BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #485
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 3,791
iTrader: (3)

Better : )

So are you getting one of these or what? You have all the vids queued up. ; )
Singletrack is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:51 AM   #486
bulldog x6
Major General
 
Drives: x6 panzer
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: probably work

Posts: 5,017
iTrader: (28)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
X1 is not my car, leave the assumption at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
If an X1 is welcome I would like to come to. let me know.
http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...0#post12040120

bulldog x6 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 05:07 PM   #487
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Better : )

So are you getting one of these or what? You have all the vids queued up. ; )

I'm the kind of guy who usually puts his money where his mouth is... I wouldn't take the trouble if I wasn't genuinely convinced that the Toyobaru really is a cornerstone.

I miss some aspects of the Cayman driving experience... namely its precision, driving position and the manual gearbox - the best gearbox I've ever experienced. Period.

But at the same time I love the challenge of driving the 1M - you are always fighting with yourself as you are always aware that you are not making the most of the 1M capabilities, so you are compelled to push it and yourself to its limits because this car was made to go sideways and you soon will find yourself wishing for better driving skills. Then there's the gas mileage issue which is important when your driving style systematically puts you on the 15 mpg mark and you are paying 2.13 US$ per 0.26 gal.


So, the way I see this Toyobaru is like a fusion between the Porsche and the 1M for the best of their traits... and it just isn't a perfect fusion because of the torque absence... then I have to ask for it!
GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #488
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 3,791
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
I'm the kind of guy who usually puts his money where his mouth is... I wouldn't take the trouble if I wasn't genuinely convinced that the Toyobaru really is a cornerstone.
I agree with you. This is one of the most important cars in a very long time.


Quote:
I miss some aspects of the Cayman driving experience... namely its precision, driving position and the manual gearbox - the best gearbox I've ever experienced. Period.

But at the same time I love the challenge of driving the 1M - you are always fighting with yourself as you are always aware that you are not making the most of the 1M capabilities, so you are compelled to push it and yourself to its limits because this car was made to go sideways and you soon will find yourself wishing for better driving skills. Then there's the gas mileage issue which is important when your driving style systematically puts you on the 15 mpg mark and you are paying 2.13 US$ per 0.26 gal.


So, the way I see this Toyobaru is like a fusion between the Porsche and the 1M for the best of their traits... and it just isn't a perfect fusion because of the torque absence... then I have to ask for it!
I didn't realize you had a 1M. I'm sure you will love the Toyobaru. If I had a massive garage, I might buy one myself as a toy.

As for the torque; upgrades to Subarus are so cheap. Sounds like the chassis is great. You can almost drop a whole new motor in one for the price of a full BMW exhaust. : )

Last edited by Singletrack; 06-06-2012 at 07:15 PM.
Singletrack is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 05:41 PM   #489
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
As for the torque; upgrades to Subarus are so cheap. Sounds like the chassis is great. You can almost drop a whole new motor in one for the price of a full BMW exhaust. : )
Yes. But on the other hand I also think this car should make a statement to the snobbish of the pseudo-sports car world with its comparatively low price tag... so it should be perfect out of the factory.
GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 06:27 PM   #490
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 3,791
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
Yes. But on the other hand I also think this car should make a statement to the snobbish of the pseudo-sports car world with its comparatively low price tag... so it should be perfect out of the factory.
Properly driven, I'm sure it will whip a lot of the people you are referring to on the track. ; )
Singletrack is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 06:36 PM   #491
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 07:29 PM   #492
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 3,791
iTrader: (3)

Looks dope in matte. Don't like the fender green (would do gloss black myself), but the mirrors are cool.

