BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Evolve Automotive
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-01-2012, 07:43 PM   #1
JerezblackM3
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

Active autowerke stage 2 m3 down on power

hello all. my AA stage 2 m3 has put down about 430 whp. We have worked for 2 nights and days on the dyno with contact with active, sending back and forth the map file and the results were still terrible. no where near the advertised numbers of 625 hp or somewhere around 540 whp. now i started to have doubts about my stage 2. i think they have sold me stage 1.

to all the experts out there, how can i tell between stage 1 and stage 2? any specific dimensions between pullies? please help help help. this is embarrassing. full bolt on m3s are keeping up with me.
JerezblackM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2012, 07:49 PM   #2
///Montreal3
Second Lieutenant
 
///Montreal3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 AW E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ///Montreal

Posts: 236
iTrader: (0)

Nothing crappier than laying out for an expensive mod and being thoroughly disappointed.

I'm sorry I can't help you, hopefully someone will chime in with some answers to your questions.

Good luck, I hope this gets sorted out.
__________________
BMW: 2011 AW/Black E92 M3 DCT - 2010 BSM/Tan E90 335i AT
Other: 2004 AW GDB STi 6spd - 1991 Nero/Nero 348tb 5spd
///Montreal3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2012, 08:57 PM   #3
IFX
Banned
 
Drives: AW e46M/N54
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Fla.

Posts: 2,538
iTrader: (1)

It seems Active is at least trying to help resolve the issue, with the whole files situation.

I highly doubt they would send you a stage 1 when you ordered a 2.


I think you should at least wait a bit more before you come on the internet bashing
them.

Active has a strong reputation, they wouldn't jeopardize it.


My 2 cents..
IFX is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2012, 10:03 PM   #4
Evolved M3
Private First Class
 
Evolved M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NJ

Posts: 154
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerezblackM3 View Post
now i started to have doubts about my stage 2. i think they have sold me stage 1.

to all the experts out there, how can i tell between stage 1 and stage 2? any specific dimensions between pullies? please help help help. this is embarrassing. full bolt on m3s are keeping up with me.
Im not too familiar with the AA Superchargers but i just took a look on there website and it seems the most noticeable difference would be the St. 2 includes a methanol injection kit and the St. 1 does not.
Evolved M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2012, 11:30 PM   #5
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

Posts: 3,430
iTrader: (5)

We have been working very closely with this customer to figure out the issues related to this car. The car is not quite making the power that we usually see here on our dyno.

The biggest issue with the vehicle is that it is not running the recommend 98 RON fuel. Our technicians were told that 95 RON is all that is available, and is not always guaranteed to be of this quality. Datalogs have also been sent to our Engineering department where it has been identified that the car is not running the standard ignition timing that we traditionally see on the dyno locally.

We want to see our customers enjoy the product we sell and we will diligently work until they are satisfied.
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2012, 11:59 PM   #6
schnell325
Bored at work....
 
schnell325's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 M3,'11 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC

Posts: 3,863
iTrader: (5)

I'm sure all will work out!
__________________
'08 M3: AA G2L3, Catless X-Pipe & Sig Series Rear. AP rods. TC Kline EDC Coil Overs. MRF Alum Sub Frame Bushings. TMS Delrin Diff'l Bushings. BFI Motor Mounts. Recaro PP. BMW Perf Steering Wheel. P3 Gauge. PS Overflow Kit. APEX ARC-8 18"x9.5"/10.5". Conti Slicks 275/35F 305/30R. Stoptech Pads/SS Lines. Cantrell Brake Ducts.
http://5252motorsports.blogspot.ca/2...3-sleeper.html
schnell325 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2012, 06:28 AM   #7
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

Posts: 1,669
iTrader: (3)

Seems like this car would be a great candidate for a nice meth injection system like an Aquamist HFS3. With lower octane gas, less timing is safely possible and less boost is safely possible, resulting in less power. These cars have very high compression to begin with. You don't want to blow up your engine. They are not cheap. The meth injection would help provide octane consistency.

The dyno result means more if we know what kind of dyno it is and whether the number is uncorrected, STD corrected or SAE corrected.

Could be belt slip, could be air leak. What is the observed peak boost? What are the observed AFR?

I am sure AA will help you figure it out if you can provide them with some data. Logs of data from a good scan tool are ideal. Probably better than just a dyno sheet from a non loading dyno like a dynojet.
pbonsalb is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2012, 10:59 AM   #8
edwinm3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
edwinm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 MELBOURNE RED M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Doral

Posts: 1,823
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Could be belt slip, could be air leak.
I'm sure this is your problem
__________________
edwinm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2012, 11:08 AM   #9
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,103
iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Maybe there was an issue with the motor prior to the s/c install?
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2012, 11:25 AM   #10
s65power
New Member
 
Drives: 2012 M3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cali

Posts: 20
iTrader: (0)

I would check to make sure that the boost pressure is constant and where it should be (If the belt is slipping you'll see issues here).

