BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-11-2012, 03:38 AM   #221
IS3andME
Lieutenant
 
Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

Posts: 411
iTrader: (0)

I think Caswell is right, on many points, just as many are right here...I wonder if BMW strategy of offering "M badged" models, is to please the poseurs, and then offer more back to basics variants for the real M cars---meaning, you are able to please the people who just want the badge, and please the people who truly believe "M" means "Motorsport", because as it is, AMG Black series, is pretty much offering what BMW wish they could do. And let's not forget, AMG made it's own car with Merc's go ahead, something that someone at M said they wished they could do. AMG also makes Pagani's engines...and then there is Lexus, with the 4.8 liter V10 in the LFA, and the rumored 600+ TT'd 5.0 V8 in a LS development car that was making the rounds on the 'Ring...it seems that other car companies are getting serious, and BMW is going the way of GM and Ford of the 80s....."Just the Bottom Line"
IS3andME is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 03:51 AM   #222
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,201
iTrader: (1)

Great discussion here. Like many have already said the article may have a few details off but is more or less on track.

The following observation really drives it home for me. I certainly knew these models existed but never took the time to examine them all together in one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidMal View Post
So we have M#, #M, M###i, X#M, M-performance and M-sport and you are really debating this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by simianspeedster View Post
It's easy to oversimplify the M conundrum, but brand equity is not an easy thing to manage as scale increases.
...
But before attacking BMW for their strategy, ask yourself this: what M car can BMW realistically produce today that would keep both the old guard and new guard happy while maintaining profitability? It's a much harder question to answer once you really think about it.
I too applaud your post. However, there is one light at the end of the tunnel. Reduction in weight, which appears to already be coming, will appeal to both the old guard and the new, the grocery getter commuter who likes to dash to 80 mph every now and again as well as the guys slugging it out at the track every month. Lower weight brings better handling and better straight line performance. Although I too am moaning about BMW M's move to FI for the next M3 or M4 or whatever the hell they'll be calling them, the weight reduction idea is right on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
IMO, there are only two European tuning houses that set the standard for anybody else to follow: M and AMG.
A bit OT but I think the language "tuning house" is utterly incorrect to describe either BMW M or Mercedes AMG.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 04:14 AM   #223
simianspeedster
Captain
 
Drives: 2013 128i Coupe Manual
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Vast Interwebs...

Posts: 604
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Great post.

However,

1M was 46k. So just a tick over 45k.

Stripped of unnecessary weight... No auto/dct.. No moonroof.. stock car has no nav, no power seats.. Check.

Curb weight, 3296 lbs.

Are you seriously going to say that you didn't buy a 1M because it weighs 96 more lbs than 3200?


Donta make a mucha sensa.

Perhaps you are an NA motor snob? Yep. That must have been it. Because otherwise, sounds like the 1M should have been on your short list.

*shrug*.
I sense your skepticism (though your sarcasm is unwarranted), but don't think I wouldn't put my money where my mouth is. For me, there were two factors for not seriously considering a 1M Coupe: First, I was only a few months into a 3 year lease on my current 335i Coupe when it was announced and, second, I strongly prefer BMW's NA engines.

You can choose to label it as snobbery (it's not, really, just a well-reasoned personal preference), but I prefer the direct throttle response and non-linearity (i.e. gradual build) of BMW's NA straight sixes. I understand why turbos are likely here to stay and I appreciate their all around efficiency (the N55 really feels like a V8 much of the time and pulls in any gear), but I still gravitate to any NA straight six and I'm saddened that its time is coming to an end next year.

I'm on record many times as saying I would like my 335i much more if it came with the 255/260HP variant of the N52 even if I'd give up some speed in the process. I really wish they still offered a 330i in the U.S. My car prior to the 335i was a Z4 Coupe and that 255HP N52 was my favorite engine of all time. I'm not saying it's the best engine ever made, but I found that it was the perfect combination of usable power, everyday civility and decent economy. And it also had a lovely rasp to it when pushed -- I really miss that natural metallic sound that urged me to wind it out. It may not be an M engine, but it's plenty good for me.

So given my strong preferences and the fact that my lease is up next Spring, the leading candidate for my next car is a 128i Coupe M-Sport. I'm not even going to look at the new 335i or 135i because have no problem trading in some luxury, space and speed for a 300 lb. reduction in weight. If BMW offered a 130i in the U.S. with the 255HP N52 and a slightly harder suspension, that would be my ideal car right now. And without going off on a tangent, we bought my wife an F30 328i earlier this year and it's hugely disappointing as a driver's car, but fine as a luxury sedan.

I will also be test driving a Subaru BRZ which may sound crazy coming from a 335i, but I know my value system and I'm going to seek out cars that fulfill the demands of my heart and head. As I mentioned above, I believe the BRZ is the closest thing to a spiritual successor to the E30 M3 that's available new today regardless of price (almost same size, power, weight, speed, etc.)

As for weight, one gripe I've repeated before: I find it unholy and maddening that BMW doesn't include lumbar support on all their cars. But for the inclusion of lumbar support, I would likely forgo the Premium Package to remove weight and complexity. Unfortunately, I've driven a couple BMWs without lumbar support and my back starts hurting within an hour, so Premium is a must for me.

So despite my defense of BMW's current direction with the M brand, I'm basically an old school M customer and BMW is probably going to lose me at some point. For now, they still make the best car in their class and, perhaps most importantly to me, they still offer manual transmissions (even if I have to order them hear in SoCal) which I require.

If the Cayman had a small rear seat for the dog, that would be my car of choice, but a 128i M-Sport manual with the last of the great BMW NA straight sixes is a pretty good option, actually better for me than a 1M.
simianspeedster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 05:10 AM   #224
vladberca
Brigadier General
 
vladberca's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 jetta tsi 6mt
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Craiova

Posts: 3,599
iTrader: (0)

Lighter models will follow in BMW line-up.
Offering an M Pack is not something wrong as the standard cars will have a more aggressive look and also better driving dynamics.
An M2 will follow, an M3 and M4 too, so no reason to worry for the moment.
X Ms are a must these days as all the major rivals have one or more in their line ups.
I don t know if you can compare a mustang or a GT3 with a M3 All of them are sport cars, but built with different purposes!
M135i is a car designed for younger guys who can't buy an M3; M Performance Diesel Models were developed for the markets were the prices of petrol are too high (see Europe case).
There is also a surprise prepared by BMW and is called i8!
I think that everything has a clear logic and we have to understand better the global market situation before posting some irrelevant comments
Mapezzul stated for several times the reasons for not offering a more hardcore M3 for the US market so for the moment there is nothing to do in this sense.
The capability of M was proved for many times in the last years with different REAL track versions so there is no reason to don't trust them anymore!
vladberca is offline   Romania
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 05:17 AM   #225
DivideBYZero
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E92 M3, Prev. E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK

Posts: 294
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
A lot of crybabies in here.
__________________
2010 E92 M3, DCT, w/Exhaust mod
2002 E36/7 Z3 2.2 Sport
2011 E82 120d Coupe
DivideBYZero is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 05:25 AM   #226
Ian///M
Major General
 
Ian///M's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: AU

Posts: 6,247
iTrader: (0)

As long as they keep making purist cars within the ///M brand, who cares if there is an X6 or X5 M car. They have to keep with the times and give consumers what they want and be in touch with technology and what competitors are doing.... I only hope that the MT lives on though in the M brand, looks to be dying. Perhaps the 1M and E46/9x M3's are the last MT's
Ian///M is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 05:29 AM   #227
1'M Blue
Captain
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: OM

Posts: 646
iTrader: (0)

blah blah blah

No other car in the segments of the competition will steer / turn / feel /drive like a BMW M . and thats all that matters. The new M5 is a boat but what did reviews and comparo's all mentioned and said ? nothing new to Mpower cars. You can add as much weight and power to a car but its all to do with its chassis dynamics and how the car reacts to the driver ... not something the "competition" has but only masterd by BMW M.
1'M Blue is offline   Oman
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 05:59 AM   #228
Fester
Major
 
Fester's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 Porsche 911 (991) 4S
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

Posts: 1,129
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I do think BMW is getting a little generous with the M Badges.
+1 ... and turbos... turn off for me for M!
__________________
2013 911 4S ...GT Silver/Espresso custom build w/ lots of options and all alphabets soup!
2007 335i Coupe ...TiAg/Grey custom build...Sold!
Fester is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 06:04 AM   #229
Frosty
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Frosty's Avatar
 
Drives: Ordered my E92 (7/10/06)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern NJ

Posts: 1,908
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by simianspeedster View Post
It's easy to oversimplify the M conundrum, but brand equity is not an easy thing to manage as scale increases. Think about it: how can BMW simultaneously keep the M brand special while making enough financial return on their investment in the brand? Scope creep is inevitable, especially as brand status gets figured into the equation.

I had a 1988 E30 M3 from '88 to '91 and it was the most special car I've ever owned. Unfortunately that car is not competitive by today's standards and BMW would be mocked by many if they attempted to introduce a car as simple and pure as the E30 M3 today. Like it or not, the Toyota/Subaru FR-S/BRZ is the closest modem equivalent to an E30 M3 and it sells for under $30K.

The "simple performance car" market is basically closed to BMW because there's a lot more competition in that arena today than there was 25 years ago at much lower price points (370Z, Mustang GT, etc.) and BMW has understandably decided to play in a more expensive space to keep their brand status and profits high. At the price points where M cars sell, most buyers want everything: all the power, all the comfort, all the "look fast" bits and all the technology. And at the same time, BMW has to meet increasing regulatory demands -- safety, fuel economy, etc. As a result, the M cars try to be all things to all people and they fail as pure performance cars. But they're selling in record numbers and BMW is a business before all else. If people weren't buying them, BMW wouldn't keep building them.

Realistically, what M car can BMW reasonably and profitably produce that would please the old M guard? I would have preferred that the 1M Coupe were a 260HP naturally aspirated N52 variant that was stripped of unnecessary technology and weighed 3,200 lbs or less. That would have felt more like a real M car to me (and I would have bought one for certain), but there's no way BMW could profitably sell that car for under $45K. Even at $45K, the armchair internet racers would lambast it for being underpowered and overpriced (which would also describe almost every NA Porsche for people who don't know any better). It would be an old school success, but a new school failure.

So I'm torn -- I am firmly against the idea of M SUVs (and Porsche SUVs) and 4,200 lb. $100K M Sedans but I understand that they serve to underwrite other BMW performance models that I may want, so I begrudgingly acknowledge their purpose. As I see it, the problem is this: I don't think BMW can simultaneously keep the old guard and the new guard happy while remaining profitable, so they're catering to the new, monied customers at the expense of the old school performance enthusiasts. It's really that simple -- they're chasing the new money and it hurts to recognize that fact if you feel left out of the party. The buyers are changing and BMW is changing with them.

But before attacking BMW for their strategy, ask yourself this: what M car can BMW realistically produce today that would keep both the old guard and new guard happy while maintaining profitability? It's a much harder question to answer once you really think about it.
THIS my E90 etc. friends is an intelligent individual ~
__________________
.................................................. ....................
335i Coupe (6MT) (2007: 9/06 build, pre ordered, only owner): Space Grey / Black Leatherette / Grey Poplar trim / ZCW / ZSP / BMW assist w/ bluetooth / power rear shade / navi with iDrive / comfort access keyless entry /+homelink mirror/ 154,885+miles (Nov-12-2013)
.................................................. ......................
Frosty is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 08:02 AM   #230
Eau Rouge
Captain
 
Eau Rouge's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida's Emerald Coast

Posts: 951
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW E92 M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by simianspeedster View Post
It's easy to oversimplify the M conundrum, but brand equity is not an easy thing to manage as scale increases. Think about it: how can BMW simultaneously keep the M brand special while making enough financial return on their investment in the brand? Scope creep is inevitable, especially as brand status gets figured into the equation.

I had a 1988 E30 M3 from '88 to '91 and it was the most special car I've ever owned. Unfortunately that car is not competitive by today's standards and BMW would be mocked by many if they attempted to introduce a car as simple and pure as the E30 M3 today. Like it or not, the Toyota/Subaru FR-S/BRZ is the closest modem equivalent to an E30 M3 and it sells for under $30K.

The "simple performance car" market is basically closed to BMW because there's a lot more competition in that arena today than there was 25 years ago at much lower price points (370Z, Mustang GT, etc.) and BMW has understandably decided to play in a more expensive space to keep their brand status and profits high. At the price points where M cars sell, most buyers want everything: all the power, all the comfort, all the "look fast" bits and all the technology. And at the same time, BMW has to meet increasing regulatory demands -- safety, fuel economy, etc. As a result, the M cars try to be all things to all people and they fail as pure performance cars. But they're selling in record numbers and BMW is a business before all else. If people weren't buying them, BMW wouldn't keep building them.

Realistically, what M car can BMW reasonably and profitably produce that would please the old M guard? I would have preferred that the 1M Coupe were a 260HP naturally aspirated N52 variant that was stripped of unnecessary technology and weighed 3,200 lbs or less. That would have felt more like a real M car to me (and I would have bought one for certain), but there's no way BMW could profitably sell that car for under $45K. Even at $45K, the armchair internet racers would lambast it for being underpowered and overpriced (which would also describe almost every NA Porsche for people who don't know any better). It would be an old school success, but a new school failure.

So I'm torn -- I am firmly against the idea of M SUVs (and Porsche SUVs) and 4,200 lb. $100K M Sedans but I understand that they serve to underwrite other BMW performance models that I may want, so I begrudgingly acknowledge their purpose. As I see it, the problem is this: I don't think BMW can simultaneously keep the old guard and the new guard happy while remaining profitable, so they're catering to the new, monied customers at the expense of the old school performance enthusiasts. It's really that simple -- they're chasing the new money and it hurts to recognize that fact if you feel left out of the party. The buyers are changing and BMW is changing with them.

But before attacking BMW for their strategy, ask yourself this: what M car can BMW realistically produce today that would keep both the old guard and new guard happy while maintaining profitability? It's a much harder question to answer once you really think about it.
Good thoughtful posting!

As for the question, where there's a will there's a way. Given that (a) BMW is now working to actually reduce the weight of its models and (b) there seems to be no shortage of funds to engage in costly R&D to bring a slew of new models to the brand's lineup, what exactly would be cost prohibitive about offering models such as the M3 with an engine option (e.g. N/A or F/I)? It isn't as if BMW doesn't do as much with the overwhelming majority of its models; in particular the 3ers.

Many of the the "old guard" type would be thrilled to have the option of ticking the "N/A" box while others that prefer something more fuel efficient or with more torque could tick the "F/I" or "Diesel" boxes; transmission options as well. That would make for a win-win situation for both consumer and seller alike. Creativity has its place in car production. Smart companies figure out a way to avoid losing long time customers. That's BMW's challenge today even as all signs are that business is so good that it can afford to lose a chunk of its long time customers.
__________________
Eau Rouge is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 08:26 AM   #231
TK-421
Registered Sex Offender
 
Drives: E46 M3 | 1JZ S13
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 4,765
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rissei View Post
Wait, you're recommending cars from a brand that:

1) Has an SUV (and before that, a convertible) as its best selling car?
2) Went to electric steering & a (possible) PDK for the GT3?
3) Intentionally nerfs the Cayman so that it doesn't intrude on the 911?
4) Has the most ridiculous options list outside of Ferrari?

I'm not sure if that is the brand you're looking for .

Actually, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if BMW did follow the Porsche strategy. Make M-sport cars for the poseurs that care about slammed stances, 20-inch wheels & nonfunctional CF aero parts, while having the "true" M-cars come standard with cloth seats and a set of track-worthy brakes .
Of course it makes other models for the sole purpose of making money but it still makes a model, the 911 GT3, that stays true to the idea of having a pure driver's car and always has (except for the recent implementation of electric steering and PDK which was just introduced long after the M-Division lost its balls and is still a far cry from artificial engine sounds and weak special editions).
TK-421 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 08:54 AM   #232
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
 
ozinaldo's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chile, Santiago

Posts: 3,051
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by simianspeedster View Post
I sense your skepticism (though your sarcasm is unwarranted), but don't think I wouldn't put my money where my mouth is. For me, there were two factors for not seriously considering a 1M Coupe: First, I was only a few months into a 3 year lease on my current 335i Coupe when it was announced and, second, I strongly prefer BMW's NA engines.

You can choose to label it as snobbery (it's not, really, just a well-reasoned personal preference), but I prefer the direct throttle response and non-linearity (i.e. gradual build) of BMW's NA straight sixes. I understand why turbos are likely here to stay and I appreciate their all around efficiency (the N55 really feels like a V8 much of the time and pulls in any gear), but I still gravitate to any NA straight six and I'm saddened that its time is coming to an end next year.

I'm on record many times as saying I would like my 335i much more if it came with the 255/260HP variant of the N52 even if I'd give up some speed in the process. I really wish they still offered a 330i in the U.S. My car prior to the 335i was a Z4 Coupe and that 255HP N52 was my favorite engine of all time. I'm not saying it's the best engine ever made, but I found that it was the perfect combination of usable power, everyday civility and decent economy. And it also had a lovely rasp to it when pushed -- I really miss that natural metallic sound that urged me to wind it out. It may not be an M engine, but it's plenty good for me.

So given my strong preferences and the fact that my lease is up next Spring, the leading candidate for my next car is a 128i Coupe M-Sport. I'm not even going to look at the new 335i or 135i because have no problem trading in some luxury, space and speed for a 300 lb. reduction in weight. If BMW offered a 130i in the U.S. with the 255HP N52 and a slightly harder suspension, that would be my ideal car right now. And without going off on a tangent, we bought my wife an F30 328i earlier this year and it's hugely disappointing as a driver's car, but fine as a luxury sedan.

I will also be test driving a Subaru BRZ which may sound crazy coming from a 335i, but I know my value system and I'm going to seek out cars that fulfill the demands of my heart and head. As I mentioned above, I believe the BRZ is the closest thing to a spiritual successor to the E30 M3 that's available new today regardless of price (almost same size, power, weight, speed, etc.)

As for weight, one gripe I've repeated before: I find it unholy and maddening that BMW doesn't include lumbar support on all their cars. But for the inclusion of lumbar support, I would likely forgo the Premium Package to remove weight and complexity. Unfortunately, I've driven a couple BMWs without lumbar support and my back starts hurting within an hour, so Premium is a must for me.

So despite my defense of BMW's current direction with the M brand, I'm basically an old school M customer and BMW is probably going to lose me at some point. For now, they still make the best car in their class and, perhaps most importantly to me, they still offer manual transmissions (even if I have to order them hear in SoCal) which I require.

If the Cayman had a small rear seat for the dog, that would be my car of choice, but a 128i M-Sport manual with the last of the great BMW NA straight sixes is a pretty good option, actually better for me than a 1M.
I am a 1M owner and a former 258 ps Euro specific N52 engined E90 330i owner and I know what you are talking about very well and totally respect your preferences. I still believe that you should give yourself a chance to drive a 1M first, if you could, and you may change some of those impressions. I would never rate the 1M as a great car if it wouldn't have such a big NA under the bonnet feeling most of the times and when you want it to be more, it has more too. Still, I agree with your OP totally and that Z4 3.0i coupe was really one of the best BMWs.
ozinaldo is offline   Chile
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 09:25 AM   #233
US///M3
Major
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Of course it makes other models for the sole purpose of making money but it still makes a model, the 911 GT3, that stays true to the idea of having a pure driver's car and always has (except for the recent implementation of electric steering and PDK which was just introduced long after the M-Division lost its balls and is still a far cry from artificial engine sounds and weak special editions).
+1

Nobody is bitchin about BMW makin suv's etc. Imagine Porsche takin the RS badge and slapping it on everything.

Even BMW realised their cars arent what they used to be, the 5 and 7 series used to be best in class. Now they're usually in the middle of the pack in almost every group test.

I know the poser racer doesnt give a $hit as long as the car has a BMW badge and they got the interior/exterior lastest trendy color combo. There was a time when the 5 series (E39,E60) slaughtered the competion in handling,driving pleasure etc.

The F80/82 is going to be lighter than the car it replaces, the next 5 and 7 will use extensive lightweight materials. Maybe they started listening to the true enthusiasts.
__________________
BMW R1200RT
All purpose, No pretense.

I'm back.
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 10:03 AM   #234
aus
Major General
 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

Posts: 7,329
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian///M View Post
As long as they keep making purist cars within the ///M brand, who cares if there is an X6 or X5 M car. They have to keep with the times and give consumers what they want and be in touch with technology and what competitors are doing.... I only hope that the MT lives on though in the M brand, looks to be dying. Perhaps the 1M and E46/9x M3's are the last MT's
I agree with what you're saying, but what purist cars has //M made lately that we can get? They said this Lime Rock Edition is track oriented, but there's NOTHING special about the car other than the $5,000 paint job, which is getting old already since many have already done it. I haven't seen interior pics, but I'm hoping they at least get the $3,200 orange stitching.
It's not like BMW hasn't done the engineering on the BBK and coilover suspension already. Come on BMW, throw us a bone in the US with something with true performance improvements.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 1'M Blue View Post
blah blah blah

No other car in the segments of the competition will steer / turn / feel /drive like a BMW M . and thats all that matters. The new M5 is a boat but what did reviews and comparo's all mentioned and said ? nothing new to Mpower cars. You can add as much weight and power to a car but its all to do with its chassis dynamics and how the car reacts to the driver ... not something the "competition" has but only masterd by BMW M.
Don't know what you've been reading, but they ALL say the steering SUCKS BALLZ on the F10 M5.
And as good as the steering feels on an //M car, try a 911- WOW. Directly connected to the road.

.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
aus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 10:21 AM   #235
US///M3
Major
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

The best-ever M5 beaten, by autocar.i dont remember the E39/E60 M5 doin this poorly against the competition.

