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      06-29-2012, 06:08 PM   #23
M_Six
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Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
Well said. You have really good points. You cannot just expect to completely change the current system without there being any type of "buffer zone" or time for everything to adapt, or there will be a "traffic jam" type effect in play. This will obviously create chaos in the order people recieve care, and how long one must wait.

The next question I (and many) have is: How is all of this going to be funded? I don't think it's fair at all. It really just drills into your head; "Why am I working so hard? So I can pay for a high school dropout flipping burgers at Wendy's, healthcare??" The system is just unbalanced and unfair, and really gives you a slap in the face for working hard.
You're already paying for the high school dropout's health care. He may not pay a dime, but the hospital or doctor just folds the unpaid bill into charges for those who have insurance or pay with their own funds. Like someone said earlier, the alternative to this is letting people die on the streets. That's just not going to happen here.

The theory behind this new health care plan (and I'm not claiming it'll work), is that if everyone has their own insurance, the costs will be spread among everyone and theoretically reduce costs for everyone. Whether that works or not remains to be seen. As far as wait times, granted, there will be more people seeking medical procedures who might have not done so without insurance. One would think this would lead to a big jump in demand for medically trained people. This might well lead to job growth all across the healthcare sectors, as well as the pharmaceutical and medical supply sectors. But until/unless that ramp-up is successful, there will be some difficulties receiving elective care, no doubt.

The big problem with this plan, as with all plans that attempt to satisfy too many demands, is that no one is really satisfied with it. Re-writing the tax code (if that ever happens) will end up being equally panned by most people.

The thing is, something had to be done. Every year there are more and more people going without health insurance, so those with health insurance and those who are wealthy enough to pay out-of-pocket will have to suck up more and more of the costs incurred by those who are uninsured. That will cause insurance rates to continue to climb to the point where most people or companies will no longer be able to afford any coverage at all. Where does that leave us?
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      06-29-2012, 06:15 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
Proper studies involving thousands of sample points can often paint a more accurate picture than the anecdotes of a friend or relative...



"The results of this year’s survey indicate that despite high levels of health expenditure and provincial wait time strategies, it is clear that patients in Canada are waiting too long to receive treatment."
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/publi...?id=2147484001


"It's becoming clearer that Canada's current health-care system cannot meet the needs of Canadians in a timely and efficient manner, unless you consider access to a waiting list timely and efficient"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/...es-fraser.html


"One dimension of the ECHI in which Canada fared particularly poorly was waiting times for medical services. In fact, Canada was among the very worst performers in this component of the index."
http://www.fcpp.org/publication.php/3222


And keep in mind, Canada has had universal health care for decades, so the system has had ample time to grow to meet the demands of the increasing population. What happens if you dump tens of millions of new people into the system at once, rather than the slow increase normally associated with population growth?

I dunno, it just seems to me that the likelihood of this causing a huge strain and backlogs on the system is higher than the chances of it absorbing this huge spike smoothly. That will decrease the quality of care for everybody.

Good list of sources. It could be that my cousins (who are indeed a tiny sample set) have not required elective procedures and therefore have not had any wait times to complain about. I've only had one elective procedure (butt scope) in many years, and we live in rural America where I can see my doctor in a day or two and have a procedure scheduled for next week if need be. So again, I have no complaints. It's certainly not that way in other places, though. I understand that.

I can't say why Canada has not been able to adjust to the demand. You would think it would be a boon to the healthcare sector job market, but maybe the med school grads can make more in the US, so they don't go back to Canada? I don't know.
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      06-29-2012, 07:25 PM   #25
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I can't say why Canada has not been able to adjust to the demand. You would think it would be a boon to the healthcare sector job market, but maybe the med school grads can make more in the US, so they don't go back to Canada? I don't know.
Certainly there is some "brain-drain" of Canadian doctors who move south to enjoy both higher wages and lower taxes.

However, based on what I've read, it's not as if there are thousands of vacant, yet funded openings, and they cant find doctors & nurses to take them because they are all leaving the country. A single-payer system like Canada means the Gov pays for medical services, which it does from tax revenue.

So, if the demand for medical care goes up, then the only way to pay for more supply is to increase the tax revenue. Declining birthrate + boomers starting to retire = flatlined tax revenue at the same time as increasing need for more tax revenue. You see this in many single-payer universal healthcare countries in Europe too, as boomers need more care at the same time they stop working and thus pay less taxes. Now you have a really difficult math problem, that will only get worse over the next 20 years.

Reducing wait times for elective procedures requires more doctors, nurses, and hospital beds. How do you pay for it without big increases in taxes for those still working? Introducing changes like that wont get you re-elected, especially when voters are struggling to make ends meet as it is now with the global economic situation.
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      06-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #26
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The next question I (and many) have is: How is all of this going to be funded? I don't think it's fair at all. It really just drills into your head; "Why am I working so hard? So I can pay for a high school dropout flipping burgers at Wendy's, healthcare??" The system is just unbalanced and unfair, and really gives you a slap in the face for working hard.
Dude, remember the individual mandate, you know, the thing you thought was unconstitutional? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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      06-29-2012, 09:13 PM   #27
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i am dying to see how many people screaming how they are packing their shit right this minute and leaving this terrible, socialist country ran by a muslim would actually follow through with that... my suspicion is that every single one of you would just shut the fuck up and keep on living here.
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