BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
PYSPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-10-2012, 03:01 PM   #111
Cl0ud7
Private First Class
United_States
3
Rep
188
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 / 2013 X3 2.8i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Catasauqua, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I just bought an M-umbrella from the BMW lifestyle online store .
__________________
2014 - AW, BMW X1 2.8i
2013 - AW, BMW X3 2.8i
2009 - LmB, BMW M3 (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:01 PM   #112
CanAutM3
Brigadier General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
72
Rep
4,369
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.75]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
I just bought an M-umbrella from the BMW lifestyle online store . The ///M logo is finding it's place everywhere.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:05 PM   #113
C-M2
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
214
Posts

 
Drives: 09 E92 SG M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD View Post
90K how could they do that? that a pipe dream Its a 120k car that would almost NEVER sell in the US unless they made like 500 at most. Plus the cost of smog testing, crash testing, changing the seats etc for US reg would make the car a lot more than that. Would you buy an M3 GTS for 140k-150k plus?
No, I'd buy a GT3rs at that price point. But at 100k I would buy a M3 GTS and so would many others.

Why would it never sell? Porsche seems to not have any problem selling a car like that. Neither does Mercedes. Why would BMW have trouble? They seem to think the U.S. market isn't interested when it actually is.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #114
DiscoZ
Second Lieutenant
DiscoZ's Avatar
Canada
3
Rep
273
Posts

 
Drives: C63 AMG PP, F25 X3
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: T.Dot

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Off the topic, but got to say this: The Z4MC is a fantastic car and there is really nothing wrong in matching its performance. Having said that, there is also no match to talk about either cause the 1M is quicker than the Z4MC in every single performance department and on every single track including the Ring. I am yet to see any numbers of a stock Z4MC equal or better than the 1M. Not too much difference but there is still some. Just for the record and no intention to take the discussion somewhere unnecessary.
Mean the 'ring times. Both 8:15. I am sure the 1 series M is faster, it should be given it is 6 years newer, only weighs ~150lbs more and has more torque, HP, better tires etc. Stock acceleration is about the same too... however the N54 / 55 are much more tunable.
__________________
Current: 2012 C63 AMG PP | 2012 F25 X3
Past: 2008 E92 M3 | 2009 E90 335i | 2007 Z4MC | 2002 GTI 1.8T | 2000 Celica GT-S | 1999 328i | 1990 Corrado G60
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:17 PM   #115
rjd598
Brigadier General
rjd598's Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
4,644
Posts

 
Drives: 10' M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2010 BMW M3  [4.50]
1999 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
That dude needs to get laid. Seriously, I don't care much for the 'lime rock' edition either, but the lengths people will go to bitch about shit is beyond me.
+100000 relax people the next m3 was said to be a better car than the current generation and the f30 m3 isnt even fully finished yet
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:17 PM   #116
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
ozinaldo's Avatar
Portugal
46
Rep
3,053
Posts

 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoZ View Post
Mean the 'ring times. Both 8:15. I am sure the 1 series M is faster, it should be given it is 6 years newer, only weighs ~150lbs more and has more torque, HP, better tires etc. Stock acceleration is about the same too... however the N54 / 55 are much more tunable.
Like I said, not much difference anyway and no need. The Z4MC is a fantastic work of art and I would love to have one next to my 1M at the garage. They really are raw and simple driving tools but so different at the same time due to engines and body designs.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #117
TopSpeedM3
Douglas W
United_States
0
Rep
43
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alpharetta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
LOL, you've got to be kidding. So let me get this straight, you're not impressed by anything making less than 100 HP per liter it appears. So that rules out all the NA AMGs, all the Corvettes (ZR1 included), the Boss 302, the Viper, some Lambos and Feraris, and basically everything else under $200K besides the Honda S2000. Not to mention, have you priced out a GT3(RS) in comparison to an M3? Go try to buy a 4.0L Porsche and let me know how that turns out.

The article was terrible. Full of sniveling and whining. Contradictions and hypocrisy. And I don't give a shit about M or it's heritage, I bough an M3 because it was the best car in the segment. Period.
You must now feel the need to troll around and comment on my posts. You have no idea what I think, know, or have done.

I suggest you drop it...

I have many options for what I could drive daily and I pick the M3. Yes I have ordered a supercharger for it, because in my opinion all the car lacks is about 100whp from being perfect.