I'd go white with bronze wheels personally. Straight JDM y0! ; )
Singletrack is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-07-2012, 07:31 AM   #493
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-07-2012, 09:31 AM   #494
kyleb350
Brigadier General
 
kyleb350's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: LoMbard, IL

Posts: 4,130
iTrader: (6)

^^As expected. Surprised to see that the S2000 is heavier.
kyleb350 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #495
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
^^As expected. Surprised to see that the S2000 is heavier.
The Toyobaru is in fact lightweight... see how it flys :

GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #496
rfx45
Lieutenant
 
rfx45's Avatar
 
Drives: E89
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CA

Posts: 567
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW Z4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvosM3 View Post
Oh man that's a slow 0-60 time 7.6 seconds?!?! Fat and slow SUV's get better times than that. I understand it's not build for speed but come on, at least make it sub 6...
Outside of Insideline and Toyobaru's own numbers, it seems no other magazine or websites are getting that same 0-60 time. Others are below 7 seconds and some are even mid-6s.
__________________
2012 Z4
http://e89.zpost.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=32142&dateline=132899  8397
rfx45 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2012, 07:14 PM   #497
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfx45 View Post
Outside of Insideline and Toyobaru's own numbers, it seems no other magazine or websites are getting that same 0-60 time. Others are below 7 seconds and some are even mid-6s.
Don't confuse 0-60 time with 0-62. In the latter case the official time is 7.6 seconds for the manual transmission version. BTW, did you know that the official max. speed for the same version is 226 km/h whereas in the automatic version the max. speed drops SIGNIFICANTLY to 210 km/h?!

Mind you that the automatic version was the one tested by EVO magazine... isn't this outrageous?!

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-10-2012 at 07:40 PM.
GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2012, 09:08 PM   #498
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)







Three different engines with the same exact displacement (1998cc) and equal number of cylinders (four). Why is the Toyobaru's engine the only one with direct fuel injection and yet the worst of the three?

You could say that it's the most fuel-efficient of the three engines averaging 7.8L/100 km and while that is true the problem is it's not much different from the 8.2L/100 km achieved by the multi-point fuel injection (MPI) Renaultsport's engine if you consider that the Clio RS weights the same 1240 kg BUT has shorter gear ratios... and what about the performance?!

Let's compare the three cars equipped with each of those engines:
  1. Honda Type R FD2
  2. Subaru BRZ
  3. Renault Clio RS


Multiplying the differential ratio with the transmission ratio we have:

............. Type R (FD2)........... Clio RS............ BRZ
1st......... 16.55:1.................... 14.91:1........... 14.88:1
2nd......... 10.78:1.................... 9.34:1............. 8.98:1
3rd.......... 7.69:1..................... 6.74:1............. 6.31:1
4th.......... 5.82:1..................... 5.34:1............. 4.96:1
5th.......... 4.66:1..................... 4.31:1............. 4.10:1
6th.......... 3.74:1..................... 3.60:1............. 3.20:1
Redline..... 8600 rpm................. 7400 rpm.......... 7400 rpm
Torque.... 159 lb-ft................. 159 lb-ft.......... 151 lb-ft
Power....... 222 hp..................... 203 hp............ 200 hp
CR............ 11.7:1..................... 11.5:1............. 12.5:1
BoreXStroke 86x86 mm................ 82.7x93 mm..... 86x86 mm
Displac...... 1998 cc................... 1998 cc .......... 1998 cc
Weight...... 1270 kg.................... 1240 kg ......... 1239 kg
0-62 mph... 6.3 s........................ 6.9 s.............. 7.6 s
Max Speed. 241 km/h.................. 225 km/h......... 226 km/h



So I ask why in hell does the Toyobaru's engine have such a high compression ratio (12.5:1) if it can't make the most of it?! Poor engineering then?!

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-10-2012 at 09:16 PM.
GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2012, 10:29 PM   #499
dorifto88
Captain
 
Drives: 88 Nissan Pathfinder
Join Date: May 2010
Location: cowtown

Posts: 961
iTrader: (1)

dorifto88 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 04:40 AM   #500
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorifto88 View Post


It's nothing fancy... you can do it even in a 1.8 with a blown diff bone stock miata :

GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 04:46 AM   #501
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post






Three different engines with the same exact displacement (1998cc) and equal number of cylinders (four). Why is the Toyobaru's engine the only one with direct fuel injection and yet the worst of the three?

You could say that it's the most fuel-efficient of the three engines averaging 7.8L/100 km and while that is true the problem is it's not much different from the 8.2L/100 km achieved by the multi-point fuel injection (MPI) Renaultsport's engine if you consider that the Clio RS weights the same 1240 kg BUT has shorter gear ratios... and what about the performance?!

Let's compare the three cars equipped with each of those engines:
  1. Honda Type R FD2
  2. Subaru BRZ
  3. Renault Clio RS


Multiplying the differential ratio with the transmission ratio we have:

............. Type R (FD2)........... Clio RS............ BRZ
1st......... 16.55:1.................... 14.91:1........... 14.88:1
2nd......... 10.78:1.................... 9.34:1............. 8.98:1
3rd.......... 7.69:1..................... 6.74:1............. 6.31:1
4th.......... 5.82:1..................... 5.34:1............. 4.96:1
5th.......... 4.66:1..................... 4.31:1............. 4.10:1
6th.......... 3.74:1..................... 3.60:1............. 3.20:1
Redline..... 8600 rpm................. 7400 rpm.......... 7400 rpm
Torque.... 159 lb-ft................. 159 lb-ft.......... 151 lb-ft
Power....... 222 hp..................... 203 hp............ 200 hp
CR............ 11.7:1..................... 11.5:1............. 12.5:1
BoreXStroke 86x86 mm................ 82.7x93 mm..... 86x86 mm
Displac...... 1998 cc................... 1998 cc .......... 1998 cc
Weight...... 1270 kg.................... 1240 kg ......... 1239 kg
0-62 mph... 6.3 s........................ 6.9 s.............. 7.6 s
Max Speed. 241 km/h.................. 225 km/h......... 226 km/h



So I ask why in hell does the Toyobaru's engine have such a high compression ratio (12.5:1) if it can't make the most of it?! Poor engineering then?!



I want this to be answered!
GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 08:05 AM   #502
Draman
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e93 335i, S5
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CT

Posts: 214
iTrader: (0)

A friend picked one of these up this weekend. It is not a good road car, it is exceptionally slow, at least in my opinion. It might be fun as a track day car because it really does handle beautifully, I can't see any reason someone would buy a Miata as a track day car instead of this. Even so, against drivers of reasonably equal skill I don't think you would be able to keep up with some of the cars people are trying to compare this with...it really is sloooooooooooooooooooooow. Hopefully the STI/TRD (or whatever designation Toyota uses, assuming it comes out with a higher performance model) makes it a better DD.
__________________
E93 Sapphire Black / Coral Red
Sport|Premium|Cold Weather|Nav|PDC|Active Steering|Sirius|Comfort Access

Audi S5 Ibis White / Tuscan Brown
Carbon Atlas|Audi Drive Select|Nav|B&O|Tech Package
Draman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #503
Red Bread
Brigadier General
 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draman View Post
I can't see any reason someone would buy a Miata as a track day car instead of this.
Because the Miata is the most popular track car there is, with NASA and SCCA class support and they're proven, cheap and plentiful. The BRZ looks promising, has a fixed roof and some smart engineering, but until they've been around for a decade or more, the Miata will continue to be the smarter track choice.

I haven't seen what official race support Subie/Toyota are offering for the 86, but Mazdaspeed provides so much support for the Miata (and other Mazdas) that it's a huge bonus for any aspiring track junkie.
Red Bread is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #504
dorifto88
Captain
 
Drives: 88 Nissan Pathfinder
Join Date: May 2010
Location: cowtown

Posts: 961
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
It's nothing fancy... you can do it even in a 1.8 with a blown diff bone stock miata :



lol yeah i know but i would never do that to a new car lol (even if i had the skill).

but then again im not rich lol
dorifto88 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 11:10 AM   #505
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Because the Miata is the most popular track car there is, with NASA and SCCA class support and they're proven, cheap and plentiful. The BRZ looks promising, has a fixed roof and some smart engineering, but until they've been around for a decade or more, the Miata will continue to be the smarter track choice.
And here lays the problem... the Toyobaru has so, SO much potential and yet we ending up comparing it to the Miata performance wise. Why?!

Because the engine should have a fat torque curve without dips and peaks over the entire rpm range like the Renaultsport's engine (Renaultsport surely knows how to do a proper engine):

GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2012, 11:42 AM   #506
e85sbm
Snow Wizard
 
e85sbm's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW & MINI
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary, Canada

Posts: 381
iTrader: (2)

I am really surprised that this car has 12.5:1 compression and can only offer 200hp. What are they doing? DI engines are great, but it seems Subaru don't have the ability to pull the power out in a NA engine.
e85sbm is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST