/240SX -- that project was cancelled in late 2008 during the financial crisis. Instead, it's a compact, front-drive-based sports car that will be aimed squarely at the Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ.

Also, it don't need to be RWD to be fast and fun:

[Levi]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Also, it don't need to be RWD to be fast and fun:

Renault Megane RS

Fast but not fun.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Levi

Fast but not fun.

Ha, exactly. I'd rather have a slow rwd car than a fast fwd car.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

Fast but not fun.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Ha, exactly. I'd rather have a slow rwd car than a fast fwd car.

You must be kidding me...

[Levi]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

You must be kidding me...

No, a friend of my brother had one (had, because he crashed) and it was fast but not fun.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

No, a friend of my brother had one (had, because he crashed) and it was fast but not fun.

Levi,

Fun is not always about going sideways (or drifting)... fun is FUNDAMENTALLY about your actions on the steering wheel, throttle, brakes and the gear box translating into exact movements of the car in the RIGHT PROPORTION to those actions.

You can achieve this either with AWD, FWD or RWD... albeit it's much easier to do it with FR (Front-engine, Rear-wheel-drive layout) as the Toyobaru SO brilliantly demonstrates.

The Renault Megane RS is the best FWD car in the market today (it's a shame that you guys in the US can't test drive it). In the right hands it's fun alright... a different kind of fun, but fun nonetheless (see from minute 04:00):





The Megane RS with only 265 hp is capable of a Nürburgring lap time that the 1M (which was made for sideways fun) and its 340 hp can only dream of... did you ever ask yourself why?!

Tip: The driver that you see on the Nürburgring lap time video is driving only with his fingertips on the steering wheel!!!

[johanness]

GoingTooFast... Can you stfu yet?

Maybe if no one fuels this 16yr old's obsession by replying... He'll eventually run out of gas.

No 1M, no P-car, loads of bs. Seek help

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Greenkirby21

why wasn't the 128i included in that comparison!

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The 128i is not available in the UK... what best resembles the 128i is the 125i with the 6 cylinder engine and 218 hp.

Here it is... the comparo you asked for and from a german magazine (AutoBild)! I'm affraid it's another win for the Toyobaru :

BMW 125i vs Toyota GT86

It may sound surprising, but comparing the two opponents as sports cars, there can be only one winner: the Toyota GT 86. BMW 125i coupe makes for the more civilized package for everyday life and its engine is a monument in its own right. The better sports car comes from Japan, though. The GT 86 is tuned consistently to dynamic with ultra-agile temperament and precise handling, driving pleasure that does not have to cost 50,000 euros and/or require at least 300 hp. It works without turbo, active suspension and high-tech overkill. Lightweight, rear-wheel drive and high-revving naturally aspirated engine: The old concept still rocks.

[GoingTooFast]

Same magazine, same reviwer (Steve Sutcliffe - a former racing driver, currently working for Autocar)... two different cars, what does he say?!

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

No, a friend of my brother had one (had, because he crashed) and it was fast but not fun.

Levi,

I forgot to ask you, what does your brother's friend think about the Megane RS' throttle response?

I would like to give you some specs about two engines with the exact same max. power output because I'm wondering what would be your choice... one is NA and the other is turbocharged:

................... Porsche Boxster (981).................... Megane RS (265) Trophy
Max. Power... 265 hp (6700 rpm) ......................... 265 hp (5500 rpm)
Max. Torque.. 280 Nm(4500-6500 rpm) ................. 360 Nm(3000-5000 rpm)
Redline......... 7800 rpm ..................................... 6500 rpm
Capacity....... 2706 cc ...................................... 1998 cc
Compression.. 12.5............................................ 8.6
Fuel injection. Direct injection............................. Multipoint sequential
Weight......... 1385 kg ...................................... 1462 kg
0-100 km/h... 5.8 s (manual) .............................. 6.0 s
Max. speed... 264 km/h ..................................... 255 km/h
Consumption. 8.2 l/100 km ................................. 8.2 l/100 km
CO2.............192 g/km...................................... 190 g/km


Forget about the cars in question for a second, who in his perfect mind would trade that HUGE torque advantage and an OK throttle response for a better throttle response and 1300 rpm plus?!

[GoingTooFast]

So, what does all that torque advantage of the Megane RS really mean?


Two things...


1. Porsche needed to move up to the 3.4l engine from the Boxster S to match the Megane RS' max. torque:


................... Porsche Boxster S ........................ Megane RS (265) Trophy
Max. Power... 315 hp (6700 rpm) ......................... 265 hp (5500 rpm)
Max. Torque.. 360 Nm(4500-5800 rpm) ................. 360 Nm(3000-5000 rpm)
Redline......... 7800 rpm ..................................... 6500 rpm
Capacity....... 3436 cc ...................................... 1998 cc
Compression.. 12.5............................................ 8.6
Fuel injection. Direct injection............................. Multipoint sequential
Weight......... 1395 kg ...................................... 1462 kg
0-100 km/h... 5.1 s (manual) .............................. 6.0 s
Max. speed... 279 km/h ..................................... 255 km/h
Consumption. 8.8 l/100 km ................................. 8.2 l/100 km
CO2............ 206 g/km...................................... 190 g/km


and beat the Megane RS' Nürburgring lap time by 10 seconds (they say... remember that the announced Nürburgring lap time for a 'specially tuned' Boxster S of the previous generation with only 5 hp less BUT 10 Nm plus was 8:10 min - worse than the Megane RS):





2. In order to handle such engine's big torque output and yet minimize the natural Torque Steer of a FWD car some clever engineering is needed which was exactly what Renault Sport did before everyone else:

[abisson]

Yo You Are Talking To Yourself. Stfu.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by abisson

Yo You Are Talking To Yourself. Stfu.

You are still reading, right?!

[GoingTooFast]

What I mean with all this is simple... the Toyobaru needs a turbocharged engine to be perfect... I will keep asking for it!