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      06-20-2012, 09:04 PM   #1
highyo
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Track Prep

i'm sure this is has been answered many times but i figured why not start a new thread, if i have to read another Mod thread i might throw up

anyway, can the board recommend what i need to do with my car to prepare it for a day at the track? i think closest to me would be limerock, though maybe i can sneak up to monticello to see the facility, it's a touch closer to the city.

so what? brake pads? oil? new tires the next day? it's a waste not to track this car.
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      06-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #2
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I went stock to get a feel for the car.

Went with new pads and brake fluid the second time around followed up with track wheels. Getting SS brake lines and camber plates installed before heading out next time.

Want to get brake cooling ducts, wheel stud kit, and new tires in the near future.
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      06-20-2012, 09:28 PM   #3
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Depends on your experience, if you're a rookie or first time out, just change your brake fluid to a race fluid (higher boiling temp). As long as you have decent tread on your tires, pad/rotor life left and you're not close to an oil change you're good to go.

Yes this car does need to be tracked
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      06-20-2012, 09:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ec_E92 View Post
Depends on your experience, if you're a rookie or first time out, just change your brake fluid to a race fluid (higher boiling temp). As long as you have decent tread on your tires, pad/rotor life left and you're not close to an oil change you're good to go.

Yes this car does need to be tracked
Yea it's hard to imagine a first timer needing anything more than just a properly maintained car with enough tire tread and brake pads. If you go through tires on your first time out you are probably trying way too hard and just understeering at every corner.
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      06-20-2012, 09:41 PM   #5
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One word of caution from my first track outing with my M3 - and perhaps this is dependant on experience, but I wore the outside of my tires pretty badly (thankfully not enough to warrant replacement) and plan on dialing in as much negative camber as I can before my next track day. This car with a factory alignment is certainly good, but I felt the setup induce some understeer and bad tire wear patterns that indicate to me too little camber. So it may be advisable to get an alignment done before you go to pre-empt the issue I had.
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      06-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #6
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Actually I'm not sure why nobody mentioned this but you should pump the tires up to about 3 pounds under maximum (47 lbs if I recall correctly) unless you want to roll around on the tread corners and chunk your tires. Standard pressure simply isn't enough once you push the car in the corners. After your track session let several pounds of air out (~ 5) since they air will be heated/rarefied and you'll have elevated pressures that will promote premature wearing of the center of the tire with normal street use.

Enjoy!
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      06-21-2012, 01:53 AM   #7
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^ I don't want to be offensive but where did you get that idea? I don't know what the normal PSI recommendation is for the M3's but the tires build up heat and increase the pressure with track use. In FL, I've seen the tires go up about 12 PSI from the beginning to the end of the session.

If you carry too much pressure, let alone the fact that you may actually blow up the tire but there is also the fact that the tire's surface will be rounder therefore decreasing your contact patch with the road and actually making the handling worse.
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      06-21-2012, 02:23 AM   #8
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Here are some quick facts about tires:

1- Every tires operating (or I'd call it optimum performance) temperature is different. It is not brand specific, rather model specific (depending on the rubber compound, sidewall stiffness, thread pattern, etc.)

2- On a track you will be building heat into the tires, leading the pressure to rise. I would STRONGLY advise staying below 40 psi HOT! Meaning when you come off the track at the middle or towards the end of the session without the cool down laps.

Another fact to consider into heat building within the tire is the weight of the car. The less weight you have on the tire, the less strain the tire will have resulting in a less heat build. Considering I've seen an increase of 12 psi in a 3,250 lbs GT3 in summer heat, an M3 weighing over 3,600 lbs will build even more.

3- Over inflating the tire creates the risk of blowing it up. Even if you don't blow it up, the area of the tire where it makes contact with the road (also called: contact patch) is reduced. This will result in bad handling.

4- Under inflation of the tire will result in sloppiness caused by the tire not retaining enough pressure for the side walls to retain the rigidity. That is why when people let air out of their tires before a track session do not push their cars for the first few laps until their tires warm up and reach their optimum performing pressure.

5- Retaining the pressure of the tires below 40 psi HOT, experiment with the pressure. Like I said, every tires operating temperature is different so it will take some time for you to find the sweet spot.

What I would suggest is before going in the track for the first session, set your tires to about 35 psi cold. Go out for about 4-5 laps and come in hot into the hot pit and check your tire pressures. If above 40 let some pressure off. Towards the end of the first session before the cool down laps come in again and do the same.

Remember that as the day progresses the temperature of the track itself will increase with the air temperature and the cars that are on the track. So 40 psi HOT in the morning will not likely mean 40 psi HOT in the afternoon

Be safe and have fun.
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      06-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #9
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i am also trying to figure out what brake pads to buy
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      06-21-2012, 11:17 AM   #10
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Yup, tire pressure profiles are specific to the combination of tire and car. Yes, your pressure will increase on the track. No, I've never ever seen a tire blow out on the few tracks I've run in CA and WA. What I have seen and experienced are destroyed street tires because they weren't inflated higher than standard. While you do theoretically have less contact patch the reality is you won't. We're not talking pressures that put the tread out of round. What you will find on high speed corners with lower pressures is that your tread corners are much more important than the patch and this is where you will end up missing chunks of tire down to the cord because you're rolling the tread over with lower pressures (I found this out the hard way when I destroyed a new set of PS2s with about 40 minutes of track use - once.) You need higher pressure in order to not roll the tires in the corners where they do the most work, not the straights.

For perspective, I'm talking purely about max performance summer tires, not racing compounds. Also, my tire pressure doesn't rise more than 6-7 pounds but I'm running in a cooler environment than most in WA state so if you guys are seeing 12 lb bumps I would imagine it makes sense to start lower than the numbers I mentioned - even then I can't imagine starting under 40 lbs cold.
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      06-21-2012, 11:44 AM   #11
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Performance Friction 01s is what I would recommend - myself including countless other members used these on stock calipers and had/have success.
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      06-21-2012, 12:47 PM   #12
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Ask 10 drivers about tire pressure, and you will get 10 different answers - none of which is incorrect. When it comes to the rubber hitting the road, tire type, size, driving ability and style all have input values.

My tires are BFG Gforce R1 compound, 275X35X18, heat cycled at Tirerack, sq set up. I set pressure to 34 front, 33 rear cold seeking hot 42 front, 39 rear. My car seems to be happy at those pressures. I check them after each session, and adjust as required.

Diddo on the brake pads. PF 01 are my choice.
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      06-21-2012, 12:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_D View Post
Performance Friction 01s is what I would recommend - myself including countless other members used these on stock calipers and had/have success.
Are these track only or both track and street. i want to push the car a bit. the last time i did, i screwed the rotors. i definitely want to avoid that.
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      06-21-2012, 01:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdollie View Post
Actually I'm not sure why nobody mentioned this but you should pump the tires up to about 3 pounds under maximum (47 lbs if I recall correctly) unless you want to roll around on the tread corners and chunk your tires. Standard pressure simply isn't enough once you push the car in the corners. After your track session let several pounds of air out (~ 5) since they air will be heated/rarefied and you'll have elevated pressures that will promote premature wearing of the center of the tire with normal street use.

Enjoy!
47 cold? Please tell me that is a typo...

EDIT: Looks like that wasn't a typo. Seriously bad advice and dangerous to run pressures that high. 47 cold for a PS2 would wind up around mid-50s psi hot.
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      06-21-2012, 01:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Are these track only or both track and street. i want to push the car a bit. the last time i did, i screwed the rotors. i definitely want to avoid that.
Great pads, phenomenal track performance with OEM brakes. You can use them on the street but they will be pretty harsh on the rotors and you'll be competing with buses and garbage trucks for loudest brakes.
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      06-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by besiktas View Post
Are these track only or both track and street. i want to push the car a bit. the last time i did, i screwed the rotors. i definitely want to avoid that.
You can certainly push. I ran them on my GT3, they last.