Douglas Wilks
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:23 PM   #118
DiscoZ
Second Lieutenant
DiscoZ's Avatar
Canada
3
Rep
273
Posts

 
Drives: C63 AMG PP, F25 X3
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: T.Dot

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
LOL, you've got to be kidding. So let me get this straight, you're not impressed by anything making less than 100 HP per liter it appears. So that rules out all the NA AMGs, all the Corvettes (ZR1 included), the Boss 302, the Viper, some Lambos and Feraris, and basically everything else under $200K besides the Honda S2000. Not to mention, have you priced out a GT3(RS) in comparison to an M3? Go try to buy a 4.0L Porsche and let me know how that turns out.

The article was terrible. Full of sniveling and whining. Contradictions and hypocrisy. And I don't give a shit about M or it's heritage, I bough an M3 because it was the best car in the segment. Period.
2. Hahaha... so it's crap why? Did it make you feel angry? Please refute it, you and the 1,000 other fanbois. Don't make a broad declarative statement with no basis or premise behind your “conclusion / argument”.

1. Who gives a damn about "100hp/litre"... no one who cares about performance – otherwise you would see those who are serious about performance brag about it vs. trying to achieve it to get the most power from their cars - which is the idea, vs. the circle jerk. Race cars don't produce 100/hp+ per litre so their crews and fans can get mini chubs each time they think about it. It because they are constrained by rules and need to make the most power from what they have. This has found its way into street cars for (a) homologation, and (b) to give you that "race" feeling. I think he meant what you get for the price. BMW has done nothing to this car except come out with an overpriced GTS edition and an overpriced "track" version bolted together from its existing inventory of parts to squeeze that last bit of juice out of its fanboy followers – many of who probably consume ramen noodles for dinner to afford the next $5K exhaust from the aftermarket because it has beautiful welds or is made of Inconel, etc.

This is why I just bought a Mercedes after 5 BMWs.

(not that there are no fanbois there)
__________________
Current: 2012 C63 AMG PP | 2012 F25 X3
Past: 2008 E92 M3 | 2009 E90 335i | 2007 Z4MC | 2002 GTI 1.8T | 2000 Celica GT-S | 1999 328i | 1990 Corrado G60
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:25 PM   #119
Reznick
First Lieutenant
Reznick's Avatar
United_States
5
Rep
386
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 M3 ,2000 330
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Syracuse NY

iTrader: (0)

I'm well aware of Bill Caswell's accomplishments and building cars, but it seems like he woke up pissed at the world when he wrote this. That or he's trying very hard to impress the bitter little Jalopink crew he's writing with. You even mention the M3 and it sends Jalops into a hissy fit and you are (in their words ) instantly an asshat for driving one. I can fully agree with some of the points he makes but it seems as though his writing is a contradiction . He slams the me people that will buy this car as posers , but then says he can't wait to run into them at the hotel in their racesuits before heading to the track( I see what he's getting at,,but they are going to the track right? I haven't run into an amateur racer that doesn't like people to know they track their car. Just look at peoples sig's on this very site and the pics of them on track they post below. Thas why its there right? So we all know you track your car). He can't wait to run into them?? for what ?? to mock them? He's too cool for THIS type of driver. I'm sure there was a time in Bill's life when he was a little over enthusiastic to get on track.
People can go on and on about the M division being dead. But why pick this car? it started its life as an M3. Its a great car straight out of the box. Its not as though BMW is asking an outrageous amount of money for this special edition, so why are his panties in such a bunch. There will only be 200 made and it will start at $70,000. Thats what an E92 M3 costs anyway. Its not as though they took a new 325 ,slapped some wheels and an M badge on it and are asking 125K for it. There have bee many other manufacturers that have made " special editions" with limited changes and huge price tags and nobody says a word. ( Someone else mentioned the outgoing GT3, but that car came with major changes and the much bigger price tag to boot).While I will agree that slapping an M badge on everything lessens the true M cars lineage I can't agree that BMW's current cars are totally a product of their own doing. I'd love to see a stripped down, light car thats fun to throw around a track , but with more and more government mandates, you're just not gonna see it . Hell a Ford Focus is 3100lbs.As someone else already pointed out even if BMW did build a cheap stripped down track car, it wouldn't sell to the masses. Like it or not its the "masses" that keep car companies in business. M3's and M5's are a tiny fragment of BMW's sales
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #120
James T. Kirk
Captain of the Enterprise
James T. Kirk's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,425
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 1 Series M Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Alpha Quadrant, Sector 001

iTrader: (0)

The article was despicable... but not wrong.
.
Attached Images
 
__________________

2011 1 Series M Coupe VO M3 vs 1M Comparo Review
2011 M3 E90 DCT ZCP (sold) * 2010 335i Sedan (sold)
2005 M3 Convertible (sold) * 2003 325i Sedan (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:29 PM   #121
CoolDude196
.
CoolDude196's Avatar
England
12
Rep
615
Posts

 
Drives: f30 20d
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: England

iTrader: (0)

Perhaps he has a point. But BMW are a business afterall, and business need to make money in whatever way they can.
__________________
AW Sport 20d, 2tb, 552, lc, 397 plus others
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:31 PM   #122
cs4444
Private First Class
cs4444's Avatar
United_States
1
Rep
178
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

The fact is M cars are still top in all of their classes. They have world class engines, and no other manufacture that makes tuned versions of their standard models modifies them as heavily as BMW M does. BMW is even now developing new M's as standalone models from the ground up. The F80 will look like a 3 series, but is being developed as a unique model from the start. The chassis and body will use a higher ratio of lighter materials than the standard 3 series. Every aspect of the car will be unique compared to a standard 3 series, RS and AMG do not go to such lengths.

The F10m has unique aluminum suspension compared to the standard 5, and its rear suspension is bolted directly to the rear sub frame like in the M3 GTS, also the M5's chassis was modified to allow the motor to sit further and lower in the car. The end result is that the M5 is faster around the ring than a Panamera turbo, and has a much nicer ride...for a considerably less money! BMW asked M5 customers what they want in the next generation M5, and the F10m was the result of what the actual customers wanted, not lounge chair enthusiasts…people wanted a hardcore M3 we got the GTS, people wanted the back to basics entry level M we got the 1M. BMW M is still making world class performance cars.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:33 PM   #123
MA///M3
Banned
United_States
4
Rep
346
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 BMW M3 DCT COUPE
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: BOSTON, MA

iTrader: (0)

Can't say he doesn't have some valid points... but who the hell is this jalopnik guy? My e92 may be my last ///M
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:37 PM   #124
Norsk
Major
Norsk's Avatar
Norway
17
Rep
1,089
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)



CSL was indeed a nice special edition that brought true value to paying customers.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:44 PM   #125
bdaddylo
Major
bdaddylo's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
1,134
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
I'd love to see a stripped down, light car thats fun to throw around a track , but with more and more government mandates, you're just not gonna see it . Hell a Ford Focus is 3100lbs.As someone else already pointed out even if BMW did build a cheap stripped down track car, it wouldn't sell to the masses. Like it or not its the "masses" that keep car companies in business. M3's and M5's are a tiny fragment of BMW's sales
Do you think it was BMW's intent for the M brand to be something that is sold to the masses? The M cars is a small segment which is why is should be something special even if it comes at a loss financially because it helps promote the BMW brand. Using cost and regulations as an excuse for not being able to build a true M car for the US is a big cop out. Porsche does it and they don't have nearly the amount of revenue BMW has.
__________________
_______________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP/AW/Ohlins R&T
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:45 PM   #126
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
1,737
Posts

 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
Yeah because when BMW offers old school performance...light weight Recaro seats, rear bench delete,wider wheels and tires, coilovers,a 4.4L NA engine they want $140,000 for it.

It's not like a choice between a Boss 302ls or GT500 at similar prices or chosing between an E36 M3 or a E36 M3 LTW. Btw i know a guy who purchased an E36 M3 LTW new,there were no trunk money you've talked about.i dont know why you keep repeating the ltw was a commercial faillure.
He had to travell all the way to Cleveland OH to get one at msrp.

The M3 GTS is well over $140k, geez i wonder why there arent so many takers?
The GTS was a limited run car built by BMW Individual (not serial production)- it was supposed to be 50 units- it ended up being 120+ units and they all sold at full MSRP it was a success. The fact is that the E92 CSL was designed and built but when presented to the BMW AG board and they said "NO" bc the world economy was in the crapper in 2009.

Do you really think M put in all that R&D for the GTS and CRT just to sell 187 units? Nope they had bigger plans and to sell the E92 CSL in 2010 (US excluded bc of emissions and crash testing). The seats in the CRT are awesome but about $10k and developed in house. If they could have reached economies of scale with the CSL it would have been more inline with $90k (which was the target price) according to those I talked to at M- during my time with the CRT they were very open and honest about what it was meant to be.

