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      08-01-2012, 05:56 AM   #1
leo95se
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anyone else think the m leans too much?

getting through corners is killing me. guess im not a fan of SIFO. lol.
is anyone else struggling with keeping the car flat and not feeling like a lot of speed is lost from so much unsettling through the twisties?
i guess its a twofold question around my driving and the suspension. ill post some vids soon, and am curious if there is a good solution from an upgrade standpoint.
Thanks..
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      08-01-2012, 06:16 AM   #2
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Nope.My ZCP is pretty flat & quite well balanced.
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      08-01-2012, 07:01 AM   #3
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You would need bigger anti-roll bars. I have the M3 ARBs and while the car feels balanced, body roll is still quite pronounced on sharp corners.
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      08-01-2012, 07:20 AM   #4
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In stock form and no EDC, I don't think that body roll is too much of an issue. The car is VERY capable and neutral. If anything, I think the E9X is a drift maniac!
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      08-01-2012, 07:40 AM   #5
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You've gotta be running comfort mode or be used to racecars if you think it has a lot of body roll. My M3 on sport EDC had less body roll than my Cayman S and many many other sports cars. Now, on coilovers, it has even less. With KW clubsports as my only handling mod (stock sways etc.) my car now has less body roll than my old E36 racecar did, which ran 1000# springs and weighed 2500.

In sum, the M3 has incredibly low body roll.
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      08-01-2012, 08:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
You would need bigger anti-roll bars. I have the M3 ARBs and while the car feels balanced, body roll is still quite pronounced on sharp corners.
M3 ARBs are fitted as standard on the M3.
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      08-01-2012, 08:26 AM   #7
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Do you have stock seats? That may be why it feels soft to your "butt dyno."
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      08-01-2012, 08:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
M3 ARBs are fitted as standard on the M3.
lol I guessed that

I was implying that M3 ARB may be a little too soft.
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      08-01-2012, 09:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxfish View Post
Do you have stock seats? That may be why it feels soft to your "butt dyno."
Good point. It is tough to tell how much your car is leaning if you are leaned way over because you lack support.
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      08-01-2012, 09:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Nope.My ZCP is pretty flat & quite well balanced.
Yes but that picture is in a corner with negative camber, which helps to keep the car more flat.

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      08-01-2012, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Yes but that picture is in a corner with negative camber, which helps to keep the car more flat.

Believe me the car rolls very little as evidenced by my tire wear on this car with stock camber settings compared to my 08 which rolled a lot more.The NT05's do not seem to require a lot of camber to work properly on track.
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      08-01-2012, 09:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Believe me the car rolls very little as evidenced by my tire wear on this car with stock camber settings compared to my 08 which rolled a lot more.The NT05's do not seem to require a lot of camber to work properly on track.
Maybe you're slow?





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      08-01-2012, 10:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
You've gotta be running comfort mode or be used to racecars if you think it has a lot of body roll. My M3 on sport EDC had less body roll than my Cayman S and many many other sports cars. Now, on coilovers, it has even less. With KW clubsports as my only handling mod (stock sways etc.) my car now has less body roll than my old E36 racecar did, which ran 1000# springs and weighed 2500.

In sum, the M3 has incredibly low body roll.
Sorry for the off topic question, but do you mind telling us what spring rate do you use for your KW clubsports? And is it compatable with EDC? Thanks.
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      08-01-2012, 11:59 AM   #14
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On stock, 2008 non-EDC suspension -- yes, at least from a "feel" standpoint I was not a fan. I can't say that it was necessarily lacking grip, but I disliked the boat-like swaying.

Upgraded to coilovers and much happier.
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      08-01-2012, 12:05 PM   #15
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No, my car is well balanced and sits fairly flat. I run stock suspension, EDC both on and off and I do not feel the car rolls too much with either setting.
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      08-01-2012, 12:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
Sorry for the off topic question, but do you mind telling us what spring rate do you use for your KW clubsports? And is it compatable with EDC? Thanks.
Standard KW CS rates: 800 rear/514 front. It really doesn't feel that punishing to me except over large bumps on the street, and the handling improvement is worth it. It is compatible with EDC, I have the EDC version, but you don't have EDC functionality. Basically you get no error codes etc., but you can't adjust damping on the fly. Not that you need to, they rock at the recommended rebound and compression settings.
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      08-01-2012, 12:29 PM   #17
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Not an issue, particularly in the Sport setting with ZCP
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      08-01-2012, 01:48 PM   #18
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Unless I am missing something, OP does not have a ZCP M3 so why are people using that to say that everything is fine? It would appear that helpful feedback for the OP would consist of how people feel about a NON-ZCP M3 and what they did to improve (if anything).
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      08-01-2012, 02:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
Unless I am missing something, OP does not have a ZCP M3 so why are people using that to say that everything is fine? It would appear that helpful feedback for the OP would consist of how people feel about a NON-ZCP M3 and what they did to improve (if anything).
It doesn't matter whether it's ZCP really. My car is not ZCP. An EDC equipped car doesn't have significant body roll on sport or normal modes, but does on comfort. A non-EDC car does not have significant body roll. The only way a E9X M3 has much body roll is if you (1) have EDC AND (2) have it on comfort.

And I consider myself to be very picky about suspensions and handling, these cars seriously have lower body roll than almost every performance car out there.

Regarding modding it up: some people have said sway bars, I said coilovers. IMO, if you think the stock setup has lots of body roll you need some very stiff dampers/springs.
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      08-01-2012, 02:49 PM   #20
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I thought the EDC actually stiffened the outside dampers depending on the road condition...regardless of the current firmness selection. If one doesn't have this option, the dampers will not stiffen when you go around a bend and will probably roll more.

I found that Eibach springs made a big difference to body roll even with EDC.

BTW I have driven with leo and he pushes the car around. If anyone is going to find a problem with body roll, it is probably going to be leo!

From BMWUSA

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"Electronic Damping Control

Electronic Damping Control (EDC) automatically adjusts the shock absorber settings to meet changes in vehicle speed, load, or road and driving conditions. The driver selects either "Sport" or "Comfort" from the iDrive "Settings" menu. EDC then modifies the shock absorbers to any degree, from the softest to the firmest setting. The result is exceptional riding comfort and fluid, responsive handling at all times. For example, the "Sport" setting increases firmness under all conditions for a sportier driving feel. With the "Comfort" setting, when sensors detect smooth roads, the shock absorbers are kept "soft" for optimum riding comfort. When the vehicle is rounding a sharp corner or curve, the shock absorbers are automatically and instantly adjusted to a firmer level. And when the vehicle encounters irregular road surfaces, such as bumps or a "washboard" surface, the shocks are instantly adjusted to the optimum level of firmness. This controls ride motions, helping to keep ride comfort at an acceptable level while maintaining road contact."
The bottom line is with EDC at the track it automatically firms up for corners, the EDC just alters the comfort in between them!
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      08-01-2012, 03:14 PM   #21
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Lim3y: I think that you are correct in how EDC works (you did cite BMW after all), but the car has more body roll in comfort than sport, for whatever reason.

OP: some body roll won't really slow you down, and can actually help you feel the car's limits. The amount the M3 has is small. That being said, if you are unhappy with the stock handling dynamics I recommend KW clubsports, JRZ's, or Moton's. And more track time (duh).
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      08-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #22
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One of the biggest mistakes in driving is people focus on how the car reacts to THEM, not how the you react to the CAR. Try slowing down the hands, have better control of brake release, be smoother on the throttle. Usually rough combinations of those three things, brakes-steering-throttle, leads to weight being unnecessarily thrown around. Think of those three things as shifting weight.

With that said, I have a decent amount of seat time in M3's. I agree they do initially feel slightly big, wobbly and understeery. Settle it down though and it is very capable.
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