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      06-11-2012, 07:31 AM   #67
TLCanada
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I have both! A e92 m3 and 335i jb3 both 6mt

Love the power and of 335i, I upgraded the steering wheel to the m3 version, as well as the weighted m, shifter. The 335i is great as a daily driver. Because the torque comes on very early, every bit of road is usable to enjoy so you don't need long stretches of asphalt to "feel the power"

The m3? Sounds amazing, looks good ( if lowered, still way to high) m button is fun. A completely different drive. High rev engine, power comes on late, but still usable. Needs a track or twistys to really show its worth. And lastly the "M" has pedigree if you care what people think ( which I don't) but I do like that it has some "history" to it.

With all that said, I might still sell my 335i for a 2nd m3 e93!, the convertible version of the m3 allows you to really hear the sound of the v8, which is addictive. But so is the low end torque or the 335i. You really can't go wrong with any of them!!
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      06-11-2012, 08:43 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
Are you HotIce's smurf or something? You two do nothing but rag on the M3. The S65 simply put, is an engineering marvel.
And here we have the definitive fanboy attitude.

I say "My ONLY point is that I think the M guys dropped the ball in this one area. Otherwise, the car is damned close to being a paragon."

And you say that I (along with some other guy) "...do nothing but rag on the M3".

Perhaps you should expand your knowledge of the language and look up the word "paragon".

Or, failing that, perhaps you can explain to me how 14/20 in a 3600 pound, four-liter car is actually a terrific achievement.

I look forward to your response.
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      06-11-2012, 10:02 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
I agree you can get 22+ highway, but "balls out" is more like 6mpg... not 18...

FWIW I've averaged about 18 total. Best was 24mpg over a low speed highway (55-60mph in 7th gear), worst is ~6mpg on track.

But having owned a 335i, the driving experience is not even similar. The M3 just feels like a much more expensive and more solid car. The only thing the 335i is better on is low end torque and mpg's.
-----

Owned both, disagree. As others attest, 335 slightly modded = rocket.
Both nice cars though.
Hoping the new M3 solves the current cars ills.
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      06-11-2012, 10:04 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post


Coming up on 5 yrs of ownership and I have yet to see 22 mpg on a tank.
25 once on 101 to NorCal, 76 miles per hour.
Can get 22 on long boring drives filled with CHP.
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      06-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
And here we have the definitive fanboy attitude.

I say "My ONLY point is that I think the M guys dropped the ball in this one area. Otherwise, the car is damned close to being a paragon."

And you say that I (along with some other guy) "...do nothing but rag on the M3".

Perhaps you should expand your knowledge of the language and look up the word "paragon".

Or, failing that, perhaps you can explain to me how 14/20 in a 3600 pound, four-liter car is actually a terrific achievement.

I look forward to your response.
I agree with the gist of your point...too many defensive folks on here.

One disagreement I have, however, is that the S65 is a wonderful engine. Could it have been better? absolutely. But there is nothing wrong about this high revving 4 liter engine, and although we can get into debates on technical pros/cons, there is a reason why this engine won "engine of the year" in its category 4 years straight.
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      06-11-2012, 10:19 AM   #72
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this thread is refreshing and delivers.
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      06-11-2012, 10:33 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman View Post
-----

Owned both, disagree. As others attest, 335 slightly modded = rocket.
Both nice cars though.
Hoping the new M3 solves the current cars ills.
I don't dispute the speed, I dispute the feel. The 335i modded is faster than my car, but so what? It feels less solid/refined/expensive and the few tunes I drove on my 335i made it feel kinda choppy and even less refined than stock... not to mention the HPFP that they can't seem to get right. I had mine in for service close to 10 times in a year for fuel pump issues, including multiple limp modes (and this was both before and after tuning and track use, so that isn't why). They replaced my fuel pump with 2 or 3 different "upgraded" fuel pumps, which each failed.
A friend of mine also had a 2008 335i and had the same fuel pump issues and was bone stock. It isn't just some internet myth.

The N55 cars seem much more reliable, but it still isn't going to drive like a M. Just sit in both, the leather in the M3 is softer and the car feels like a $60k car. I can't say the same about the 335i, even though I definitely respect the modded 335i's and the speeds they are capable of.

