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      06-05-2012, 07:57 AM   #89
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While I will give him credit for going into Pakistan to get him and for not deconstructing the anti-terrorism network that had been created post 9/11, I don't really know if he really had a choice. If he had a chance to get Bin Laden and chose not too, how do you sell that to the American public? Because we all know at some point that would get leaked that he had a clear shot and didn't take it. But what I don't agree with was what happened afterword. With the post mission press conference and the information leak about how the mission worked and what units were involved. Not to mention doesn't Bush get some credit as well? Just because we didn't get him when he was in office doesn't mean that his efforts for all those years didn't count. I believe that it has been reported that some of the information that was used to find him was directly related to Bush's efforts.
So you're saying that he did something, which is the opposite of nothing, which was e90soflo's comment. Some of you may or may not agree with the President's policies, but you can't go around saying he has done nothing, it's dishonest at best.

Here is a list of accomplishments President Obama has done:

http://obamaachievements.org/list

Saying that has done nothing is a bald faced lie.
Ok, let's just get this straight. I am not an Obama bashed or supporter, he did surprisingly well on Foreign Policy and about as expected on the economy. He also let me down a bit on science/social issues. Anyhow he does not get credit for the Bin Laden move. The plan was in action before he got into office, all he did was pull the trigger which literally anyone would have done. You could point out a number of other things he has accomplished but that is a weak argument.
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      06-05-2012, 08:28 AM   #90
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When are you going to stop posting foolish, stupid, baseless thoughts and conjecture? The article you reference doesn't even remotely support your commentary.

If anything, between the well documented dying-off of republicans, and the expansion of urbanesque suburbs, it's the GOP that's doomed. In any case, I'd recommend you research how to go about posting fact-based viewpoints, or just stop posting.
FACTS??? You know the cons have no idea what FACTS are!
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      06-05-2012, 08:53 AM   #91
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Ok, let's just get this straight. I am not an Obama bashed or supporter, he did surprisingly well on Foreign Policy and about as expected on the economy. He also let me down a bit on science/social issues. Anyhow he does not get credit for the Bin Laden move. The plan was in action before he got into office, all he did was pull the trigger which literally anyone would have done. You could point out a number of other things he has accomplished but that is a weak argument.
So saying President Obama has done nothing is a strong argument?
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      06-05-2012, 09:06 AM   #92
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So saying President Obama has done nothing is a strong argument?
I don't think that is the argument they are trying to make (except e90soflo, he said exactly that which is retarded). Obama has accomplished a lot, I don't agree with all of his policies but I won't say he hasn't done anything, that's just nonsense.

I think the others are trying to say that he doesn't deserve so much credit for the killing of Bin Laden, which I kind of agree with. I think if (almost) anyone was presented with strong evidence that they could conduct a raid and kill him, they would have made the call to do it. It was a little bit of a rough call since we didn't quite have the go ahead from Pakistan, so I give him credit for not backing down in that aspect for sure.
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      06-05-2012, 09:30 AM   #93
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I don't think that is the argument they are trying to make (except e90soflo, he said exactly that which is retarded). Obama has accomplished a lot, I don't agree with all of his policies but I won't say he hasn't done anything, that's just nonsense.

I think the others are trying to say that he doesn't deserve so much credit for the killing of Bin Laden, which I kind of agree with. I think if (almost) anyone was presented with strong evidence that they could conduct a raid and kill him, they would have made the call to do it. It was a little bit of a rough call since we didn't quite have the go ahead from Pakistan, so I give him credit for not backing down in that aspect for sure.
That's what I was trying to say and I think we can all also agree that Pakistan has been the greatest "ally" to us, so like I said earlier I think they knew he was in the country and refused to tell us that. So while the call to go ahead was a bit risky, I don't think he had a choice.

Didn't Pakistan just jail the doctor that helped the US find Bin Laden?

Plus xbook hasn't answered my questions if Bush and or Gitmo deserves any credit for the intel that found his location.

