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      07-02-2012, 06:03 AM   #1
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NEED Help ASAP! Tire sizing...

Ok guys, really need some help.

I have winter set up with sport edition A7 wheels (8 and 9). I recently have broken down and decided to get track tires! I talked to this one shop, and here is what I got:
"the 8 and 9 are too narrow, you can only put 245/265 on there, and those tires are too skinny. You really should be going for 265/285. If you go with 245 front, your car will understeer a lot"

I know I know, I should have some track wheels, but... I have a lot of other expenses going out, so buying a set of wheels is out of the budget. Am I really going to be that screwed with 245/265? Can I go a bit wider with A7's?

The tire options are Toyo R888's, Dunlop Dirreza, Pilot Cup's. I am leaning towards R888's (cause of the price), but the shop is saying that the car is too heavy for those tires, and they will get destroyed very fast. Dirreza's are $2k vs $1.4 for R888.


Please help... oh, and I'm stock suspension, ESS 575kit, and I will be tracking Nurburgring.
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      07-02-2012, 06:19 AM   #2
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For me, the biggest advantage of going towards track wheels is the ability to run a square set-up. This allows me to rotate the tires and extend their life. Further, such a set-up also dials out a lot of the M3 anoying understeer. IMO, 245 up front are a bit too narrow and tend to roll over under load and wear their outside edges faster.
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      07-02-2012, 08:28 AM   #3
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Buy some APEX ARC-8 18 x 10 wheels that go straight on without spacers or centering rings. You can mount 275/35s on these and rotate wheels, or stick 275s on the front and 295's on the back. Your 8/9 aren't going to cut it (especially with the SC - you are never going to have enough grip for the torque) - they are designed for a different purpose - so you are going to end up buying new rims anyway!
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      07-02-2012, 10:26 AM   #4
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If you are stuck on tracking your car with 8inch front rims and 9inch rears it is doable. It will just be a good lesson in traction management. To be honest you are only losing .5 inches from the stock sizes, will still keep the same tire sizes as stock, and the tires will be better.

Go with the R888, they have a fat shoulder, will be wider than the others, and are 100 treadware R-comps. If you go with those tires you will have better traction than a stock M3 on 18s $ PS2s, which people track on all the time. Even though the car is supercharged, it will still act like a high revving M3, you will just have to manage throttle and inputs.
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      07-02-2012, 01:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merked M3 View Post
If you are stuck on tracking your car with 8inch front rims and 9inch rears it is doable. It will just be a good lesson in traction management. To be honest you are only losing .5 inches from the stock sizes, will still keep the same tire sizes as stock, and the tires will be better.

Go with the R888, they have a fat shoulder, will be wider than the others, and are 100 treadware R-comps. If you go with those tires you will have better traction than a stock M3 on 18s $ PS2s, which people track on all the time. Even though the car is supercharged, it will still act like a high revving M3, you will just have to manage throttle and inputs.

whew, you are really keeping me motivated, cause I was about to just say screw it... I really enjoy going to the ring, but being that I'm in the military, all these costs add up quick.... track wheels, tires, brakes, tire storage/mount dismount... If I can eliminate one of the variables, it would greatly ease the burden.

That wheel shop told me that R888's are no good for the m3 cause it's too heavy, and would eat through the tires really quick.... but at this point, the price really puts them on top ($1k vs 2k for dunlop's).

So what tire sizes should I get (can I get) with those wheels? 245/30/18 and 265/30/18 or 35 sidewall? Is a wider tire not possible on 8/9 wheel?

I don't want to beat myself in the chest much, but I run 8:10 BTG on street tires, stock brakes and stock suspension.
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      07-02-2012, 01:58 PM   #6
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Posted in wrong thread, sorry.
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      07-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #7
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265/235 R888 if you must stick to those wheels. 8 inch fronts isn't preferable though. (I'm assuming 19's, R888 does not come in 245 or 255 19)
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      07-02-2012, 08:24 PM   #8
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For $2k you can get 4 lightweight Apex Arc-8s 18x10, plus 4 Nitto NT-01s 275/35/18 square, for the same price as just the skinny Dunlops.

With the ESS SC you might consider the 10" up front, but 10.5" or even 11" on rear for 295, maybe 305s. However, the 10" square will be the most economical setup for you in the long run considering rotation ability.
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      07-03-2012, 12:36 AM   #9
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^ might be able to go that route. Can you recommend a vendor?

Is it ok to drive nt-01 to the track? Nring is about 200miles both ways....
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      07-03-2012, 12:53 AM   #10
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also, what offset? 25?

will 275 rub in the front?

I currently have 255/35/19 Conti 5P's, and they rub a lot.
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      07-03-2012, 05:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper519 View Post
For $2k you can get 4 lightweight Apex Arc-8s 18x10, plus 4 Nitto NT-01s 275/35/18 square, for the same price as just the skinny Dunlops.
We have a winner!. Great suggestion. The Nittos would probably be ideal--relatively cheap, great grip, they communicate fairly well, and they last a long time. Plus, I've heard a lot of people at the track complain about the Toyo R888. They say the Toyos are pretty greasy. Supposedly the Nitto NT01s are based on a construction similar to the Toyos, but apparently it's different enough that the Nittos are almost universally liked whereas the Toyos definitely are not.

In terms of driving the tires to the Ring, driving the Nittos on the streets/highways would be no different than driving the Toyos in that setting. I believe some forum members in California daily-drive the Nittos. But it's probably not the best idea--the compound is too soft and you would be more prone to pick up road debris. So just throw your Apex/Nittos in the car with a jack and torque wrench and drive to the Ring on your street tires like many of us do for track events. Take advantage of the utility this car offers--can't do that in a Cayman or Exige!
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      07-03-2012, 06:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotik View Post
also, what offset? 25?

will 275 rub in the front?

I currently have 255/35/19 Conti 5P's, and they rub a lot.
I believe the Apex wheels are a 25mm offset in the 18x10 square setup. Paired with 275/35-18 Nitto NT01s all around, no rubbing. Tons of people have this setup.
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      07-03-2012, 08:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
We have a winner!. Great suggestion. The Nittos would probably be ideal--relatively cheap, great grip, they communicate fairly well, and they last a long time. Plus, I've heard a lot of people at the track complain about the Toyo R888. They say the Toyos are pretty greasy. Supposedly the Nitto NT01s are based on a construction similar to the Toyos, but apparently it's different enough that the Nittos are almost universally liked whereas the Toyos definitely are not.

In terms of driving the tires to the Ring, driving the Nittos on the streets/highways would be no different than driving the Toyos in that setting. I believe some forum members in California daily-drive the Nittos. But it's probably not the best idea--the compound is too soft and you would be more prone to pick up road debris. So just throw your Apex/Nittos in the car with a jack and torque wrench and drive to the Ring on your street tires like many of us do for track events. Take advantage of the utility this car offers--can't do that in a Cayman or Exige!


Thank you all. This seems like a very good option and within my budget($2k)... although I can't find the combo cheaper than $2400 shipped to APO. Can you recommend a vendor that sells both items, and at a reasonable price?

Tomorrow I'm heading to the tuner to see what are my options for my DD E30 320i. If it's competitive with the price of wheels/tires I might sway towards track prepping the E30 (it is just too much fun to drive). It seems that at the end of the day M3 is quite pricey to track... but we'll see.
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      07-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotik View Post
Thank you all. This seems like a very good option and within my budget($2k)... although I can't find the combo cheaper than $2400 shipped to APO. Can you recommend a vendor that sells both items, and at a reasonable price?

Tomorrow I'm heading to the tuner to see what are my options for my DD E30 320i. If it's competitive with the price of wheels/tires I might sway towards track prepping the E30 (it is just too much fun to drive). It seems that at the end of the day M3 is quite pricey to track... but we'll see.
I'm also interested in where you can spend $2k for the mentioned setup.