I'm not hating on the 335i, they're cool cars and can be made very fast for cheap. But it is not going to drive like a M3. The E92 M3 is the most "solid" feeling car I've driven other than italians. My 2c.
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      06-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by pharmdphd98 View Post
Being able to enjoy my 135/335 at legal speeds helps to keep me from getting arrested for hauling ass in my M3. Well worth it!
You can also enjoy the M3 at legal speed, you just need to downshift!
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      06-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #75
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      06-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #76
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And your one of those guys that believes that fuel economy saves the environment by reducing carbon footprint?
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      06-11-2012, 07:26 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
I don't dispute the speed, I dispute the feel. The 335i modded is faster than my car, but so what? It feels less solid/refined/expensive and the few tunes I drove on my 335i made it feel kinda choppy and even less refined than stock... not to mention the HPFP that they can't seem to get right. I had mine in for service close to 10 times in a year for fuel pump issues, including multiple limp modes (and this was both before and after tuning and track use, so that isn't why). They replaced my fuel pump with 2 or 3 different "upgraded" fuel pumps, which each failed.
A friend of mine also had a 2008 335i and had the same fuel pump issues and was bone stock. It isn't just some internet myth.

The N55 cars seem much more reliable, but it still isn't going to drive like a M. Just sit in both, the leather in the M3 is softer and the car feels like a $60k car. I can't say the same about the 335i, even though I definitely respect the modded 335i's and the speeds they are capable of.

I'm not hating on the 335i, they're cool cars and can be made very fast for cheap. But it is not going to drive like a M3. The E92 M3 is the most "solid" feeling car I've driven other than italians. My 2c.
-----

I had both and they are wonderful cars, both impressive for their costs for different reasons. 335 more chuckable, M3 more planted. Both quick but 335 more impressive at the price point.
As for the leather...who gives. You dont buy an M3 for that
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      06-11-2012, 07:56 PM   #78
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Both quick but 335 more impressive at the price point.
I would just add the M3 does things as well and can hang with cars that cost more also.
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      06-11-2012, 11:21 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I agree with the gist of your point...too many defensive folks on here.

One disagreement I have, however, is that the S65 is a wonderful engine. Could it have been better? absolutely. But there is nothing wrong about this high revving 4 liter engine, and although we can get into debates on technical pros/cons, there is a reason why this engine won "engine of the year" in its category 4 years straight.
I don't know who you're disagreeing with, but it ain't me. I've written quite a bit of very flowery praise about it. More than most in this forum, for sure.

One thing that continues to amaze me is that the damned thing loses just 11% off the torque peak over a 4400 rpm span. Unbelieveable in a current road-ready, smog legal engine.

Bruce
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      06-12-2012, 10:50 AM   #80
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Let me just give you a real world example.

Recently I had to install some insulation batting in a rental property. I fully planned renting the Lowe's truck to take everything over to the house but the truck was out for the afternoon. So instead of waiting or not doing it I folded down the rear seats and loaded one of the two bundles into the back of the car (I had it covered don't worry...).

While I was contemplating what to do with the other huge bundle a guy in a big Denali who had pulled out of the parking lot pulled BACK in and asked me "hey you're not planning on putting that in there are you?! That car is too nice to do that! Love M3's!" He then offered to take the extra bundle in his truck to my house 2 blocks away! No questions asked. Don't think I would have gotten the same reaction with a 335i...

Just for fun after he said "that thing sounds mean!" I got on it with him behind me so he could hear it sing above 5 k rpm and hit maybe 60 quicker than I should have. Looked back to see where he was, but my view was obstructed by a huge thing of INSULATION BATTING. I just started cracking up. Here I was able to hit 0-60'ish in a more than sufficient time, carrying home improvement items from the local home improvement store with a guy who liked my car enough to offer to help for NO OTHER REASON than he appreciated it as well. Said a ton.

Moral of the story? Utility, performance, recognition, exclusivity (relatively as sedans are more rare than coupes and verts) and most importantly FUN.
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      06-12-2012, 08:50 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin View Post
Moral of the story? Utility, performance, recognition, exclusivity (relatively as sedans are more rare than coupes and verts) and most importantly FUN.
Reminds me of the following quote from:

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...s/2009-bmw-m3/

lowmilelude says:

05:00 AM, 03/ 2/10

There's a cardiac surgeon at work who drives a brand new M3. Yesterday in the parking lot, I swear to God I caught him smiling while he was sitting in the driver's seat, waiting for it to warm up. That guy never effing smiles. NEVER.
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      06-13-2012, 10:34 PM   #82
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I am a new e92 owner so I am not as brainwashed by the BMW brand as some of you. My personal opinion has been that 3 series are nothing special. I have never been impressed when seeing one and have always looked at them as entry level BMWs, much like the Mercedes C class. Some of the 3 series I see on the road, with cheaper wheels, etc. look terrible. They are over priced and for less money you can buy a better equipped car with more power, like a G37x.