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      06-05-2012, 09:44 AM   #94
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Ok, let's just get this straight. I am not an Obama bashed or supporter, he did surprisingly well on Foreign Policy and about as expected on the economy. He also let me down a bit on science/social issues. Anyhow he does not get credit for the Bin Laden move. The plan was in action before he got into office, all he did was pull the trigger which literally anyone would have done. You could point out a number of other things he has accomplished but that is a weak argument.
So saying President Obama has done nothing is a strong argument?
Did you not read my entire post? I said that you could site any number of things he has accomplished but choosing that one was foolish as it is a weak argument. I already stated that I am not an Obama basher and he has done better than expected in some areas. The fact someone else has made a poor point in no way strengthens what you said.
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      06-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #95
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Sorry for not picking out the best policy for his accomplishments in my pointing out that President Obama has done more than "nothing". I wasn't trying to bring the rest of you into the argument as an overall debate on the Bin Laden's death. I was trying to point out one thing to e90soflo. I'lll refrain from discussing Bin Laden's death in the future.
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      06-05-2012, 11:54 AM   #96
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Sorry for not picking out the best policy for his accomplishments in my pointing out that President Obama has done more than "nothing". I wasn't trying to bring the rest of you into the argument as an overall debate on the Bin Laden's death. I was trying to point out one thing to e90soflo. I'lll refrain from discussing Bin Laden's death in the future.
Well you had a fair point that I only spoke out on one side of te argument so here is the other:

Obama has accomplished the following while in office that I view in a positive light:

- Strong FP stance on China and world economic matters.

- Ended "Don't ask, don't tell", a regressive policy that in my eyes was a blatant violation of civil liberties

- Expanded drone strikes and DoD funding for special operations missions and intelligence gathering. Essentially supported fighting a "smarter war"

- Appointed 2 pro-choice supreme court justices.

Now, things Obama has done that I don't necessarily love but are accomplishments nonetheless:

- Shut down Guantanamo Bay

- Stuck to this Bush timeline for pulling out of Iraq

- Passed action to revamp the credit industry, disallowing much fraud on the consumer front.

- Expanded clean energy and alternative energy research funding

- Expanded same-sex partner rights

- Headed up legislation on overhauling a broken healthcare system

There are many things he's done well, some I wish he had done more on and some that I simply disagree with. Still there are "accomplishments" present on his record. Let us not forget also that he has been forced to deal with an especially uncooperative congress.
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      06-05-2012, 12:35 PM   #97
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Hey, gay-basher's back! For the umpteenth time, there's no such word as "raciest", it's racist.
LOL this $hit made me die
he can't spell racist, and now you have him/her looking the number "umteenth"
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      06-05-2012, 03:20 PM   #98
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I think that the less Obama does, the better America is. I can't wait until the Supreme Court overturns his healthcare reform in a couple of weeks, that will be the final nail in his presidential coffin. The Wisconsin recall elections today won't make matters any better for the democrats either. So long liberals, America has had enough of your stupidity!
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      06-05-2012, 03:36 PM   #99
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I think that the less EvosM3 posts, the better America is. So long EvosM3, America has had enough of your stupidity!
fixed...
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      06-09-2012, 01:02 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by JesterEXW View Post
Anyhow he does not get credit for the Bin Laden move. The plan was in action before he got into office, all he did was pull the trigger which literally anyone would have done. You could point out a number of other things he has accomplished but that is a weak argument.
Sorry but you're not correct. Surveillance was underway before Obama was in office but the actual raid was not planned till January of 2011. Obama was intimately involved in the planning and made key decisions such as overruling a joint operation with Pakistani forces which ensured operational security and deciding to equip the team to fight it's way out if necessary. Both decisions proved to be fateful in the success of the mission.

I'm amazed when people say the president get's no credit for the success of the mission to kill Bin Laden. No one would deny if anything had gone wrong he would certainly get all the blame.
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      06-09-2012, 08:43 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by JesterEXW View Post
Anyhow he does not get credit for the Bin Laden move. The plan was in action before he got into office, all he did was pull the trigger which literally anyone would have done. You could point out a number of other things he has accomplished but that is a weak argument.
Sorry but you're not correct. Surveillance was underway before Obama was in office but the actual raid was not planned till January of 2011. Obama was intimately involved in the planning and made key decisions such as overruling a joint operation with Pakistani forces which ensured operational security and deciding to equip the team to fight it's way out if necessary. Both decisions proved to be fateful in the success of the mission.

I'm amazed when people say the president get's no credit for the success of the mission to kill Bin Laden. No one would deny if anything had gone wrong he would certainly get all the blame.
I don't want to get too into this but I feel obligated to provide a response. Much of my career revolves around military action, political policy as well as other aspects. I believe you are somewhat misinformed on the subject. While Obama did approve the strike he was certainly not the one to initiate the operation or to plan it. It was rolling prior to his taking office. If you honestly believe that the POTUS sat there planning Infil and Exfil routes, HLZs, Quarantines, Air Space Deconfliction and other low level aspects then you are obviously not familiar with how it all works.
I will say this again, he signed off on it, and for that I give him credit but not much. Anyone would have made the same decision and he did not set the program rolling, he was just lucky enough to reap the rewards since it went down on his watch.
The initial point was this: if you are going to post pro-Obama points here then do your cause justice and pick things that can be directly attributable to him. I am not anti-Obama I am simply anti-weak arguments that waste everyone's time. I would have said the same thing if Romney were in office when this all went down.
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      06-09-2012, 04:23 PM   #102
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I thought this was about Mormons and their magic undies?
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      06-09-2012, 09:57 PM   #103
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I thought this was about Mormons and their magic undies?
A good number of religions wear special clothing (Judaism and Catholicism to name two). An even larger number of various organizations wear special clothing. We call them garments. There is nothing magical about them. They are simply an outward expression of an inner commitment to Jesus Christ and we wear them as a constant reminder of the commitments we have made to follow the teachings of Christ and keep the commandants to the best of our ability. They are biblical in nature (from Exodus). They are symbolic. Two links below if you want to understand them a bit better:

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/t...underwear.html

http://mormon-underwear.com/

Last edited by litt; 06-09-2012 at 10:13 PM. Reason: typos, clarification
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      06-10-2012, 05:28 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by JesterEXW View Post
I don't want to get too into this but I feel obligated to provide a response. Much of my career revolves around military action, political policy as well as other aspects. I believe you are somewhat misinformed on the subject. While Obama did approve the strike he was certainly not the one to initiate the operation or to plan it. It was rolling prior to his taking office. If you honestly believe that the POTUS sat there planning Infil and Exfil routes, HLZs, Quarantines, Air Space Deconfliction and other low level aspects then you are obviously not familiar with how it all works.
I will say this again, he signed off on it, and for that I give him credit but not much. Anyone would have made the same decision and he did not set the program rolling, he was just lucky enough to reap the rewards since it went down on his watch.
The initial point was this: if you are going to post pro-Obama points here then do your cause justice and pick things that can be directly attributable to him. I am not anti-Obama I am simply anti-weak arguments that waste everyone's time. I would have said the same thing if Romney were in office when this all went down.
And I don't want to hijack my own thread but I don't concede your point. Firstly you mischarachterized my words. I never stated that Obama initiated the mission or the plan. I said he was involved in the planning, to the extent he made some key decisions, including the decision to pull the trigger, for which I give him full credit. For me it's not a given that any president would have made that decision given the potential consequences of a botched mission. The fallout could have been catastrophic not just for the president, but most importantly it would have been devastating blow to the morale and standing in the world of the US military and to the psyche of all US citizens. You might want to minimize that but in my opinion the stakes couldn't have been more huge. He rightfully gets the credit he deserves.

Now, back to Mormanism...
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      06-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #105
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I don't want to get too into this but I feel obligated to provide a response. Much of my career revolves around military action, political policy as well as other aspects. I believe you are somewhat misinformed on the subject. While Obama did approve the strike he was certainly not the one to initiate the operation or to plan it. It was rolling prior to his taking office. If you honestly believe that the POTUS sat there planning Infil and Exfil routes, HLZs, Quarantines, Air Space Deconfliction and other low level aspects then you are obviously not familiar with how it all works.
I will say this again, he signed off on it, and for that I give him credit but not much. Anyone would have made the same decision and he did not set the program rolling, he was just lucky enough to reap the rewards since it went down on his watch.
The initial point was this: if you are going to post pro-Obama points here then do your cause justice and pick things that can be directly attributable to him. I am not anti-Obama I am simply anti-weak arguments that waste everyone's time. I would have said the same thing if Romney were in office when this all went down.
And I don't want to hijack my own thread but I don't concede your point. Firstly you mischarachterized my words. I never stated that Obama initiated the mission or the plan. I said he was involved in the planning, to the extent he made some key decisions, including the decision to pull the trigger, for which I give him full credit. For me it's not a given that any president would have made that decision given the potential consequences of a botched mission. The fallout could have been catastrophic not just for the president, but most importantly it would have been devastating blow to the morale and standing in the world of the US military and to the psyche of all US citizens. You might want to minimize that but in my opinion the stakes couldn't have been more huge. He rightfully gets the credit he deserves.

Now, back to Mormanism...
Fair enough, we will agree to disagree on the point. Sorry for assisting in bringing the conversation way OT, good conversation all around though.
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