In case this doesn't work out. Don't run 245/265 on 8/9 rims. The tires are too wide for the rims and you'll hurt traction, tire wear, and steering feel. For an rcomp on those wheels you're looking at 235/255 max! Proper sizes would be 225/245.

Can you buy another pair of 9" rims and go with 255 on all four cornes and keep the two 8s for spares incase something happens at the track and you need to get home.
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      07-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #15
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I never liked the 888's, even though they have the identical compound rubber as the NT01s. The carcass of the NT01 is so much sweeter for a track tire.

I'd schlep the wheels/tires to the 'ring if you can store them safely once you get there. I can't imagine driving on the autobahn in the rain on NT01s. Especially worn NT01s.

If it were me, I'd get some extreme performance street tires (Dunlops for excellent performance and favorable price point...?) on the stock wheels and call it good. Pull the alignment pins out and push your struts in all the way at the top for better negative camber, and by a happy coincidence, reduced toe-in up front.

If you are running 8:10's, then Angst Kurve must be a real pucker. The fox hole must be ridiculous too, especially if you are running stock brake pads. Yikes!
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      07-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #16
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I don't think you can clear 275/35/18 NT01s on stock suspension.
Running R comps isn't a great start

Nt05 if you want to stay with nitto, or RS3s. Even Dunlop SS.
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      07-19-2012, 05:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
I never liked the 888's, even though they have the identical compound rubber as the NT01s. The carcass of the NT01 is so much sweeter for a track tire.

I'd schlep the wheels/tires to the 'ring if you can store them safely once you get there. I can't imagine driving on the autobahn in the rain on NT01s. Especially worn NT01s.

If it were me, I'd get some extreme performance street tires (Dunlops for excellent performance and favorable price point...?) on the stock wheels and call it good. Pull the alignment pins out and push your struts in all the way at the top for better negative camber, and by a happy coincidence, reduced toe-in up front.

If you are running 8:10's, then Angst Kurve must be a real pucker. The fox hole must be ridiculous too, especially if you are running stock brake pads. Yikes!
NT01 are RA1 compound. R888 are unique.
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      07-19-2012, 08:02 PM   #18
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I don't think you can clear 275/35/18 NT01s on stock suspension.
Running R comps isn't a great start

Nt05 if you want to stay with nitto, or RS3s. Even Dunlop SS.
The Nitto NT-01s in 275/35/18 clear just fine on stock suspension, no rubbing. I really like the tire. My local guy got em for me @ $261/ea.

I got my Apex Arc-8s in the group buy in Feb, so 15% off there.

So total was ~$2150 for the whole set.
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      07-19-2012, 10:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper519 View Post
The Nitto NT-01s in 275/35/18 clear just fine on stock suspension, no rubbing. I really like the tire. My local guy got em for me @ $261/ea.

I got my Apex Arc-8s in the group buy in Feb, so 15% off there.

So total was ~$2150 for the whole set.
Damn I guess E92s have more clearance then.

What're your alignment settings?
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      07-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Damn I guess E92s have more clearance then.

What're your alignment settings?
I have GC camber plates w/ stock springs and struts.

Front: camber -2.5 / toe 1/16" in (I adjust tie rod for 1/16"out for track)
Rear: camber -2.0 / total toe 1/16" in / 12mm spacers

No rubbing at full lock.
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      07-20-2012, 08:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper519 View Post
I have GC camber plates w/ stock springs and struts.

Front: camber -2.5 / toe 1/16" in (I adjust tie rod for 1/16"out for track)
Rear: camber -2.0 / total toe 1/16" in / 12mm spacers

No rubbing at full lock.
Then you're not on stock suspension as the GC camber plates modifies your suspension

You cannot get -2.5 on stock suspension

That's why I said you cannot clear NT01s on stock suspension, which generally taps out at -1.3, up to -1.7 on some cars with the pins removed
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      07-21-2012, 02:54 PM   #22
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True, but I ran this setup for 2 track days before I put on the camber plates and still had no problems. I don't think this is an uncommon setup.
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