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      06-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #485
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Better : )

So are you getting one of these or what? You have all the vids queued up. ; )
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      06-06-2012, 11:51 AM   #486
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X1 is not my car, leave the assumption at home.
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      06-06-2012, 05:07 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Better : )

So are you getting one of these or what? You have all the vids queued up. ; )

I'm the kind of guy who usually puts his money where his mouth is... I wouldn't take the trouble if I wasn't genuinely convinced that the Toyobaru really is a cornerstone.

I miss some aspects of the Cayman driving experience... namely its precision, driving position and the manual gearbox - the best gearbox I've ever experienced. Period.

But at the same time I love the challenge of driving the 1M - you are always fighting with yourself as you are always aware that you are not making the most of the 1M capabilities, so you are compelled to push it and yourself to its limits because this car was made to go sideways and you soon will find yourself wishing for better driving skills. Then there's the gas mileage issue which is important when your driving style systematically puts you on the 15 mpg mark and you are paying 2.13 US$ per 0.26 gal.


So, the way I see this Toyobaru is like a fusion between the Porsche and the 1M for the best of their traits... and it just isn't a perfect fusion because of the torque absence... then I have to ask for it!
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      06-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
I'm the kind of guy who usually puts his money where his mouth is... I wouldn't take the trouble if I wasn't genuinely convinced that the Toyobaru really is a cornerstone.
I agree with you. This is one of the most important cars in a very long time.


Quote:
I miss some aspects of the Cayman driving experience... namely its precision, driving position and the manual gearbox - the best gearbox I've ever experienced. Period.

But at the same time I love the challenge of driving the 1M - you are always fighting with yourself as you are always aware that you are not making the most of the 1M capabilities, so you are compelled to push it and yourself to its limits because this car was made to go sideways and you soon will find yourself wishing for better driving skills. Then there's the gas mileage issue which is important when your driving style systematically puts you on the 15 mpg mark and you are paying 2.13 US$ per 0.26 gal.


So, the way I see this Toyobaru is like a fusion between the Porsche and the 1M for the best of their traits... and it just isn't a perfect fusion because of the torque absence... then I have to ask for it!
I didn't realize you had a 1M. I'm sure you will love the Toyobaru. If I had a massive garage, I might buy one myself as a toy.

As for the torque; upgrades to Subarus are so cheap. Sounds like the chassis is great. You can almost drop a whole new motor in one for the price of a full BMW exhaust. : )

Last edited by Singletrack; 06-06-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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      06-06-2012, 05:41 PM   #489
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As for the torque; upgrades to Subarus are so cheap. Sounds like the chassis is great. You can almost drop a whole new motor in one for the price of a full BMW exhaust. : )
Yes. But on the other hand I also think this car should make a statement to the snobbish of the pseudo-sports car world with its comparatively low price tag... so it should be perfect out of the factory.
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      06-06-2012, 06:27 PM   #490
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Yes. But on the other hand I also think this car should make a statement to the snobbish of the pseudo-sports car world with its comparatively low price tag... so it should be perfect out of the factory.
Properly driven, I'm sure it will whip a lot of the people you are referring to on the track. ; )
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      06-06-2012, 06:36 PM   #491
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      06-06-2012, 07:29 PM   #492
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Looks dope in matte. Don't like the fender green (would do gloss black myself), but the mirrors are cool.

I'd go white with bronze wheels personally. Straight JDM y0! ; )
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      06-07-2012, 07:31 AM   #493
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      06-07-2012, 09:31 AM   #494
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^^As expected. Surprised to see that the S2000 is heavier.
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      06-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #495
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^^As expected. Surprised to see that the S2000 is heavier.
The Toyobaru is in fact lightweight... see how it flys :

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      06-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #496
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Oh man that's a slow 0-60 time 7.6 seconds?!?! Fat and slow SUV's get better times than that. I understand it's not build for speed but come on, at least make it sub 6...
Outside of Insideline and Toyobaru's own numbers, it seems no other magazine or websites are getting that same 0-60 time. Others are below 7 seconds and some are even mid-6s.
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      06-10-2012, 07:14 PM   #497
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Outside of Insideline and Toyobaru's own numbers, it seems no other magazine or websites are getting that same 0-60 time. Others are below 7 seconds and some are even mid-6s.
Don't confuse 0-60 time with 0-62. In the latter case the official time is 7.6 seconds for the manual transmission version. BTW, did you know that the official max. speed for the same version is 226 km/h whereas in the automatic version the max. speed drops SIGNIFICANTLY to 210 km/h?!

Mind you that the automatic version was the one tested by EVO magazine... isn't this outrageous?!

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-10-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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      06-10-2012, 09:08 PM   #498
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Three different engines with the same exact displacement (1998cc) and equal number of cylinders (four). Why is the Toyobaru's engine the only one with direct fuel injection and yet the worst of the three?

You could say that it's the most fuel-efficient of the three engines averaging 7.8L/100 km and while that is true the problem is it's not much different from the 8.2L/100 km achieved by the multi-point fuel injection (MPI) Renaultsport's engine if you consider that the Clio RS weights the same 1240 kg BUT has shorter gear ratios... and what about the performance?!

Let's compare the three cars equipped with each of those engines:
  1. Honda Type R FD2
  2. Subaru BRZ
  3. Renault Clio RS


Multiplying the differential ratio with the transmission ratio we have:

............. Type R (FD2)........... Clio RS............ BRZ
1st......... 16.55:1.................... 14.91:1........... 14.88:1
2nd......... 10.78:1.................... 9.34:1............. 8.98:1
3rd.......... 7.69:1..................... 6.74:1............. 6.31:1
4th.......... 5.82:1..................... 5.34:1............. 4.96:1
5th.......... 4.66:1..................... 4.31:1............. 4.10:1
6th.......... 3.74:1..................... 3.60:1............. 3.20:1
Redline..... 8600 rpm................. 7400 rpm.......... 7400 rpm
Torque.... 159 lb-ft................. 159 lb-ft.......... 151 lb-ft
Power....... 222 hp..................... 203 hp............ 200 hp
CR............ 11.7:1..................... 11.5:1............. 12.5:1
BoreXStroke 86x86 mm................ 82.7x93 mm..... 86x86 mm
Displac...... 1998 cc................... 1998 cc .......... 1998 cc
Weight...... 1270 kg.................... 1240 kg ......... 1239 kg
0-62 mph... 6.3 s........................ 6.9 s.............. 7.6 s
Max Speed. 241 km/h.................. 225 km/h......... 226 km/h



So I ask why in hell does the Toyobaru's engine have such a high compression ratio (12.5:1) if it can't make the most of it?! Poor engineering then?!

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-10-2012 at 09:16 PM.
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      06-10-2012, 10:29 PM   #499
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      06-11-2012, 04:40 AM   #500
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It's nothing fancy... you can do it even in a 1.8 with a blown diff bone stock miata :

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      06-11-2012, 04:46 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post






Three different engines with the same exact displacement (1998cc) and equal number of cylinders (four). Why is the Toyobaru's engine the only one with direct fuel injection and yet the worst of the three?

You could say that it's the most fuel-efficient of the three engines averaging 7.8L/100 km and while that is true the problem is it's not much different from the 8.2L/100 km achieved by the multi-point fuel injection (MPI) Renaultsport's engine if you consider that the Clio RS weights the same 1240 kg BUT has shorter gear ratios... and what about the performance?!

Let's compare the three cars equipped with each of those engines:
  1. Honda Type R FD2
  2. Subaru BRZ
  3. Renault Clio RS


Multiplying the differential ratio with the transmission ratio we have:

............. Type R (FD2)........... Clio RS............ BRZ
1st......... 16.55:1.................... 14.91:1........... 14.88:1
2nd......... 10.78:1.................... 9.34:1............. 8.98:1
3rd.......... 7.69:1..................... 6.74:1............. 6.31:1
4th.......... 5.82:1..................... 5.34:1............. 4.96:1
5th.......... 4.66:1..................... 4.31:1............. 4.10:1
6th.......... 3.74:1..................... 3.60:1............. 3.20:1
Redline..... 8600 rpm................. 7400 rpm.......... 7400 rpm
Torque.... 159 lb-ft................. 159 lb-ft.......... 151 lb-ft
Power....... 222 hp..................... 203 hp............ 200 hp
CR............ 11.7:1..................... 11.5:1............. 12.5:1
BoreXStroke 86x86 mm................ 82.7x93 mm..... 86x86 mm
Displac...... 1998 cc................... 1998 cc .......... 1998 cc
Weight...... 1270 kg.................... 1240 kg ......... 1239 kg
0-62 mph... 6.3 s........................ 6.9 s.............. 7.6 s
Max Speed. 241 km/h.................. 225 km/h......... 226 km/h



So I ask why in hell does the Toyobaru's engine have such a high compression ratio (12.5:1) if it can't make the most of it?! Poor engineering then?!



I want this to be answered!
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      06-11-2012, 08:05 AM   #502
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A friend picked one of these up this weekend. It is not a good road car, it is exceptionally slow, at least in my opinion. It might be fun as a track day car because it really does handle beautifully, I can't see any reason someone would buy a Miata as a track day car instead of this. Even so, against drivers of reasonably equal skill I don't think you would be able to keep up with some of the cars people are trying to compare this with...it really is sloooooooooooooooooooooow. Hopefully the STI/TRD (or whatever designation Toyota uses, assuming it comes out with a higher performance model) makes it a better DD.
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      06-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #503
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I can't see any reason someone would buy a Miata as a track day car instead of this.
Because the Miata is the most popular track car there is, with NASA and SCCA class support and they're proven, cheap and plentiful. The BRZ looks promising, has a fixed roof and some smart engineering, but until they've been around for a decade or more, the Miata will continue to be the smarter track choice.

I haven't seen what official race support Subie/Toyota are offering for the 86, but Mazdaspeed provides so much support for the Miata (and other Mazdas) that it's a huge bonus for any aspiring track junkie.
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      06-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #504
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It's nothing fancy... you can do it even in a 1.8 with a blown diff bone stock miata :



lol yeah i know but i would never do that to a new car lol (even if i had the skill).

but then again im not rich lol
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      06-11-2012, 11:10 AM   #505
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Because the Miata is the most popular track car there is, with NASA and SCCA class support and they're proven, cheap and plentiful. The BRZ looks promising, has a fixed roof and some smart engineering, but until they've been around for a decade or more, the Miata will continue to be the smarter track choice.
And here lays the problem... the Toyobaru has so, SO much potential and yet we ending up comparing it to the Miata performance wise. Why?!

Because the engine should have a fat torque curve without dips and peaks over the entire rpm range like the Renaultsport's engine (Renaultsport surely knows how to do a proper engine):

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      06-11-2012, 11:42 AM   #506
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I am really surprised that this car has 12.5:1 compression and can only offer 200hp. What are they doing? DI engines are great, but it seems Subaru don't have the ability to pull the power out in a NA engine.
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