They squeal like pigs on the street though
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      06-21-2012, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
47 cold? Please tell me that is a typo...

EDIT: Looks like that wasn't a typo. Seriously bad advice and dangerous to run pressures that high. 47 cold for a PS2 would wind up around mid-50s psi hot.
I agree.

When I ran my r-comp Toyo RA1s (245/40/18F 305/35/18R) the optimum pressure was 32F & 34R. The wear was even across the thread. That is where alignment comes into play.

I used to run Bridgestone RE-11's on the track for a while, if I remember correctly the optimum pressure for those were about 36F & 38R.

The wear on the tires mostly have to do with your cars weight, suspension and alignment setting. As I said on my earlier post, carrying too little pressure will cause the sidewalls to work incorrectly, meaning the tire will roll on it's side and the steering feel will be numb.

I remember going out on the track with 22F & 24R cold on RA1.
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      06-21-2012, 01:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Great pads, phenomenal track performance with OEM brakes. You can use them on the street but they will be pretty harsh on the rotors and you'll be competing with buses and garbage trucks for loudest brakes.
I want to protect my rotors, i realized they are very expensive to replace. I was thinking of carbotech xp10 or xp12.
after my track session on VIR full course i hated that when braking i had vibration on the wheels. i dont want to replace rotors again



Quote:
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I agree.

When I ran my r-comp Toyo RA1s (245/40/18F 305/35/18R) the optimum pressure was 32F & 34R. The wear was even across the thread. That is where alignment comes into play.

I used to run Bridgestone RE-11's on the track for a while, if I remember correctly the optimum pressure for those were about 36F & 38R.

The wear on the tires mostly have to do with your cars weight, suspension and alignment setting. As I said on my earlier post, carrying too little pressure will cause the sidewalls to work incorrectly, meaning the tire will roll on it's side and the steering feel will be numb.

I remember going out on the track with 22F & 24R cold on RA1.
I had the stock PS2's. started the day with 33F and 35R, ended up with 44F and 46R. had to reduce pressure. It also depends on the weight on the car, ie a passanger.
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      06-21-2012, 02:29 PM   #19
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I used to start 33psi all around but that shot me up to 41-42 Hot, I now start with 30psi & am ending up with anywhere from 38-40 hot....did back to back sessions last week at NJMP & after about 10 laps of the second session had to come in b/c I was getting massive understeer that I was sure was b/c tires were too hot, checked quickly after pitting had 43psi....
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      06-21-2012, 02:56 PM   #20
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Shouldn't this topic be a sticky?
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      06-21-2012, 02:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I used to start 33psi all around but that shot me up to 41-42 Hot, I now start with 30psi & am ending up with anywhere from 38-40 hot....did back to back sessions last week at NJMP & after about 10 laps of the second session had to come in b/c I was getting massive understeer that I was sure was b/c tires were too hot, checked quickly after pitting had 43psi....
Similarly, I start with 28~29 psi, and wind up with 36~38psi hot.
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      06-21-2012, 03:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
i'm sure this is has been answered many times but i figured why not start a new thread, if i have to read another Mod thread i might throw up

anyway, can the board recommend what i need to do with my car to prepare it for a day at the track? i think closest to me would be limerock, though maybe i can sneak up to monticello to see the facility, it's a touch closer to the city.

so what? brake pads? oil? new tires the next day? it's a waste not to track this car.
Judging only by your question, I'm assuming this is your first time to the track. That said, you don't need to do anything to the car, just bring or rent a helmet, keep an open mind and leave your ego at home.

Just make sure that your car is in proper working order, you may need a tech inspection prior to the event, so read the track event organizer's info to verify.

Brake pads, fluid, lines, tires, etc. are in your future if you decide to continue on.
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