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      07-03-2012, 12:46 PM   #45

Drives: Z3 M Coupe, NB Miata
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SF Bay

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Originally Posted by 1trip5 View Post
Sold my 135i for an E46 M3. No turning back. Newer does not always equal better.
love my "old" cars (and think it's funny that even an E46 qualifies as old in these parts.. as much as I love the E46, it seems new to me). I wouldn't think twice about taking the Z3M on a cross country roadtrip, tomorrow. Everyone thinks they 'need' the latest gadgets to be safe and have a reliable car and blah blah blah. It's like the gated community mindset, where the safest communities in the country still hire private security patrols. Fear begets fear.
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      07-03-2012, 03:15 PM   #46

Drives: '07 335 E90
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NC

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I'll plug my old '95 M3 on its driving virtues.

Only e36 with:

-no traction control
-LSD (obviously)
-"Simple" ABS (I think rear was one channel)

I admit I wax nostalgic for it, but do not miss it.

Of course someone go an throw in the e30M3 as an even more pure driving experience.

'07 335i E90 blue/brown/stock/stick/sport/stuff
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      07-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #47

Drives: VO 1M
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC

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Originally Posted by Neph View Post

the manual trans offers a relationship btwn driver and car which a soulless automatic/DCT/manumatic can NEVER touch.

the addition of unnecessary technology simply offers another layer of barriers between driver and car.

unfortunately, the rulemaking beuracrats and marketing/focus group leaders all the same transmission with all the same tech goodies - guess which ones?
people like the above poster seem like non-enthusiasts who simply want to categorize the things they don't understand. have you ever driven a dual-clutch gearbox? I hope you do realize it is very different than an Automatic.

The best sports cars in the world come with dual-clutch gearboxes at the moment. The manual had it's day....that day has come and gone. European enthusiasts are lusting after dual clutch gearboxes right now, and i'm guessing american enthusiasts will take another 10 years to catch up----as usual. *sigh*
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      07-05-2012, 02:41 PM   #48

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

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This is an impossible question to answer in a broad sense. Whether or not something is "worse" depends on your perspective. I think that even for enthusiasts, the technological safety nets on modern cars are a good thing. Statistically, we're all biased to believe we're better drivers than we really are. There are certain people for whom the technology limits how fast they can drive, but for the vast majority of people, it's a good thing it's there. I'm among them, even though I consider myself an enthusiast.

For example, I owned a 1984 MR2 (non-supercharged). It was not a "fast" car by any measure, but it was mid-engine, no ABS, no power steering. The car lacked any kind of technology, and thus connected the driver directly to the road... It also nearly killed me on more than one occasion. I ended up driving it in to the back of a Ford pick-up that crossed three lanes of traffic, only to stop in front of me immediately following a rain storm (wet roads, truck out of nowhere, oh boy!).

Contrast that with my all time favorite daily driver, my 2006 VW GTI. The GTI also felt well connected with good steering feedback and tight turn-in (close to the MR2), but it never scared me like the MR2. The GTI would not snap understeer/oversteer if I got the braking balance wrong. The GTI wouldn't plow through a short-yellow if I failed to modulate the brakes properly. The GTI was 90% of the fun of the MR2 without 90% of the risk. For the vast majority of drivers, I can't see how that's making cars "worse".
His: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
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