The M3 however is different. Much different. It has class, exterior styling, respectable speed, and is one of the best special edition vehicles ever made IMO. Yes, it shares the same chassis as the other 3 series cars, including the 335i you all keep comparing the M3 to for some reason. But that's where the similarity ends. I could name a ton of other cars that blow the 335 away. I'd rather drive the new mustang than a 335i 6mt with mods. I would never buy a $40k to $60k car, under warranty, and modifiy it. Seems kind of ghetto to me. If you own one that is out of warranty or are so rich it doesn't matter then more power to ya. But saying a modded 335i is fast... Who cares? You can buy a Honda Civic and do the same thing, but you are still driving a Honda Civic. I feel what makes the M3 special is that it was engineered to be fast. ///M designed it that way. Not some kid who ordered parts on eBay.

I hope I don't come off wrong with my comments. It's hard sometimes to get your point across in writing. I am not trying to rip on BMW or say that 335i's are POS. I test drove one and it is a decent car, well built, etc. But it is not special like the M3.

Just to be clear, I love my e92. It is my first BMW and I have much more respect for the brand since purchasing it. Seriously, it is an amazing car. I owned a Cayman S prior to this but live in Chicago so I could only drive it when the weather was nice. I had a C300 as my commuter/winter car. The Cayman is an awesome car, I could go on and on about how well engineered that car is. I have always been a Porsche enthusiast and have great respect for the brand. Which is kind of why I am so drawn to the ///M cars. I have a high respect for the performance driven/race inspired cars coming out of Germany and the history that comes with them.
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      06-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #83
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This makes sense. I am the OP, and like my previous M3 and the Porsche Cayman S I have now, the current M3 IS special. It has "soul" that is felt through every fabric of the car. After test driving a 335i, I can feel that M3 soul before getting out of second gear, just driving down the street.

I may not drive especially hard (but hard enough to evaporate Continentals off the Cayman in 17,000 miles), but it doesn't matter. The M3 is special. While not in the same class, I got the same feeling when test driving a Mitsubishi EVO. VERY clearly, way more soul and personality than a regular Lancer!...at any speed.

Phil
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      06-14-2012, 10:53 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I...there is a reason why this engine won "engine of the year" in its category 4 years straight.
5 years straight now. 2008-2012 inclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
This makes sense. I am the OP, and like my previous M3 and the Porsche Cayman S I have now, the current M3 IS special. It has "soul" that is felt through every fabric of the car. After test driving a 335i, I can feel that M3 soul before getting out of second gear, just driving down the street.

Phil
OP, the M3's the car for you. Just going putt-putt down the street with the M3 makes me smile. It's a very special car and you can "feel" how much effort was put into it the moment you fire it up.

It's for you because you came from an M3 and then a Cayman S. Although I think my 335i is an unbelievable good daily driver, it would be a "downgrade" from such former cars. It's also clear from what you've written that you're someone who really appreciates the feel. I am the same way.

Reason I chose the M3 over the P-twins was because of it's overall comfort and practicality.
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      06-14-2012, 10:58 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
And here we have the definitive fanboy attitude.

I say "My ONLY point is that I think the M guys dropped the ball in this one area. Otherwise, the car is damned close to being a paragon."

And you say that I (along with some other guy) "...do nothing but rag on the M3".

Perhaps you should expand your knowledge of the language and look up the word "paragon".

Or, failing that, perhaps you can explain to me how 14/20 in a 3600 pound, four-liter car is actually a terrific achievement.I look forward to your response.
5 years straight engine of the year, yeah, you're right, the M engineers could've probably done better!

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=s65+award
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      06-15-2012, 12:25 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMMM3 View Post
Reminds me of the following quote from:

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...s/2009-bmw-m3/

lowmilelude says:

05:00 AM, 03/ 2/10

There's a cardiac surgeon at work who drives a brand new M3. Yesterday in the parking lot, I swear to God I caught him smiling while he was sitting in the driver's seat, waiting for it to warm up. That guy never effing smiles. NEVER.
Ive owned both and among other things this is exactly why I prefer the M. Well put!
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      06-15-2012, 12:37 AM   #87
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5 years straight engine of the year, yeah, you're right, the M engineers could've probably done better!

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=s65+award
Another guy who ought to look up the meaning of the word "paragon".

OK, your turn, tough guy. Explain to me how 14 and 20 in a four liter, 3600 pound car are actually good numbers.

Hell, even a Camaro, with more power and more weight does better.
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      06-15-2012, 12:51 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Another guy who ought to look up the meaning of the word "paragon".

OK, your turn, tough guy. Explain to me how 14 and 20 in a four liter, 3600 pound car are actually good numbers.

Hell, even a Camaro, with more power and more weight does better.
Here's the definition.

paragon[ par-uh-gon, -guh n ]
noun
1.*a model or pattern of excellence or of a particular excellence: a paragon of virtue.

Its won 5 years in a row judged by people way more important than you. Obviously no one cares about your 14 and 20 3,600 lb argument. Let it go
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