The guy that purchased that LTW new- that sucks he paid full price bc they could give the 100 or so away by the end of the run- some people actually paid a premium for the Z4 M as well and after that initial run they sat on lots for sometimes over a year.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #127
ssabripo
HALA MADRID!
ssabripo's Avatar
United_States
52
Rep
2,102
Posts

 
Drives: camels & donkeys
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plantation, Fl

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to ssabripo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAM3 View Post
Can't say he doesn't have some valid points... but who the hell is this jalopnik guy? My e92 may be my last ///M
google him...guy is pretty well known among BMW tuner circuits. His claim to fame began when he transformed his e30 318 to a rally car that beat teams with $400k cars:

http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-50...k-rally-racers
__________________

__________________________________________________ ____________
e90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #128
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
75
Rep
6,775
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (4)

I have to say I didnt hate what he had to say..and the part about what the M division was in 70s, 80s, & 90s is right on..the main reason being there was much less competition for the Ms backs then...the M cars were quite literally leaps and bounds over the competition performance wise

Faster forward today and you got Mustangs and even Hyundais, and the like putting out serious power and the M brand has had to adapt from focusing just pure performance but also all the ghey crap that people get on these cars..alcantra steering wheels, indiviual colors, fuzzy dice..whatever..and this has compromised the M division's focus on producing strictly better performing car with each model year..there definitly is a cheesy quality now with all these packages, and performance development suffers as something has got to give.

Guys like me who live for the car to be all about the engine/suspension and how it drives forgo all the bells and whistles...my car doesnt even if have power seats and I wouldnt want it any other way..
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #129
Reznick
First Lieutenant
Reznick's Avatar
United_States
5
Rep
386
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 M3 ,2000 330
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Syracuse NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAM3 View Post
Can't say he doesn't have some valid points... but who the hell is this jalopnik guy? My e92 may be my last ///M
http://www.off-road.com/blog/2010/11...ace-baja-1000/
Bought a BMW off Craigslist for $500, converted it to compete in Baja 1000 and podiums....and no the e92 wont be your last M. A LOT of people said that when the E46 M3 was going out. Most of them now have E9x's M's, although I still love the the E46 M3

Last edited by Reznick; 07-10-2012 at 03:57 PM. Reason: added info
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #130
///MMB
Member
United_States
4
Rep
317
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 911 GT3 | 2014 M6 CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 VW Beetle  [0.00]
2014 BMW M6 cp  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

I keep getting back to the e46 CSL everytime I think about these "special editions"...now THAT was a car that really deserved some attention, but too bad that it never made it Stateside...
I agree the CSL is cool, but I can hear Jeramy clarkson now, "No radio, plastic instead of glass, card board in the trunk, and AC is an opition. You pay more to get less, it's going to get to the point where if you walk passed a BMW dealer they are going to charge you $1,000,000!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
http://www.off-road.com/blog/2010/11...ace-baja-1000/
Bought a car off Craigslist, converted it to compete in Baja and won....and no the e92 wont be your last M. A LOT of people said that when the E46 M3 was going out. Most of them now have E9x's M's, although I still love the the E46 M3
I've seen that as far back as the e36 ppl saying they wouldn't get an e46 bc it wasnt a true M, what with the four exhaust tips and all.
__________________
2014 M6 CP vert | 2014 991 911 GT3
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:54 PM   #131
r53s65e90
8300
r53s65e90's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
543
Posts

 
Drives: r53 s65e90
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (0)

As long as they make cars I want to drive I don't care where they slap M badges. The poser market is big. It is only understandable that they cater to it.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2012, 03:54 PM   #132
Double Bubble
Captain
Double Bubble's Avatar
No_Country
6
Rep
686
Posts

 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: States

iTrader: (0)

LOL, this post is getting epic.

Here are things I don't want to hear on this forum.

1. ///M for marketing?
It's people who are interested in the M brand/heritage not the other way around...

2. M5's fake sound?
Seriously, can we just drop this argument already?
So whenver youtube on the internet you automatically think all the sound it makes through the speaker is fake...?

3. ///M brand's being diluted?
Business is all about making profits and the goal is to maximize the profit. What is so wrong about this concept?

Some narrow-minded BMW enthusiasts...
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST