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      07-10-2012, 12:13 PM   #23
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Sounds like the marketing department is assassinating the M brand. Nice.
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      07-10-2012, 12:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
That dude needs to get laid. Seriously, I don't care much for the 'lime rock' edition either, but the lengths people will go to bitch about shit is beyond me.
Agree with you completely
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      07-10-2012, 12:17 PM   #25
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it's not a wrong point of view that Bill has laid out...

i might actually agree with his perspective, and would even admit myself to be one of those "poseurs" he talks about...

but to say death of the M-brand...
i would describe it more like a dilution of it...

a water-down and unwanted infiltration due to a democratization of the brand ...
... due to the greed of the brand for world domination...
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      07-10-2012, 12:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nandrega View Post
If the 'M brand' is more important than the actual vehicle itself for some people, then why wouldn't BMW take advantage of that and spread its appeal? I guess a better question would be, (and im not speaking to anyone in particular), but would you buy this exact same car, if it didnt say M3 on the back? I would.
+1

I buy cars for the driving experience and performance. I could care less who made the M3 or what brand logo it had on the trunk lid. If Kia made the M3, I'd be a proud Kia owner.
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      07-10-2012, 12:19 PM   #27
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in some ways. that dude is telling the truth. no company is too big too fall. however i believe bmw is heading the right direction financially by not being too innovative or crazy and launching a load of nonsense variants (porsche style) unlike eccentric saab, alfa romeo or citroen which eventually led to their demise.
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      07-10-2012, 12:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto2315 View Post
You think corporate ever reads stuff like this?
I guarantee you the M Brand manager reads stuff like this. Remember, that he may want the same lunatic model like an E46 CSL that we want to see, and he could be standing on the table shouting for it. Unfortunately he does not have access to the checkbook of BMWNA, and the board decides what goes ahead.

The article makes good points, and the M brand is being diluted. That will open the door for another performance model line above M at some point like AMG started the black series line and the cycle continues.

I don't want to see a rant about accountants either as though they control the direction of company and the products that go ahead. The executives as a group are responsible for ensuring the increase in value of the company and the return for the investors. They have clearly succeeded in this. In Bob Lutz book he also called out accountants as being the reason for warmed over products no one would buy and causing the ultimate demise of the company. This assumes that the accountants made all the strategic decisions for the company, including signing union deals...
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Last edited by WULFFZA; 07-10-2012 at 12:29 PM.
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      07-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I do think BMW is getting a little generous with the M Badges.
+1. Something has been lost here. If they are going to go this route with handing out the M badge then they need to do something like Audi did and introduce a new line like they did with the RS. They then need to make that new badge someting to be found on a only true motorsport car.
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      07-10-2012, 12:23 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nandrega View Post
I can't believe a company in the business of making money would want to maximize its profits.

There's a lot of talk about the ' death of the brand' of M, but it sounds like a lot of people are only interested in the car because of the badge itself says M. To me, that says status symbol. Which is, in my opinion, no better or worse than bmw slapping m badges on a 328 or 335. If the 'M brand' is more important than the actual vehicle itself for some people, then why wouldn't BMW take advantage of that and spread its appeal? I guess a better question would be, (and im not speaking to anyone in particular), but would you buy this exact same car, if it didnt say M3 on the back? I would.
I concur! The M is supposed to be about the performance, and I don't think anyone can question that in the 1 Series M, M3 or M5. Yes many people will think that the Xline as an M is silly, but the X5M is a beast if you've ever driven one. And over-branded or not, at the heart these are fantastic machines. I would drive an M5 no matter what it is badged as. Badge seekers are why brands such as Infinity or Lexus exist, when you don't think Toyota or Nissan is trendy enough. I would definitely never put an M vehicle in that category. And if that is your only motivation for buying a car, you're buying for the wrong reasons.
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      07-10-2012, 12:23 PM   #31
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I think the article was spot on.

BMW should have taken a note from Porsche. When the end of the 997 GT3 was at hand what did porsche do? Build the most badass limited edition 4liter 6 cylider GT3 ever produced. The GT3 4.0 is a work of art both from an aesthetics and engineering standpoint.

BMW dropped the ball hard on this one, and its sad when BMW builds a 4 liter v8 that dyno's 345rwhp.

Porsches standard GT3 3.8 liter 6 cylinder dyno's 420rwhp and last Hooraa GT3 4.0 makes 455rwhp bone stock.

Talk about a slap in BMW's face. Porsche's 4 liter, 6 cylinder, Normally aspirated is making Supercharged M3 power.

So BMW building a limited run of "TRACK" cars with nothing more then paint and some stickons is a slap in the face.

BMW \\\ step it up.
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      07-10-2012, 12:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WULFFZA View Post
I guarantee you the M Brand manager reads stuff like this. Remember, that he may want the same lunatic model like an E46 CSL that we want to see, and he could be standing on the table shouting for it. Unfortunately he does not have access to the checkbook of BMWNA and the board decides.
Working in Marketing, I 100% echo this sentiment. Companies build up scale, and unfortunately have to sell more cars to recognize earnings. Using the M brand helps sell more cars.
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      07-10-2012, 12:25 PM   #33
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dumb writeup from a smart guy....

as a quote states: "its much better for smart person to make a dumb comment then a dumb person try to make smart ones."

BMW is keeping up with technology and racer look for non racers is being true to the brand, not all of us here can afford to race our cars but its doesnt mean that we can't feel like it when we are driving them.

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      07-10-2012, 12:27 PM   #34
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I agree that M Badging is getting a little lax at BMW, but people can't say they would NOT buy this car without the M3 badge on the back just cause it is a top performer. The Mustang GT beats this car out at near half the price and guess why we don't all drive those. Cause it is a Mustang GT and NOT an M3. Careful what you say out there, there are MUCH better performing cars for less money than an M3...
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      07-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I do think BMW is getting a little generous with the M Badges.
+2... and I don't even own one.
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      07-10-2012, 12:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I do think BMW is getting a little generous with the M Badges.
I would have to agree there. There are so many M models coming out now, its hard to keep track. Ok, maybe not 1M,M3,M5,M6,X5m,X6m, but M135i, M235i, M550d, etc, etc.
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      07-10-2012, 12:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
That dude needs to get laid. Seriously, I don't care much for the 'lime rock' edition either, but the lengths people will go to bitch about shit is beyond me.
Completely agree, some people love to have something to bitch about and jalopnik seems to be made up of these kinds of people.

Btw, BMW is not the only car company diluting the brand with pointless 'edition' models.
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      07-10-2012, 12:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Derple View Post
I don't entirely agree with this. Yes they have to make money, but successful business models do not have to forgo convictions. Take, for example, Steve Jobs' stance against smut on apple devices. Media has been made/broken by the porn industry--VHS vs Beta being the prime instance. His position was to exclude porn from their devices as much as possible. Media history would say this is damning, but apple made it work.
While I agree with the beta/vhs point, I am not sure Apple was motivated by some moral POV. It is possible, but i think they exclude it for a different reason. Apple wants to own a share of the cashflow generated by apps as much as possible. Every in-app purchase gives a cut of the sale to apple. That is why you can't buy a kindle book through the kindle app anymore. You have to buy it through a browser (and send it to the kindle app) because Amazon doesn't want to share the revenues with Apple. The legal/reputational issues that could come from owning that slice of in-app sales in the porn business was maybe something that they were willing to forgo. It isn't like they block it on their browsers, not that I would know .
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      07-10-2012, 12:35 PM   #39
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I get what he is saying and in a lot of ways I agree with him but his argument sucked. The M division is not dead yet unless they screw up the M3/4.
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      07-10-2012, 12:35 PM   #40
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E39 M5. The last Ultimate driving machine :'(
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      07-10-2012, 12:35 PM   #41
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yaye more hits for him blehz
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      07-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #42
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I love how only 2 or 3 people in this thread even know who Caswell is. Personally, I think he's spot on. M isn't what it once was.
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      07-10-2012, 12:44 PM   #43
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There is no question that the BMW M brand is being over marketed, but for a long time BMW's cars were either complete plebeian models or M cars. The M styling and performance attributes need to trickle down for BMW to make exciting cars that people love, and they need to leverage the brand to create special models.

The problem is when BMW trickles down the M attributes or creates special models they risk wattering down the core of what being an M car means, and it's very hard to leverage a motorsports brand to for a street car.
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      07-10-2012, 12:45 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
sounds like a guy who can't afford an m car
no....sounds like a guy who loves cars and is pissed off that what he likes is losing its appeal.

I think the entire article can be summarized by saying he thinks BMW is selling out. It's no different than all the snowboard/skateboard companies who changed when NBC and ESPN came calling to put them on TV....

It waters down the brand....there is no question about that. We can now buy a 3 series and a 1 series with M badges all over them even though they're not M cars....and have no more power than the non-M models.

It's not hard to figure out why BMW is doing it and how it works.

He exclusivity of the M is waning. Now it's for anyone who can afford it. It used to be for anyone who loved cars and driving enough to make themself afford it. That's a big difference.
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