Then check the air fuel ratios and make sure they are within the desired range.
s65power is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 09:10 AM   #11
JerezblackM3
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

[quote=IFX;12430380]It seems Active is at least trying to help resolve the issue, with the whole files situation.

I highly doubt they would send you a stage 1 when you ordered a 2.


I think you should at least wait a bit more before you come on the internet bashing
them.

Active has a strong reputation, they wouldn't jeopardize it.


My 2 cents..[/QUOFTE]

You are correct. I hope so too. I changed my fuel pump as well. Still making bad numbers.
JerezblackM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 09:12 AM   #12
JerezblackM3
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Stage 1 puts down way more than 430 so its not the stage 1. Its clearly a big problem here. Maybe the charger itself is not operating properly. Can't see it being a tuning issue as it is an off-the-shelf tune, one size fits all so that shouldn't be an issue.

Full bolt ons with dct would probably walk you since you are 6manual. Totally embarrasing to tell someone you spend 15k to lose to a bolt on!!

By the way what does the AA kit go for over there? 50k USD?
My m3 is dct. Not manual. Still got walked by full bolt on pp performance tuned m3. The kit was ordered online from active .
JerezblackM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 09:16 AM   #13
JerezblackM3
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
We have been working very closely with this customer to figure out the issues related to this car. The car is not quite making the power that we usually see here on our dyno.

The biggest issue with the vehicle is that it is not running the recommend 98 RON fuel. Our technicians were told that 95 RON is all that is available, and is not always guaranteed to be of this quality. Datalogs have also been sent to our Engineering department where it has been identified that the car is not running the standard ignition timing that we traditionally see on the dyno locally.

We want to see our customers enjoy the product we sell and we will diligently work until they are satisfied.
I'm looking forward from you to see my car come to life. We tested with race fuel and race map, and it didn't get any extra hp. It produced four less.
JerezblackM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 09:18 AM   #14
JerezblackM3
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Maybe there was an issue with the motor prior to the s/c install?
Motor is well maintained and barely raced with 25000 km before the kit install.
JerezblackM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 09:20 AM   #15
JerezblackM3
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
I'm sure this is your problem
Boost was hitting 7 psi. No boost leak. I wish I can find the problem. Can someone tell me the size of the pulley used on a stage 1 and stage 2?
JerezblackM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 11:56 AM   #16
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

Posts: 1,669
iTrader: (3)

I would be running meth to raise the octane. Vishnu has done a couple of meth tunes on supercharged E9x M3s.
pbonsalb is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 12:36 PM   #17
edwinm3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
edwinm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 MELBOURNE RED M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Doral

Posts: 1,823
iTrader: (8)

If octane is the culprit then OP looks like your solution here is to run meth.
__________________
edwinm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 12:38 PM   #18
Alex07M3
Banned
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gatineau

Posts: 1,972
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 e92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Guys-as mentioned above clearly this is because the OP only can get 89 octane fuel (95 there is equal to our 89). That explains it right there. 89 on a stock car in summer would likely put out 40-50 hp less when driven hard. The timing pulled on 89 bone stock when driving hard is probably out of control. Its bad enough on 91.

This would sound about right on power.

Problem is still getting walked by other m3's so there likely is a component besides the fuel but that is a huge part of it
He tryed race gaz with race map and it did'nt do any difference!
Alex07M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 01:42 PM   #19
sg///M3
Lieutenant
 
sg///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 DCT
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 437
iTrader: (0)

Doesn't the AA kit already come with meth?
sg///M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 01:45 PM   #20
m3an
Banned
 
m3an's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Florida

Posts: 1,611
iTrader: (2)

My guess may be a boost leak somewhere; esp cause the AA kit uses a Front mount so you have some couplers and charge pipes to deal w/..
And a boost leak can be very annoying to trace and figure out and will drive you nuts.
m3an is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 01:48 PM   #21
Keik E92 M3
Banned
 
Drives: BMW M3 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,349
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [4.50]
2011 BMW 335i  [3.40]
This would suck so bad.
Keik E92 M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #22
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

Posts: 1,669
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by talontid View Post
My guess may be a boost leak somewhere; esp cause the AA kit uses a Front mount so you have some couplers and charge pipes to deal w/..
And a boost leak can be very annoying to trace and figure out and will drive you nuts.
But he says he has 7 psi, so no boost leak. And I agree that race gas would be as good as the meth I suggested. Hopefully the OP and AA have success soon.
pbonsalb is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST