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      07-29-2007, 09:03 PM   #1
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335i vs GTO 6.0L

I went to the last German Invasion, did pretty good with my stock 335i, 13.465 in the qtr, which was close to what the 500HP AMGs were running. The M3s and E39 M5 were running mid 14's. At 2700 FT, and a fairly warm day, (Mid 80's) I though that was pretty good. That was in May. I was dying to see what the GTO 6.0s were doing in the 1/4 mile. But since it was only German, cars, didn't see any Pontiacs back then. Well, today was a different story. I raced every GTO that I could find. (Except the turbo-charged one). I'm happy to say, that in the end, they were all coming up to me, asking why in the world my car was beating their cars, and what in the world did I do to make it so fast. They were surprised to find my car was bone stock (3800 miles), and on stock run flats, (at a regular 34PSI). Furthermore, I just drove around the waterbox again, and let the car shift by itself in DS Mode. The first 2 GTOs that I raced had Cold Air Intake, and Exhaust. (One had Borla, the other Magna Flo. No Stock GTO broke into the 13's. They usually ran Mid 14's. My best run on this hot day...95F-100F, 2700FT Elevation was 13.543 @ 101.318. I immediately backed it up with a 13.576 @ 101.357, and a 13.642 @ 101.794. Before I left, the temps were at 100F. There were fairly strong cross winds too. Well, the 335i sure earned some respect at LACR today! Which by the way, after decades, was the last day the racetrack was open. Apparently they are going to have a live band tonight again as the grand finale. There was a jet dragster that ran 309.59mph in that hot weather, that was some power! Sounded like a percussion grenade when it hit the afterburners.

The video, kind of shaky, but you get the point:


the end of another run:
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Last edited by hotrod182; 08-04-2007 at 06:50 PM.
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      07-29-2007, 09:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
I went to the last German Invasion, did pretty good with my stock 335i, 13.465 in the qtr, which was close to what the 500HP AMGs were running. The M3s and E39 M5 were running mid 14's. At 2700 FT, and a fairly warm day, (Mid 80's) I though that was pretty good. That was in May. I was dying to see what the GTO 6.0s were doing in the 1/4 mile. But since it was only German, cars, didn't see any Pontiacs back then. Well, today was a different story. I raced every GTO that I could find. (Except the turbo-charged one). I'm happy to say, that in the end, they were all coming up to me, asking why in the world my car was beating their cars, and what in the world did I do to make it so fast. They were surprised to find my car was bone stock (3800 miles), and on stock run flats, (at a regular 34PSI). Furthermore, I just drove around the waterbox again, and let the car shift by itself in DS Mode. The first 2 GTOs that I raced had Cold Air Intake, and Exhaust. (One had Borla, the other Magna Flo. No Stock GTO broke into the 13's. They usually ran Mid 14's. My best run on this hot day...95F-100F, 2700FT Elevation was 13.543 @ 101.318. I immediately backed it up with a 13.576 @ 101.357, and a 13.642 @ 101.794. Before I left, the temps were at 100F. There were fairly strong cross winds too. Well, the 335i sure earned some respect at LACR today! Which by the way, after decades, was the last day the racetrack was open. Apparently they are going to have a live band tonight again as the grand finale. There was a jet dragster that ran 309.59mph in that hot weather, that was some power! Sounded like a percussion grenade when it hit the afterburners.
Nice. Yeah, I know that some ppl say those GTO 6.0Ls are very fast (and I've seen some decent GTO 1/4 mi. times on dragtimes.com), but I too had a similar experience when I went to my local track; I ran 13.097sec. @ 106.67mph while a GTO 6.0L ran in the low 14's; my car had PROcede, the track is at sea level, and it was a hot and humid night (86 degrees F & ~ 65-70% R.H.). I know the GTOs are heavy pigs, but I think they also must really slow down in hot, humid weather as well.

btw -- I also had fun with another one (GTO 6.0L w/ an exhuast and who knows what else) on the street one day; beat him by ~ 2 CLs from a 20mph roll - ~ 80mph. Needless to say, when we spoke for a minute at the light, he was shocked!
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      07-29-2007, 09:20 PM   #3
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Nice... I supposed we need new section for street racing
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      07-29-2007, 09:31 PM   #4
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Yeah, I passed a GTO on an empty CA 14 a month ago. He didn't like it. So he dropped down a few gears and tore off after me. I slowed down to let him catch up, and when he tried to pass, I gave him both tailpipes.

Much to his surprise I could get 3-4 car lengths on him! And then I would slow down and do it again. And again...

...so, ahem, after I passed that merging highway patrol officer at a buck 20...(pulled over now) CHP:" I don't know what you were doing, but it was a least 95+..." Haaa, he was gracious enough to write it up for 85mph. And then the GTO creeps by :finger:

Not that I would do that everyday...but that night, it seemed worth it.
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      07-29-2007, 10:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Nice. Yeah, I know that some ppl say those GTO 6.0Ls are very fast (and I've seen some decent GTO 1/4 mi. times on dragtimes.com), but I too had a similar experience when I went to my local track; I ran 13.097sec. @ 106.67mph while a GTO 6.0L ran in the low 14's; my car had PROcede, the track is at sea level, and it was a hot and humid night (86 degrees F & ~ 65-70% R.H.). I know the GTOs are heavy pigs, but I think they also must really slow down in hot, humid weather as well.

btw -- I also had fun with another one (GTO 6.0L w/ an exhuast and who knows what else) on the street one day; beat him by ~ 2 CLs from a 20mph roll - ~ 80mph. Needless to say, when we spoke for a minute at the light, he was shocked!
low 14s? Yikes, bad weather and bad driving

Good stuff though, Lsx cars set the bar pretty high!
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      07-29-2007, 10:23 PM   #6
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dont be shocked if you race another gto that is basically stock and you see his tailpipes. They are good for some pretty good times in the 1/4, mild tuning and your not going to beat them with the products we have available now.
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      07-29-2007, 10:30 PM   #7
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I have raced plenty of GTOs. I pretty much was surprised they aren't faster for the size of their engines. Remember, this is one of the worst track conditions in the nation. Almost 100F, and high elevation, and a 15mph cross wind.
Well there were four GTOs there today that were basically stock. Two red ones, one blue one, and a silver one. Most ran mid 14's. (Similar times to the E39 M5s) None broke 100mph. (Except the turbo GTO which would probably have beaten a ZO6. But some had exhaust and cold air, and of course my car is totally stock. Does anyone want to start a war with the GTO folks? Just post a link of this to their forum. J/K. There would be some real interesting responses. LOL. Of course I've got pictures of more runs, and what the other GTOs were doing. Just a thought for those of you tired of the GTO folks always bagging on the BMWs. I think a stock 335i would probably also beat a GTO on a road course such as Streets Of Willow, or VIR, what do you think? This would be a nice little tid bit for them. I have beat a few in my M3 which really stirred them up. But we were very close at Famosa. Some GTOs were a tick faster, and some a tick slower. My 335i is definitely quicker at LACR though. Yeah, I know, my coworker is going to be rubbing it in to me now that he just got his APS twin turbo set up installed. He wanted to come this weekend, but his MAP sensor was not ready, and with the MAF, it cuts out at 4000 rpm now.
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      07-29-2007, 10:39 PM   #8
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Some crappy times for the GTOs, but I guess thats about the best you can expect at LACR. The 335i seems to fair pretty good there with its altitude compensation. If I had a GTO or any other NA car, I would be depressed after making runs like that.

I wonder why they are shutting down LACR? They just shut down a small 1/8th mile track I used to go to here. Sucks because in the fall/early winter, the DA would go below sea level some nights.
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      07-29-2007, 11:00 PM   #9
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..and another fast auto runing consistent. Congrats indeed.

I only raced one GTO 6.0l while I was at Firebird Raceway(Phoenix), I ran my best of the night at 13.61@102.45 vs his 14.2@100.25. I do have the video.

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      07-29-2007, 11:13 PM   #10
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The amazing Gtech Accuracy.

I used the GTech Pro RR on one of the drag strip runs. It is amazing how accurate the thing is.
How about .052 seconds and .136mph! I took a short video also, its kind of shaky and brief, but I think you can get the point. I will try and post it to You Tube.
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      07-29-2007, 11:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
dont be shocked if you race another gto that is basically stock and you see his tailpipes. They are good for some pretty good times in the 1/4, mild tuning and your not going to beat them with the products we have available now.
Maybe, but the GTO is FUGLY!

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      07-29-2007, 11:28 PM   #12
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And here is what my car does at sea level and colder air temps.
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      07-30-2007, 05:45 AM   #13
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GTOs aren't that slow. We're talking 400 underated hp. Go figure
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      07-30-2007, 07:11 AM   #14
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The LS2 ('05 + '06) GTO's are capable of being plenty fast and given equal drivers (almost never the case!) should beat a stock 335. Higher altitude obviously makes a big difference. I do frequent and am actually a member (only 11 post) over at the GTO forum:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41

Very entertaining "Kill" stories from these guys and some 335 races. We do get some respect over there but no GTO owner has admitted defeat at the hands of a 335. Guess that's why they call it Kill Stories and not "Killed".

Last edited by Clem; 07-30-2007 at 07:35 AM.
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      07-30-2007, 07:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem View Post
The LS2 ('05 + '06) GTO's are capable of being plenty fast and given equal drivers (almost never the case!) should beat a stock 335. Higher altitude obviously makes a big difference. I do frequent and am actually a member (only 11 post) over at the GTO forum:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41

Very entertaining "Kill" stories from these guys and some 335 races. We do get some respect over there but no GTO owner has admitted defeat at the hands of a 335. Guess that's why they call it Kill Stories and not "Killed".
So should an average driver in a Proceded 335i beat good drivers in stock GTOs? There hasn't been many videos, except one I saw where a Procede 335i got slaughtered by a GTO that obviously wasn't near stock. It was a 3 way race between the EVO, GTO, 335i. The 335i looked like it was standing still!

Interestingly enough, this post shows that at the NJ drag strip, his stock 335i was faster than the GTOs there too: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74561
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      07-30-2007, 08:05 AM   #16
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Thanks again Hotrod...your real life posts and attention to testing detail are much appreciated. I perused the GTO forum, it seemed like many people there run high 13's-low 14's, with the true drag guys running low 13's stock.

Versus the 335i it seems pretty much like a drivers race for most, though I did see some claimed stock times in the 12's and trap speeds at 108+...meaning with the same experienced driver in both cars the 335i will need some extra boost.
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      07-30-2007, 08:50 AM   #17
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Hey guys.....I'm a GTO owner. I know Matt (Sniz) and he sent me the link to this thread. Being the GTO owner I thought I could share some first hand knowledge. First of all.....it seems that most of these accounts are at high altitude where the forced induction of the 335 obviously has the advantage over the N/A GTO. I understand you guys are just posting your first hand encounters, I just want to make sure that the general consensus isn't that "All GTOs are slow and run mid to low 14s no matter where you run them."

Yes, GTOs are heavy pigs. (around 3725 pounds) They are also VERY tricky to launch because of the IRS, and the RIDICULOUSLY skinny tires that GM in their infinite wisdom decided to stick on them. (245s for the 17" rims, and 235 for the 18s) Needless to say, the tires are ridiculously undersized for a 400hp vehicle. That combination produces some NASTY wheel hop out of the hole, so 1/4 mile ETs suffer. A lot of the guys are putting drag bags in the rears to help control it. That being said, if a competant driver is behind the wheel of a 6 speed 05+ GTO...they can be very quick. I took my car to the strip (slightly above sea level) with 1,400 miles on the clock and logged a best pass of 13.3@109mph bone stock.

Matt (Sniz) and I are going to meet up VERY soon to see what my stock GTO can do against his Procede 335i. Hopefully we'll get some videos so you guys can see the runs. Like I said, I have never run a 335i so I don't really have any idea what to expect, but I'm a pretty good driver. I used to have a 2003 Z06 (stock) and ran 12.2@116 in 104* August heat last summer.

Anyway, if anyone else has any questions for a GTO owner, feel free to ask and I'll answer as best I can.

Cheers!
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      07-30-2007, 08:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem View Post
The LS2 ('05 + '06) GTO's are capable of being plenty fast and given equal drivers (almost never the case!) should beat a stock 335. Higher altitude obviously makes a big difference. I do frequent and am actually a member (only 11 post) over at the GTO forum:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41

Very entertaining "Kill" stories from these guys and some 335 races. We do get some respect over there but no GTO owner has admitted defeat at the hands of a 335. Guess that's why they call it Kill Stories and not "Killed".
Clem, whats up man? I recognized your username from some 335 posts over on the GTO forum, just thought I'd say hey. I think I replied to one or two of them over there. Where in MD are you? Matt and I are going to meet up soon for some runs, you should come on out too.
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      07-30-2007, 09:01 AM   #19
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They come up blaring that loud exhaust at me all the time. They actually sound pretty good . I wonder what a Texas GTO was doing out there?
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      07-30-2007, 12:03 PM   #20
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Cant wait to run a stock GTO LS2 w/ a competent driver. I'll report back once we've given it a few good runs.
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      07-30-2007, 12:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
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GTOs aren't that slow. We're talking 400 underated hp. Go figure
GTOs are slow compared to the 335 with procede.
GTOs are very heavy.
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      07-30-2007, 12:31 PM   #22
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If the GTO can trap at 109 then I'm pretty sure it will easily pull on a stock 335 from a roll.
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