Car and Driver, The M5 places last.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...arison-test?re on direct=no
Attached Images
 
__________________
BMW R1200RT
All purpose, No pretense.

I'm back.
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 10:28 AM   #236
DiavelM3
4 Star General -Twilight Zone
 
DiavelM3's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5280

Posts: 1,025
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
The best-ever M5 beaten, by autocar.i dont remember the E39/E60 M5 doin this poorly against the competition.

Car and Driver, The M5 places last.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...arison-test?re on direct=no
Win some, lose some. That's what competition is all about. You can't be the king forever - unless your Anderson Silva
I don't think ///M has lost it's touch yet. They just need to step up the game just like their competitors
__________________
'12 Ducati Diavel
'06 E46 M3 (sold) | '97 325is - Dinan (sold)
'02 Z3 3.0 coupe (sold)
Past - '84 Ferrari 308 GTSI | '88 Ferrari 328 GTS | '05 Dodge Viper Copperhead Edition #180/300 | Audi S4
DiavelM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 10:50 AM   #237
US///M3
Major
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiavelM3 View Post
Win some, lose some. That's what competition is all about. You can't be the king forever - unless your Anderson Silva
I don't think ///M has lost it's touch yet. They just need to step up the game just like their competitors
It's hard for them to step up their game with the F10 sharing the same chassis as the 7 series( F01).

///M brand being diluted maybe?
__________________
BMW R1200RT
All purpose, No pretense.

I'm back.
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #238
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Of course it makes other models for the sole purpose of making money but it still makes a model, the 911 GT3, that stays true to the idea of having a pure driver's car and always has (except for the recent implementation of electric steering and PDK which was just introduced long after the M-Division lost its balls and is still a far cry from artificial engine sounds and weak special editions).
This is what people and BMW do not understand. Everyone knows that they're running a business, and they have to make money. They can make a M 7 series GT with soft top for what I care.

BUT on the side, just give us one car that is in 3 series size that is a GT/sports type car, and more importantly, give us a 1 series or Z4 type car that is small, light and f**king fast. And do this without massaging seats, automatically closing boot, iphone apps, and freaking turbo engines. Make it a simple, raw, direct driver's car. You know, like the freaking Subaru does...
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #239
Alpine F31
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Alpine F31's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 328i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA

Posts: 1,766
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4awd View Post
When it was time to buy my first 911, I decided, eff all this bullshit i'm gonna make it a GT3RS.
Fuckin A, that's the way to do it!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE your RS! The M3 ain't bad either
Alpine F31 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 12:30 PM   #240
kave
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW 520D Touring 2012
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sweden

Posts: 327
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I don't know which planet the author is from, but here in Europe you can get a M-package car with any engine on all platforms. What about a 2.0 diesel X3? Has that anything to do with racing?
This is nothing new.
Was the previous (E60) M5 with that worthless gearbox a better car than current M5? You could even get a Touring version. Now you can't, so what.

Wake up to the world of marketing as it has been for the last 30 years or so.
__________________
kave is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #241
Rissei
New Member
 
Drives: E92 MR
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 18
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kave View Post
I don't know which planet the author is from, but here in Europe you can get a M-package car with any engine on all platforms. What about a 2.0 diesel X3? Has that anything to do with racing?
This is nothing new.
Was the previous (E60) M5 with that worthless gearbox a better car than current M5? You could even get a Touring version. Now you can't, so what.

Wake up to the world of marketing as it has been for the last 30 years or so.
+1, Europeans are used to having M-sport parts on their normal 3-series. At least the Lime Rock comes standard with cloth seats instead of slippery leather .
Rissei is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #242
US///M3
Major
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhan View Post
This is what people and BMW do not understand. Everyone knows that they're running a business, and they have to make money. They can make a M 7 series GT with soft top for what I care.

BUT on the side, just give us one car that is in 3 series size that is a GT/sports type car, and more importantly, give us a 1 series or Z4 type car that is small, light and f**king fast. And do this without massaging seats, automatically closing boot, iphone apps, and freaking turbo engines. Make it a simple, raw, direct driver's car. You know, like the freaking Subaru does...
Okaaay,Okaaay,no problem, You can have that car for $150k. It doesnt come with a hundred speakers, Nav, i-drive, comfort access, power seats etc. And You get an extra 35hp, coilovers, rear bench delete.

Dankeschön
__________________
BMW R1200RT
All purpose, No pretense.

I'm back.
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST