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      06-26-2012, 11:54 PM   #45
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      06-27-2012, 02:31 AM   #46
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for me it's infineon all the way. so much technical pieces to the track and it's always comin at you, you don't have time to think much.

thunderhill is great for a precisionist. there's a bunch of turns that challenge you to nail it perfectly and reward you with some great times.

laguna is great for a novelties sake, but i felt that it's a brake hard, turn, take a straight kinda track. i wouldn't like to pay the premium often for laguna.
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      06-27-2012, 05:06 PM   #47
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for me it's infineon all the way. so much technical pieces to the track and it's always comin at you, you don't have time to think much.
100% agreed! I don't if that makes any sense at all but I feel Sonoma is more high pace than the other two. It's just intense.
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      06-28-2012, 11:46 AM   #48
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for me it's infineon all the way. so much technical pieces to the track and it's always comin at you, you don't have time to think much.

thunderhill is great for a precisionist. there's a bunch of turns that challenge you to nail it perfectly and reward you with some great times.

laguna is great for a novelties sake, but i felt that it's a brake hard, turn, take a straight kinda track. i wouldn't like to pay the premium often for laguna.
I totally agree with the "brake hard, turn, kinda straight" don't get me wrong it's a great track but Laguna makes me want a higher horsepower car because of all the straights.
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      07-01-2012, 01:47 PM   #49
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I want to make a trip out to Cali to drive, is CFRA a good group to go with for a DE?
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      07-02-2012, 12:01 AM   #50
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I want to make a trip out to Cali to drive, is CFRA a good group to go with for a DE?
DE on June 17th was my first CFRA and were pretty good. NorCal folks should be able to give you better feedback on CFRA.

Stay the hell away from NorCal NASA events.
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      07-02-2012, 10:51 AM   #51
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Stay the hell away from NorCal NASA events.
I would disagree with this comment. I've been with NASA for nearly 3 years and grew up in the system. If you take advantage of the different instructors and be open for comments and feedback, you can learn a lot.

I appreciate how NASA runs their events, especially the fact that you can get to know the other drivers pretty well in each group. The download sessions are helpful to make sure everyone is on the same page and also to get to know the other drivers you're with. I've been to NASA, NCRC, and CFRA in NorCal and the one thing I wasn't a fan of for NCRC and CFRA is that you have no clue who the other drivers are. If I were to be picky about NASA, it's that they're very much a racing organization. You won't get as much HPDE time as other groups.
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      07-02-2012, 11:32 AM   #52
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I would disagree with this comment. I've been with NASA for nearly 3 years and grew up in the system. If you take advantage of the different instructors and be open for comments and feedback, you can learn a lot.

I appreciate how NASA runs their events, especially the fact that you can get to know the other drivers pretty well in each group. The download sessions are helpful to make sure everyone is on the same page and also to get to know the other drivers you're with. I've been to NASA, NCRC, and CFRA in NorCal and the one thing I wasn't a fan of for NCRC and CFRA is that you have no clue who the other drivers are. If I were to be picky about NASA, it's that they're very much a racing organization. You won't get as much HPDE time as other groups.
Way too many cars in their HPDE. Must have been 50+ in group 3 at Infineon. Good if your objective is to dice (which is something they seem to encourage since they never talked about cooperative passing), but awful if you're looking for clean laps.

Also too many cars with mechanical issues. Nearly lost it because of a coolant spill and also got sprayed with someone's oil.

I heard it was a bit more open in group 4, but my track insurance specifically excludes 4, presumably with good reason.

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      07-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #53
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I would disagree with this comment. I've been with NASA for nearly 3 years and grew up in the system. If you take advantage of the different instructors and be open for comments and feedback, you can learn a lot.

I appreciate how NASA runs their events, especially the fact that you can get to know the other drivers pretty well in each group. The download sessions are helpful to make sure everyone is on the same page and also to get to know the other drivers you're with. I've been to NASA, NCRC, and CFRA in NorCal and the one thing I wasn't a fan of for NCRC and CFRA is that you have no clue who the other drivers are. If I were to be picky about NASA, it's that they're very much a racing organization. You won't get as much HPDE time as other groups.
Firstly, I want to emphasize that my comments are towards "NorCal" NASA in particular and NOT towards NASA in general, as I have no idea on how NASA in other regions runs things.

