Got smoked by a E36 Non-M Saloon - Page 2

Let It Rein · 06-12-2012, 02:34 PM

Isnt it obvious? Guy was out practicing for Race Wars...

e92_m3 · 06-12-2012, 02:36 PM

OP,
That e36 may be turbocharged. I have seen a custom-made turbo setup on the S50 motor and damn it is fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlhj83

OP wasn't trying to pull the downshift paddle multiple times. DCT has a function where it can downshift to the lowest gear for max acceleration. To do this, we depress the kick down button and pull the downshift paddle once whilst in S mode. It's a fantastic feature.

I drive a 6-speed here, but the kickdown feature in the DCT intrigues me. Is it a button you press or do you guys move the shifter once (up? or down?), pull the downshift button once and there you go, the DCT selects the appropriate gear.

jc05e46m3 · 06-12-2012, 06:13 PM

I would just stay away from those "unsavory characters" lmfao.

Alpha///M · 06-12-2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlhj83

OP wasn't trying to pull the downshift paddle multiple times. DCT has a function where it can downshift to the lowest gear for max acceleration. To do this, we depress the kick down button and pull the downshift paddle once whilst in S mode. It's a fantastic feature.

What is "depress the kick down button?"

mlhj83 · 06-12-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e92_m3

OP,
That e36 may be turbocharged. I have seen a custom-made turbo setup on the S50 motor and damn it is fast.

I drive a 6-speed here, but the kickdown feature in the DCT intrigues me. Is it a button you press or do you guys move the shifter once (up? or down?), pull the downshift button once and there you go, the DCT selects the appropriate gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha///M

What is "depress the kick down button?"

Kick down is feature of most automatic transmissions. Its purpose is to select the lowest possible gear for maximum acceleration. It is activated by depressing the throttle pedal fully followed by further depression of the kick down button at the end of the throttle pedal travel. You can feel it being depressed.

Now, for M DCT, M division decided that in Sequential mode, M-car drivers would prefer as much manual control as possible, thus they disabled the kick down feature that would otherwise function as normal in D mode. But M decided to include a function within S mode that allowed instantaneous drop to the lowest gear possible for maximum acceleration, without the need to pull the downshift paddle multiple times. To achieve this (obviously you need to be in S mode already), floor the throttle and make sure the kick down button is depressed and then pull the downshift paddle once only. In practise, this is an extremely quick way of achieving maximum acceleration from a steady cruise.

This all in the supplementary M3 manual btw.

Mr.MichaelM3 · 06-18-2012, 04:35 PM

I can downshift into 3rd gear at 80 in my DCT M

mlhj83 · 06-19-2012, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.MichaelM3

I can downshift into 3rd gear at 80 in my DCT M

So can every other DCT. What we were talking about is the kick down and then pulling the downshift paddle once in S mode. If this is what you were talking about then I apologise.

Vybz · 06-19-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signes

If only you had a 6MT this never would happened...

Couldn't resist

HAHAHAHA I can't blame you at all Signes, I was thinking the exact same thing. I was like if only you drove 6MT, it would almost be second nature to you that at that speed you need to drop down to 3rd.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to bring back the 6MT vs DCT stupidity, but if this situation hasn't been brought up as one of the 6MT's pro's, it should be.

mlhj83 · 06-19-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vybz

HAHAHAHA I can't blame you at all Signes, I was thinking the exact same thing. I was like if only you drove 6MT, it would almost be second nature to you that at that speed you need to drop down to 3rd.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to bring back the 6MT vs DCT stupidity, but if this situation hasn't been brought up as one of the 6MT's pro's, it should be.

This is not a 6MT vs DCT discussion, but how is being able to select 3rd in a manual advantageous? You can do the same thing in DCT. OP's situation was that he executed the automatic multiple downshift function that DCT has but it didn't select the lowest gear for whatever reason. However, if he had done the conventional way of manually selecting 3rd by pulling the downshift paddle multiple times, he would have got 3rd.

It is also worth noting, that for a lot of people, they don't always know the optimum gear for a particular road speed for maximum acceleration. It's people who take driving seriously that know. For example, your average person may be able to tell you whether you need to change up or change down a gear based on the feel of whether the engine is over-revving or labouring, but once they get to a steady cruise and suddenly need maximum acceleration, majority cannot tell you the exact gear that would give maximum acceleration. This is because the driver has lost the incremental feel of accelerating and decelerating from one gear to another. Don't believe me? Ask your friends, neighbours, relatives, random people etc, whether they know with absolute certainty what the optimum gear is for acceleration at any given speed for their car. Most will be at least one gear off.

wisesoul · 06-19-2012, 05:24 PM

Pretty sure you raced a sleeper lol. If it was an old non M E36, 4th gear should've obliterated him. Looks can be deceiving. Obviously his gold teeth gave him the edge in performance

Vybz · 06-19-2012, 05:35 PM

I fully agree with you on the second half!

