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      07-18-2012, 11:08 PM   #67
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Nürburgring forced into bankruptcy

Anyone looking to buy the 'ring? Might be available a little cheaper than it was last week...

Nurburgring forced into bankruptcy - autoweek

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      07-18-2012, 11:27 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief View Post
Anyone looking to buy the 'ring? Might be available a little cheaper than it was last week...

Nurburgring forced into bankruptcy - autoweek

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BMW marketing opportunity: Nurburgring Memorial Edition M3
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      07-18-2012, 11:33 PM   #69
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Thumbs down

Sad. I can close my eyes and I'm right there with my dad in our 65 Mustang in 1966 paying the 5 Deutschmark fee to drive the circuit. Sad.
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      07-18-2012, 11:37 PM   #70
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Not good, rumors are plenty here on it closing next year. ...need to get some laps in quickly before summer ends.
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      07-18-2012, 11:39 PM   #71
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Maybe the guy that wants to replicate it in Nevada isn't so crazy after all...
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      07-18-2012, 11:41 PM   #72
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BMW marketing opportunity: Nurburgring Memorial Edition M3
well played.
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      07-18-2012, 11:44 PM   #73
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I think I might cry. For real.. WOW
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      07-18-2012, 11:46 PM   #74
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BMW marketing opportunity: Nurburgring Memorial Edition M3
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      07-18-2012, 11:51 PM   #75
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http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719467
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      07-18-2012, 11:57 PM   #76
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Quote:

BMW marketing opportunity: Nurburgring Memorial Edition M3
I've always wondered why they don't make a Nurburg Green... seems like the opportunity!
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      07-19-2012, 12:26 AM   #77
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Nurburgring closes, a new track will arise somewhere else, out with the old, in with the new. This might be a planned scheme to justify closing this wonderful to be able to build a bigger and better one elsewhere?? Who knows, politics suck, that's why I stuck with engineering, sad news tho
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      07-19-2012, 02:10 AM   #78
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It is same sad story every where in the world. The corrupt politicians and their chossen interest groups are involved in ruining one operation after another. All in dreams of making $$$$$ at the expense of general public.

I do not understand when people will have enough of this garbage across the world and kick these guys out to the curb.
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      07-19-2012, 05:37 AM   #79
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I saved 4 huge business' from financial downfall..
Maybe it's time to step it up a notch lol haha
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      07-19-2012, 06:03 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
I think auto manufacturers tend to send their top drivers to the Ring. These guys are professionals, many with former GT or F1 experience. They are the cream of the crop when it comes to drivers, so I think they tend to be safe bets. Also the fact that it's not a race. They are simply testing the car for production purposes, fine tuning, etc. It's a more controlled environment overall which makes it much more safer than a race.

That being said, I have no problem with the 'Ring as a track except what I've mentioned already. I hope they find some way to save it, though it seems to be hopeless at this point. If they do manage to keep it open for public use, then I'll take you up on your offer next time I do a European delivery.
Sorry, but you don't know anything about the ring and not much more about professional racing. Period. Fact is, the Nordschleife is almost fully booked with races on weekends throughout the year. So much, that the race series running there exclusively have to compromise as they cannot book enough track time as they would want to. The Nordschleife is booked by the "industry pool" for 8-10 hours on most weekdays, the rest is taken by track day organisers. There are very few all day timeslots left for "tourist" and "Carbon Card Club" member driving. Honestly... if anyone wanted "safe", they could book the GP track at almost any time. But that is not what people come to the ring for. Neither racers nor testers nor tourists. If you want "safe", simply stay on the Playstation. Safety is not the issue. Motorsport is always dangerous, in case you haven't noticed. The tracks generate profit. They have and they will.

The idea to build a mini Disneyland was plain stupid from step one and exactly that is now causing the problem. If you build a theme park as a source of profit and that theme park cannot even generate the funds to pay the interest for the loans required to build it, then you have a problem. And all this is no secret. Plenty of experts warned those responsible, that their theme park idea would never work. Long before the building ever started. There already are a lot of these parks all over Germany and the "ring customer" is typically looking for something else. And the critics were right.

The situation right now is, that it will most likely be "business as usual" until the end of the 2012 season. The big race events at the ring (primarily the F1 race scheduled for 2013, the 24h race, the Truck Grand Prix and the Oldtimer Grand Prix and "Rock am Ring" as a non-race event) now have a problem, that they cannot book the track for 2013 at present. This has nothing to do with the insolvency. It has to do with the fact, that the company managing the ring at present does not have a management contract for 2013 (as their contract has been canceled by the local government) and so customers do not yet have a poc. If you book the track, you have to place a downpayment. Standard business procedure. The events above book so much of the area, that their downpayments have to be quite sizeable. Nobody dishes that type of money out if they know that their contract partners do not have a basis to do business.

As soon as the insolvency statement has been filed at the appropriate court, the court will decide who will now manage the company during the insolvency period. Once that has happened a decission can and will be made what will happen with the tracks. I cannot see them closing down for business. Why should they, since they generate profits? If this insolvency provides the chance to get rid of the useless theme park stuff, then it would actually be positive. But there are risks. For the tracks, for the entire region. These are far to complex to explain them here. Mike (that Dackel quoted) named some of the points via 20832.

Me, personally, I want this track to stay alive! I wouldn't want to race on any other track in the world (actually I couldn't think of anything besides Mount Panorama in Australia that I would even want to consider)! And I am pretty sure I'll be racing there in 2013 just as I am 2012. All I can say is: show the world-wide support at "save the ring".
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      07-19-2012, 07:06 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmDrei View Post
The idea to build a mini Disneyland was plain stupid from step one and exactly that is now causing the problem. If you build a theme park as a source of profit and that theme park cannot even generate the funds to pay the interest for the loans required to build it, then you have a problem. And all this is no secret. Plenty of experts warned those responsible, that their theme park idea would never work. Long before the building ever started. There already are a lot of these parks all over Germany and the "ring customer" is typically looking for something else. And the critics were right.


Cheers
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      07-19-2012, 07:43 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCoffee View Post
Maybe the guy that wants to replicate it in Nevada isn't so crazy after all...
I really hope he does. I get air sick so traveling on a plane, that far nonetheless, is such a challenge. If he does, that would be the closest I would ever get to the real Nurburgring
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      07-19-2012, 08:37 AM   #83
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I saved 4 huge business' from financial downfall..
Maybe it's time to step it up a notch lol haha
Please save the ring....do it for all the automotive enthusiasts.
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      07-19-2012, 08:54 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Yes you may have spent time on the 'Ring, but have you been on other modern tracks? Like I said I've been on the 'Ring, Laguna Seca, Sears Point, and even Road America. So I have scope of what a MODERN race track is like.

Tracks can be interesting and captivating without being dangerous, that's my point. Laguna Seca is one of the most "fascinating" places to drive, I would also consider Road America equally as fascinating, but guess what? They have run off lanes, gravel traps, well designed bends, and many modern safety measures that keep people from becoming fatalities. That's why I implore you to drive on other race tracks to see what a modern track is like. Get experience on a modern track, then come back here and talk about the 'Ring and its safety. It's night and day. They could have spent some of that "revamp" money into modernizing the 'Ring, instead of building sideshow attractions.

Your assumption that a track is captivating because of the danger is horse shit, and comparing less dangerous tracks like Laguna Seca to "sitting on the couch" is laughable, and certainly shows you haven't been on any of them. I'd love to see what kind of lap times you would turn in at Laguna Seca, that you would compare it to sitting on a couch.

I was there in 2002 and 2007. Are you saying that in the past 4.5 years, the track has modernized itself to become more safe? I highly doubt that. Rennlist members who go to the ring multiple times a year have the same complaints I have, so I think you would be dishonest to claim that safety has improved greatly since 2007.
Dude, you clearly have no idea of the Nürburgring at all as you continue to confuse it with the two different tracks that exist there, and quite evidently you have neither racing nor driving experience there.

I therefor don't think there's any point in discussing this further with you.

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      07-19-2012, 09:36 AM   #85
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bmw should buy the whole ring and lease out testing garages for other manufacturers.
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      07-19-2012, 10:01 AM   #86
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Interesting read.

For someone who knows very little about the Ring, but has been involved in global finance/investment banking working with various finance entities and securitization vehicles for ~ 20 years, I'm dissappointed that the "EuroDisney" aspect of the Ring was able to be financed outside a bankruptcy remote structure (allowing the creditors of the new EuroDisney access to assets outside new EuroDisney). The bankers who were hired by the owners of the Ring should have never allowed for a structure incorporating the financing in the same entity that owns the Ring (or a cross-collateralization of EuroDisney debt to the assets of the Ring).

Easier said than done and perhaps the EuroDisney project never gets financed in the first place without the pledge of the Ring assets, however jeapordizing the Ring with a real estate/entertainment development project seems absurd. The owners of theme parks do not allow for collateralization of the theme park when they want to finance related-hotel construction.
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      07-19-2012, 10:46 AM   #87
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@Longboarder: Like I said... it's all rather complicated.

I'll try a short, simplified version... the bank that financed the "theme park development project" is owned by the state of "Rheinland Pfalz". 90% of the company that has been declared insolvent and that actually owns the ring and all the theme park stuff is owned by the state also (the other 10% are owned by the local municipality). So there is no real "outside funding". Thus little risk, that the assets could be jeopardized in the sense of "being sold off to some private investor that now buys the bancrupt company".

The state government had originally promised, that the taxpayer would not have to pay for the construction, but that it would be 100% privately funded. The private investors never showed up or vanished and so the states own bank provided the funding.

Bankruptcy is really a relative term in this case. A government owned limited liability company cannot pay the government owned investment bank. Normally the government could just decide to i.e. postpone repayments. The EU however doesn't like that idea. Thus the limited liability company has to declare insolvency. The state should have 100% of the assets as collateral.
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      07-19-2012, 10:57 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmDrei View Post
Sorry, but you don't know anything about the ring and not much more about professional racing. Period. Fact is, the Nordschleife is almost fully booked with races on weekends throughout the year...
EmmDrei - that was an excellent explanation.


We really need more of the Nürburgring Nordschleife and less of NüroDisney!

Show your support here ---> http://www.facebook.com/SaveTheRing


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