In any case, way~ too many cars on the track (granted, this observation is based on just one event with NorCal NASA). With that many drivers, how is it possible to get to know all other drivers? The # of drivers present is evidenced by the sheer # of staff & instructors present (must've been over 50 of them on that day).

And the apparent lack of timely administrative oversight on new attendees. On the day before the Jun 16th Infineon event, a bunch of us from SoCal were tracking at Thunderhill and we started getting calls & emails from someone at NorCal NASA (we later found out it was one of their big wigs) questioning our qualifications. It was odd to us that their online registration system (1) allowed drivers who've not tracked with them before to register into certain run groups, (2) allowed drivers who've not tracked at Infineon to also register into certain run groups, and (3) then get these phone calls the day before the event. And then, when I tried to change the run group in the morning of the event, holy sh*t, trying to talk to the right person after the initial drivers meeting is over is like trying to wade through the governmental, bureaucratic maze - got bounced around by 4 different staff members, then was told to go up to the 4th floor office at the grand stand, etc, etc, which lead to my missing the first session of the day. So, between missing out on a session and subsequent sessions being filled with LOTS of cars, I didn't get a chance to get a feel for this track, and hence my lukewarm first impression.

As for the "If you take advantage of the different instructors and be open for comments and feedback, you can learn a lot" bit, how is this different from any other event organizers?

The download sessions you mentioned is fraught with staffs (who, for the most part, are retired folks with too much time on their hands) arguing with each other & drivers --> "I have been tracking since 1961, blah blah blah," "Do you know how long I have been here?!," "You were doing it wrong! I have been racing here for 30 years and I saw some accidents happen at that turn, you shouldn't pass there!"

By the way, which other organizers have you run with, and how many events with each of these other organizers?
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      07-02-2012, 03:36 PM   #54
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I can't stand NASA and I've given them a couple chances

My first time with NASA SoCal they spent the driver's and download meetings talking about/comparing themselves to Speed Ventures. WTH?! I thought it was so lame for the organizer(s) to be so insecure about their own group.
I run with Speedventures a whole lot and not once have I heard NASA (or any other group) being brought up by the organizers during a meeting.

NASA people also tend to be stuck up and unapproachable (not to mention fun-killing strict)

A friend on mine came up all the way to BW. Bucket seats with OE 3pt belt was a no go for them. Having driven all the way to the track my friend sucked it up and got a harness and had it installed on the spot ($$$). Missed the first session or two before the car was ready and when it finally was NASA was like "oh it's your first time, you need an instructor, you need a harness on the passenger seat too" - Holy **** are you ****ing kidding me? Couldn't you have said it before? So much time and money wasted. 0 track time.

My first time with NASA NorCal; again the driver's meetings were unbearable, listening to those guys ramble on and on about the same thing, about their past, repeating the same thing dozens of times. We get it you're an old timer and you've been around, spare me your life story; I'm here to have fun not to get bored to death. Holy crap, I've never wanted to kill myself during a download meeting until NASA.

Unapproachable staff again. There was a seemingly noob in a stock RSX in HPDE4, on which I initiated a pass on the front straight (Sonoma). We was mid-track/left and I had more than ample space to pass between him and the wall. Out of nowhere the guy swerves towards the wall and give me a point by to it (yes to the wall). You couldn't fit a bicyle if you tried. I know this has nothing to do with NASA but the point is I wanted to talk with him and the staff. Gave up after a couple of failed attempts. Guy was just not interested.

Download meetings to me = drivers do most of the talking, sharing, discussing, what happened, etc. I don't go to those meetings to hear a old man ramble about 1965.

Anyways- I could deal with the meetings and the people if we were given lots of track time. NASA = 4 sessions, end of story.

Other groups you get longer sessions, or 5 sessions. Hell with CFRA @ Laguna Seca we got 5 25-30minutes sessions. Close to two hours and a half worth of track time.

I'm sorry but NASA can suck it. I'll only run with them if I have no other options.
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