You misunderstood where I was going though on why driving 6MT is advantageous in regards to this situation.

It's not that selecting 3rd in a MT is somehow advantageous, it's the fact that IF he was familiar with or had been driving a 6MT, he would more than likely have known the optimal gear to be in for the situation. A MT by nature forces you to be more in touch with the engine, because you're making decisions that in a DCT a computer would make for you. I can't speak for all, but I have faith that if you asked a person who takes even the slightest interest in motor sport and drives a MT ( this goes for all cars of course ) where their power band begins and ends the majority would get it correct.

A DCT would have gotten to 3rd faster and could have started pulling earlier, we both know that. I'm just saying that the OP would most likely have had the knowledge to realize that a pull in 4th gear @ 65 mph probably isn't the best choice, if he had been driving a MT. This post is a prime example. How many people do u know that would just go with w/e gear the DCT gives you?

mlhj83 · 06-19-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vybz

I fully agree with you on the second half!

You misunderstood where I was going though on why driving 6MT is advantageous in regards to this situation.

It's not that selecting 3rd in a MT is somehow advantageous, it's the fact that IF he was familiar with or had been driving a 6MT, he would more than likely have known the optimal gear to be in for the situation. A MT by nature forces you to be more in touch with the engine, because you're making decisions that in a DCT a computer would make for you. I can't speak for all, but I have faith that if you asked a person who takes even the slightest interest in motor sport and drives a MT ( this goes for all cars of course ) where their power band begins and ends the majority would get it correct.

A DCT would have gotten to 3rd faster and could have started pulling earlier, we both know that. I'm just saying that the OP would most likely have had the knowledge to realize that a pull in 4th gear @ 65 mph probably isn't the best choice, if he had been driving a MT. This post is a prime example. How many people do u know that would just go with w/e gear the DCT gives you?

Yes, I understood your point that you think that a driver is more likely to subconsciously know the optimum gear for acceleration for a given speed if he/she was driving a manual, which was why I stated the second point in my previous post. I still feel that for the average driver, when faced with the need to select a gear for optimal acceleration that is more than 2 gears lower than the gear being used for a steady cruise, it becomes a little harder regardless to transmission. What I would agree is that the average driver with a manual transmission is more likely to know whether he/she is one gear too high or too low for smooth steady driving, but once the need for maximum acceleration arises, they will not know the optimum gear regardless of transmission. Anyway, this isn't a big issue, purely speculative.

kotik · 06-21-2012, 08:37 AM

Sooo in short 6SPD FTW??

mlhj83 · 06-21-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotik

Sooo in short 6SPD FTW??

No, 7MT FTW.

car_fan · 06-21-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlhj83

This is not a 6MT vs DCT discussion, but how is being able to select 3rd in a manual advantageous? You can do the same thing in DCT. OP's situation was that he executed the automatic multiple downshift function that DCT has but it didn't select the lowest gear for whatever reason. However, if he had done the conventional way of manually selecting 3rd by pulling the downshift paddle multiple times, he would have got 3rd.

It is also worth noting, that for a lot of people, they don't always know the optimum gear for a particular road speed for maximum acceleration. It's people who take driving seriously that know. For example, your average person may be able to tell you whether you need to change up or change down a gear based on the feel of whether the engine is over-revving or labouring, but once they get to a steady cruise and suddenly need maximum acceleration, majority cannot tell you the exact gear that would give maximum acceleration. This is because the driver has lost the incremental feel of accelerating and decelerating from one gear to another. Don't believe me? Ask your friends, neighbours, relatives, random people etc, whether they know with absolute certainty what the optimum gear is for acceleration at any given speed for their car. Most will be at least one gear off.

bruinedbimmer · 06-21-2012, 02:49 PM

Only explanation is the guy had to have a motor swap, but more then likely a turbo. Even a supercharged e36 m3, unless making around 450+whp would not be able to beat you the way this guy did with 2 other people in the car.

Don't worry, it looked the way it did, so he could do exactly what he did to you. Sleeper cars are built for 1 purpose, to embarass those that can afford real cars.

Endless619 · 06-23-2012, 12:09 AM

Maybe he had NOS! LMAO

Anybody can buy a $5000 E36 car and make it fast. I know I can. Fact. Been there, done that and moved up and on.

pbonsalb · 06-23-2012, 06:01 AM

When you get spanked by a 15 year old E36, you should appreciate the skill and labor and knowledge the owner put into his car. In my view, he is far more of a car enthusiast than most people in this forum.

Anyone with $70k can go out and buy a car that is already pretty fast. That takes no skill or labor, and very little knowledge.

06-18-2012, 04:35 PM	#28
Mr.MichaelM3 First Lieutenant Drives: 2010 E90 M3 Int Blue DCT Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Dirty Jersey Posts: 308 iTrader: (0)	I can downshift into 3rd gear at 80 in my DCT M __________________ 2010 E90 M3 MODS: ESS VT-1 550-BMW CF splitters, Rear spoiler, afe intake, ESS tune, Fully catless, Borla Axle back, fabspeed xpipe, RD springs, BMW V2 performance steering wheel, TO many to list

06-19-2012, 05:24 PM	#32
wisesoul Savoir Faire Drives: 2013 BMW M5 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 1,157 iTrader: (0)	Pretty sure you raced a sleeper lol. If it was an old non M E36, 4th gear should've obliterated him. Looks can be deceiving. Obviously his gold teeth gave him the edge in performance __________________ Current: AW/SO F10 M5 H&R Springs, 12mm/10mm Spacers Sold:Imola Yellow RS4-KW V3, MTM 10mm spacers, Hotchkis rear sway bar, APR Stage 1, Milltek Catless, RNS-E, Euro RS4 Flat bottom Steering Wheel Sold:E46 323i

06-19-2012, 05:35 PM	#33
Vybz First Lieutenant Drives: Adidas and Puma Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NSB Kitsap-Bangor, WA Posts: 342 iTrader: (3) Garage List 2012 BMW M3 [3.83]	I fully agree with you on the second half! You misunderstood where I was going though on why driving 6MT is advantageous in regards to this situation. It's not that selecting 3rd in a MT is somehow advantageous, it's the fact that IF he was familiar with or had been driving a 6MT, he would more than likely have known the optimal gear to be in for the situation. A MT by nature forces you to be more in touch with the engine, because you're making decisions that in a DCT a computer would make for you. I can't speak for all, but I have faith that if you asked a person who takes even the slightest interest in motor sport and drives a MT ( this goes for all cars of course ) where their power band begins and ends the majority would get it correct. A DCT would have gotten to 3rd faster and could have started pulling earlier, we both know that. I'm just saying that the OP would most likely have had the knowledge to realize that a pull in 4th gear @ 65 mph probably isn't the best choice, if he had been driving a MT. This post is a prime example. How many people do u know that would just go with w/e gear the DCT gives you? __________________ <><><><><><><><><><><> BMWCCA Member # 459350 Audi B6 A4 - S O L D

06-23-2012, 12:09 AM	#39
Endless619 DHS Drives: bmw x5, m3, Acura TL Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: California/Maine/Oregon Posts: 2,787 iTrader: (11) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00] 2009 BMW X5 [0.00]	Maybe he had NOS! LMAO Anybody can buy a $5000 E36 car and make it fast. I know I can. Fact. Been there, done that and moved up and on. __________________ Alpine White X5 Jerez Black M3 White Diamond Pearl TL Sapphire Black Z4MC (Sold) Berlina Black NSX (Sold) Last edited by Endless619; 06-23-2012 at 05:35 PM.

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06-12-2012, 02:34 PM	#23
Let It Rein Horse Wrangler Drives: Z06 w/Mods Join Date: May 2012 Location: The South Posts: 345 iTrader: (0)	Isnt it obvious? Guy was out practicing for Race Wars...

06-12-2012, 06:13 PM	#25
jc05e46m3 Private Drives: 2012 M3 AW/FR ZCP Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: VA Beach Posts: 96 iTrader: (0)	I would just stay away from those "unsavory characters" lmfao.

06-21-2012, 08:37 AM	#35
kotik Lieutenant Drives: e90 M3 ESS 575 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 478 iTrader: (0)	Sooo in short 6SPD FTW??

06-21-2012, 02:49 PM	#38
bruinedbimmer New Member Drives: E34 525iT Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: LA, CA Posts: 6 iTrader: (0)	Only explanation is the guy had to have a motor swap, but more then likely a turbo. Even a supercharged e36 m3, unless making around 450+whp would not be able to beat you the way this guy did with 2 other people in the car. Don't worry, it looked the way it did, so he could do exactly what he did to you. Sleeper cars are built for 1 purpose, to embarass those that can afford real cars.

06-23-2012, 06:01 AM	#40
pbonsalb Major Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 1,204 iTrader: (3)	When you get spanked by a 15 year old E36, you should appreciate the skill and labor and knowledge the owner put into his car. In my view, he is far more of a car enthusiast than most people in this forum. Anyone with $70k can go out and buy a car that is already pretty fast. That takes no skill or labor, and very little knowledge.