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      07-20-2012, 06:53 PM   #23
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M3 sounding better than the 63?
Everyday.
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      07-20-2012, 06:59 PM   #24
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Well, I loved my 997 GT3, but just like 4.0 everyone said that those brilliant engineers "fixed" the 911 problem (going off the road backwards,) but then how come at my first Porsche DE the just retired GT2 race driver took us off the course backwards and rolled us 3-5 times? I now think that having engine behind axle is not so great, but maybe the 4.0 has the right software now...
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      07-20-2012, 09:07 PM   #25
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I am not so sure if the margin is as easy as you are making it out to be. Sure the GT3 4.0 is faster and a lots of fun raw car. I can understand why
GT3 4.0 won. It has more power over GTS and a bit lighter also.

However, reading this review as well as others. One can clearly understand that the M3 GTS is no joke in that department and the gap is not huge but rather more incremental.

Infact as you read this article you get the idea that M3 GTS seems to be great fun and handles even more predictable then the GT3 4.0. On the other hand you have to have some faith with GT3 4.0. The M3 GTS is more predicatable and easier to push to the limit in comparison. In the GT3 4.0 you still have to have faith in P engineers and their ability to over come the huge engine hanging in the back that is ready to bite you if you mess up.

As far as sound goes I have heard by all accounts that M3 GTS sounds awesome.

I would take the exotic F1 sounding small 4.0 liter high revving V8 (based off a high revving V10) over the 4.0 liter flat 6 to be honest when it comes down to sound.

Also big bore 6.2 liter V8 muscle car sound of C63 black series is great. But it is more like a Corvette sounding muscle car then M3 GTS which to me sounds more in league with high revving Ferrari.

Anyways sound is subjective but to my ears the high revving, high pitched sound is more fun then a bit more Coarse flat 6 or deep bellow of big bore muscle car sound.

I think take a few more pounds off the GTS M3, give it the same 500hp, and wider 300 section width rear tires like the GT3 4.0 and watch its lap times climb as high or higher then the GT3 4.0.

None the less good win for P car and great showing by M3 and even Lotus. I would love to be so lucky as to own any one of these cars. But if it was my money the ultimate M3 GTS with few extra mods would be parked in my garage.








Quote:
Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver View Post
No surprise to see the RS 4.0 won...how could it not? Its quite possibly the best car ever made. You simply cannot compare anything else in this comparo to it.

We all know the GT3 RS 4.0 is THE best car, easily, amongst this group and also sounds the best by some margin too! The M3 cannot compare to the exotic symphony of the RS 4.0! It makes the M3 by comparo seem tame and mundane...and thats having actually heard the 4.0 in person compared to even a full exhaust M3. Simply no contest.
The 4.0 is amongst the best cars ever made and thats why anything short of a 458 or McLaren has trouble competing with it and even those cant beat it in comparos.
There was a similar Evo test with the GTS and GTR and the 4.0 easily won that one too.
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/featur...ar_xkr_75.html

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-21-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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      07-20-2012, 10:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cl0ud7 View Post
Soooooo...Did I miss the part where they announced the winner?

I'm assuming...

1 - GT3
2 - GTS
3 - Lotus
4 - GTR
5 - C63


???
Yeah... the last page
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      07-21-2012, 03:49 AM   #27
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I would probably put the C63 first. The 6.2L and that exhaust is
To be fair the AMGs get a standard eisenmann-like treatment so they ought to.
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      07-21-2012, 05:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I am not so sure if the margin is as easy as you are making it out to be. Sure the GT3 4.0 is faster and a lots of fun raw car. I can understand why
GT3 4.0 won. It has more power over GTS and a bit lighter also.

However, reading this review as well as others. One can clearly understand that the M3 GTS is no joke in that department and the gap is not huge but rather more incremental.

Infact as you read this article you get the idea that M3 GTS seems to be great fun and handles even more predictable then the GT3 4.0. On the other hand you have to have some faith with GT3 4.0 the M3 GTS is more predicatable and easier to push to the limit. In the GT3 4.0 you still have to have faith in P engineers and their ability to over come the huge engine hanging in the back that is ready to bite you if you mess up.

As far as sound goes I have heard by all accounts that M3 GTS sounds awesome.

I would take the exotic F1 sounding small 4.0 liter high revving V8 (based off a high revving V10) over the 4.0 liter flat 6 to be honest when it comes down to sound.

Also big bore 6.2 liter V8 muscle car sound of C63 black series is great. But it is more like a Corvette sounding muscle car then M3 GTS which to me sounds more in league with high revving Ferrari.

Anyways sound is subjective but to my ears the high revving, high pitched sound is more fun then a bit more Coarse flat 6 or deep bellow of big bore muscle car sound.

I think take a few more pounds off the GTS M3, give it the same 500hp, and wider 300 section width rear tires like the GT3 4.0 and watch its lap times climb as high or higher then the GT3 4.0.

None the less good win for P car and great showing by M3 and even Lotus. I would love to be so lucky as to own any one of these cars. But if it was my money the ultimate M3 GTS with few extra mods would be parked in my garage.


Well said.

Reading through the whole review I got a sence that the GTS was summed up pretty special and up high along with the 4.0RS.

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      07-21-2012, 10:03 AM   #29
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Due to the fact that the GTS have been produced in such low numbers is mandatory for BMW to offer more hardcore versions after the next model will be released.
It's also interesting to see if those really special versions will be offered in US too
In my opinion BMW M can create very good sport cars with a better price than Porsche, it's the time to see more great products for enthusiasts!
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      07-21-2012, 10:08 AM   #30
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The GT3 RS is quite awesome
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      07-21-2012, 10:48 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ns2000x
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I am liking the new lotus. However, I am not so sure about the Toyota sourced run of the mill engine. But it seems they liked it.

They do not compare the sound of these cars against one another. Because I am assuming that the M3 would have sounded the best followed by the P car.

None the less great group of cars. I love the M3 GTS....I just wish it looked more DTM style. None the less it makes no difference as it seems sold out.
No surprise to see the RS 4.0 won...how could it not? Its quite possibly the best car ever made. You simply cannot compare anything else in this comparo to it.

We all know the GT3 RS 4.0 is THE best car, easily, amongst this group and also sounds the best by some margin too! The M3 cannot compare to the exotic symphony of the RS 4.0! It makes the M3 by comparo seem tame and mundane...and thats having actually heard the 4.0 in person compared to even a full exhaust M3. Simply no contest.
The 4.0 is amongst the best cars ever made and thats why anything short of a 458 or McLaren has trouble competing with it and even those cant beat it in comparos.
There was a similar Evo test with the GTS and GTR and the 4.0 easily won that one too.
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/featur...ar_xkr_75.html
My boss is a part owner of a track, he has a 4.0 and a CGT and he can't stop going on about how phenomenal the 4.0 is with a big kid grin.

I'd also rank the C63 above any M3 from an acoustic perspective. They sound like sex...
They really sound like bodies slapping against each other and moaning and shit? That's awesome.
And moaning and groaning and shrieking in ecstasy.
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      07-21-2012, 12:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1
I am not so sure if the margin is as easy as you are making it out to be. Sure the GT3 4.0 is faster and a lots of fun raw car. I can understand why
GT3 4.0 won. It has more power over GTS and a bit lighter also.

However, reading this review as well as others. One can clearly understand that the M3 GTS is no joke in that department and the gap is not huge but rather more incremental.

Infact as you read this article you get the idea that M3 GTS seems to be great fun and handles even more predictable then the GT3 4.0. On the other hand you have to have some faith with GT3 4.0 the M3 GTS is more predicatable and easier to push to the limit. In the GT3 4.0 you still have to have faith in P engineers and their ability to over come the huge engine hanging in the back that is ready to bite you if you mess up.

As far as sound goes I have heard by all accounts that M3 GTS sounds awesome.

I would take the exotic F1 sounding small 4.0 liter high revving V8 (based off a high revving V10) over the 4.0 liter flat 6 to be honest when it comes down to sound.

Also big bore 6.2 liter V8 muscle car sound of C63 black series is great. But it is more like a Corvette sounding muscle car then M3 GTS which to me sounds more in league with high revving Ferrari.

Anyways sound is subjective but to my ears the high revving, high pitched sound is more fun then a bit more Coarse flat 6 or deep bellow of big bore muscle car sound.

I think take a few more pounds off the GTS M3, give it the same 500hp, and wider 300 section width rear tires like the GT3 4.0 and watch its lap times climb as high or higher then the GT3 4.0.

None the less good win for P car and great showing by M3 and even Lotus. I would love to be so lucky as to own any one of these cars. But if it was my money the ultimate M3 GTS with few extra mods would be parked in my garage.








Quote:
Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver View Post
No surprise to see the RS 4.0 won...how could it not? Its quite possibly the best car ever made. You simply cannot compare anything else in this comparo to it.

We all know the GT3 RS 4.0 is THE best car, easily, amongst this group and also sounds the best by some margin too! The M3 cannot compare to the exotic symphony of the RS 4.0! It makes the M3 by comparo seem tame and mundane...and thats having actually heard the 4.0 in person compared to even a full exhaust M3. Simply no contest.
The 4.0 is amongst the best cars ever made and thats why anything short of a 458 or McLaren has trouble competing with it and even those cant beat it in comparos.
There was a similar Evo test with the GTS and GTR and the 4.0 easily won that one too.
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/featur...ar_xkr_75.html
GT3 RS 4.0 def sounds much more like a Ferrari than the m3. The 4.0 actually sounds better actually. I've heard it next to a 458 italia too and all agreed the 4.0 was as good if not better. That's also why when Chris Harris drove the standard RS and te 458 italia he also said the porsche sounded better.
The gts or s65 in general sounds NOTHING like a Ferrari. The flat 6 in the porsche is much more high pitched and similar in tone and pitch and the Ferrari v8 sounds much more and has much more in common with the p car in sound than the American style v8 in the gts. So yes porsche wins in this one (like there was even a contest lol) everyday and twice as much on the weekends.
As far as performance, the 4.0 is def more confidence inspiring, that's why even the rs (non 4.0) beat the 458. they said it made the 458 feel edgy and less sure footed in comparison. It's that good. The 4.0 is an appreciable amount better.
As For the gts, it's not even as good as a base gt3 from 2007 and the 4.0 is absolutely and positively in a different realm. Just imagine how much worse it would embarrass the gts if it had pdk! Look at the lap times (not even close as even a 2007 gt3 is faster than the gts even though it's 3 years older has less hp and no dual clutch) read the objective and subject reviews the gts isnt even worth comparing to what may be the best car of all time!
the gts with less weight and more power wouldn't touch the 4.0 since the 4.0 is so incredibly far ahead. The gap IS Huge between the two unlike what you state. A 7:48 vs a 7:28 on the ring is a masssive difference. And all other lap times forgetting the 4.0 the base gt3 does away with the gts with ease as it is simply the superior car with superior handling, engine, steering, grip and the list goes on. Porsche is a far far overachiever whereas the gts is only decent in terms of performance. The fact that it cant keep pace with a gt3 that is many years older shows just how far bmw is behind porsche in this category of cars.
Bmw builds great sporty cars but when it comes cars like this Porsche is the king of kings. They have been and always will be.
I could go on about it but we all know the point. The gt3 in any iteration is simply a better car. Performance, feel, sound, dynamism, it doesn't matter what aspect you try to conjure since none will match it. It's the car that IS THE bar to which all other hardcore cars will be compared. None have yet matched it. And none likely will. Just wait because the 991 gt3 is going to again set a new standard that was unthought of in the car industry.
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      07-21-2012, 05:07 PM   #33
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The Lotus may not be the fastest or best car, in this line up. But IMO it is the sexiest by far.
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      07-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #34
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I'd prob take the regular GT3 RS non 4.0 over the GTS *runs*
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      07-21-2012, 06:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
I'd prob take the regular GT3 RS non 4.0 over the GTS *runs*
How come? Because it'd be too harsh for the street?

If I could afford sorta that range of cars, I would get a GT3 regular, not even the RS, and daily drive it. It's significantly cheaper, and on the road you just don't need all that extra craziness.
Now, if I were VERY rich, and had a couple other cars, and wanted something almost purely for the track+occasional drive, I'd get the 4.0.

Edit: Wow, I totally misread what you said, oops. Thought you meant GT3 RS over the 4.0. But you meant GT3 RS over the NEW 2012 991 911. Yeah, so would I.
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      07-22-2012, 12:56 AM   #36
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The new m3/m4 with i6 + triturbos will destroy all these performance & sound produced by NA engines.

/sarcasm.
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      07-22-2012, 08:12 AM   #37
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Isn't this almost 2 months old??
Yes. This isn't the current EVO.
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      07-22-2012, 01:20 PM   #38
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a NON 4.0 RS, I believe even the "regular" GT3 will run faster times than the M3 GTS
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      07-22-2012, 02:51 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD
a NON 4.0 RS, I believe even the "regular" GT3 will run faster times than the M3 GTS
Yes this is exactly correct! Even a 2007 997.1 GT3 will beat an m3 gts decisively even though it has less hp less tq and no dual clutch transmission.
Any other GT3 or newer model isn't worth even worth discussion because the gts can't compare to the high limits, and overall performance.
In all honestly, it needs to be a 458 italia or a Lamborghini lp or mclaren to even begin to compare to a GT3 iteration and even those can't match it.
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      07-23-2012, 01:33 AM   #40
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To me, the M3 GTS is better than the GT3.
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      07-23-2012, 05:04 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver View Post
GT3 RS 4.0 def sounds much more like a Ferrari than the m3. The 4.0 actually sounds better actually. I've heard it next to a 458 italia too and all agreed the 4.0 was as good if not better. That's also why when Chris Harris drove the standard RS and te 458 italia he also said the porsche sounded better.
The gts or s65 in general sounds NOTHING like a Ferrari. The flat 6 in the porsche is much more high pitched and similar in tone and pitch and the Ferrari v8 sounds much more and has much more in common with the p car in sound than the American style v8 in the gts. So yes porsche wins in this one (like there was even a contest lol) everyday and twice as much on the weekends.
As far as performance, the 4.0 is def more confidence inspiring, that's why even the rs (non 4.0) beat the 458. they said it made the 458 feel edgy and less sure footed in comparison. It's that good. The 4.0 is an appreciable amount better.
As For the gts, it's not even as good as a base gt3 from 2007 and the 4.0 is absolutely and positively in a different realm. Just imagine how much worse it would embarrass the gts if it had pdk! Look at the lap times (not even close as even a 2007 gt3 is faster than the gts even though it's 3 years older has less hp and no dual clutch) read the objective and subject reviews the gts isnt even worth comparing to what may be the best car of all time!
the gts with less weight and more power wouldn't touch the 4.0 since the 4.0 is so incredibly far ahead. The gap IS Huge between the two unlike what you state. A 7:48 vs a 7:28 on the ring is a masssive difference. And all other lap times forgetting the 4.0 the base gt3 does away with the gts with ease as it is simply the superior car with superior handling, engine, steering, grip and the list goes on. Porsche is a far far overachiever whereas the gts is only decent in terms of performance. The fact that it cant keep pace with a gt3 that is many years older shows just how far bmw is behind porsche in this category of cars.
Bmw builds great sporty cars but when it comes cars like this Porsche is the king of kings. They have been and always will be.
I could go on about it but we all know the point. The gt3 in any iteration is simply a better car. Performance, feel, sound, dynamism, it doesn't matter what aspect you try to conjure since none will match it. It's the car that IS THE bar to which all other hardcore cars will be compared. None have yet matched it. And none likely will. Just wait because the 991 gt3 is going to again set a new standard that was unthought of in the car industry.
Really, u sure? U mean this thing sounds better than a 458? I don't even think it sounds better than the S65...

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      07-23-2012, 09:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clar View Post
Really, u sure? U mean this thing sounds better than a 458? I don't even think it sounds better than the S65...

No comparison to the S65 at all. I think the 4.0 at the very least sounds as good as the 458. Youre crazy to think the s65 sounds as good...and it sure as hell doesnt pull as hard by any stretch of the imagination. a 996 GT3 still pulls harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolren View Post
To me, the M3 GTS is better than the GT3.
LOL. You can certainly like it better but that doesnt mean it is. Its not even as good as a base GT3, but no one would expect it to be either.

Last edited by PaneristiDriver; 07-23-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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      07-24-2012, 12:15 PM   #43
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I prefer Car to Evo. Far more objective.
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      07-24-2012, 12:25 PM   #44
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I prefer Car to Evo. Far more objective.
Well, CAR has come to the same conclusion.

RS 4.0 >>>>>>>>>>>
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