BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-25-2012, 05:07 PM   #23
M3PO
Colonel
32

 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC


Posts: 2,753
iTrader: (7)

Surprise! The bearings in my '08 are wearing out! Oh joy! This is why I love Blackstone. They know their shit. And no, I don't drive it too hard. Just one canyon blast.

edit: And BMW is batshit crazy to say that it's okay to run the oil for 15,000 miles. It'd run out of additive and you'd start gumming things up long before that.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 05:51 PM   #24
leo95se
Lieutenant
United_States
7

 
Drives: 09 JB e92, Q5 and passat
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CT


Posts: 494
iTrader: (1)

Try another analysis in 8k miles. Wonder what bmw will say about the bearings. My numbers have been high too.
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 08:14 PM   #25
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
United_States
43

 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


Posts: 3,817
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Surprise! The bearings in my '08 are wearing out! Oh joy! This is why I love Blackstone. They know their shit. And no, I don't drive it too hard. Just one canyon blast.

edit: And BMW is batshit crazy to say that it's okay to run the oil for 15,000 miles. It'd run out of additive and you'd start gumming things up long before that.
That TBN rating is bizzarre. Although it is also somewhat bizzarre to me that they don't always include the TBN rating. Do you do your own oil changes? If not, you sure the dealer is using the right oil?

Also - who is taking the sample? The dealer or you? Because you need to catch the sample in the middle of the oil draining. If you take it at the end, it could make it look at lot worst than it actually is.

As far as wear goes - there are a number of people that have talked about the redesign on the bearings, although it doesn't seem exactly clear to me what changed. So their could be some issue there.

Running higher octane and/or a less aggressive tune might help as well. No way to tell without logging. If you are getting detonation, that will increase wear on the bearings. What fuel supplier?

Also, you are always letting it warm up fully before romping on it right? Pushing it too hard too soon can definitely cause additional wear.

Sorry you are worried about this...just offering up some suggestions that may help.

Good luck man.
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 09:35 PM   #26
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
74

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC


Posts: 6,777
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
And BMW is batshit crazy to say that it's okay to run the oil for 15,000 miles. It'd run out of additive and you'd start gumming things up long before that.
AMEN..glad you got your mind right..been saying this for years
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 10:32 PM   #27
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
United_States
43

 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


Posts: 3,817
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
AMEN..glad you got your mind right..been saying this for years
So your position is that BMW knowingly destroys their own engines by extending oil change intervals? What is their goal with this strategy?

You know his results are out of line with other engines of this type and the same interval of use right?
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 10:51 PM   #28
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
74

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC


Posts: 6,777
iTrader: (4)

I dont think I said anything of the kind..just merely staying within a safe margin of error with oil changes interval..the small cost doesnt justify not changing oil more frequently than recommended by BMW
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 11:03 PM   #29
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
United_States
43

 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


Posts: 3,817
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
I dont think I said anything of the kind..just merely staying within a safe margin of error with oil changes interval..the small cost doesnt justify not changing oil more frequently than recommended by BMW
See but your statement implies that it is not safe to follow the recommended interval. Changing it more often certainly won't hurt, I guess except from the perspective of waste, I've just yet to see anyone explain why an engine builder would knowingly put their equipment at risk.

Did you know that the great Ferrari now has 12,500 mile oil change intervals?
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 11:09 PM   #30
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
74

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC


Posts: 6,777
iTrader: (4)

Waste?..Last i checked oil gets recycled? The only waste you are really considering is cost..A $200 oil change vs $thousands in potential repairs..I guess you dont subscribe to preventative maintenance
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 11:18 PM   #31
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
United_States
43

 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


Posts: 3,817
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Waste?..Last i checked oil gets recycled? The only waste you are really considering is cost..A $200 oil change vs $thousands in potential repairs..I guess you dont subscribe to preventative maintenance
I don't know at what rate oil gets recycled, but it certainly requires energy to do so, so yes there is waste.

My BMW has preventative maintenance, you just don't agree with the interval.
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2012, 11:19 PM   #32
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
74

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC


Posts: 6,777
iTrader: (4)

To each their own I guess I dont wan to be a lab rat with BMWs “recommended” intervals..I will err on the side of caution.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2012, 04:28 PM   #33
M3PO
Colonel
32

 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC


Posts: 2,753
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
That TBN rating is bizzarre. Although it is also somewhat bizzarre to me that they don't always include the TBN rating. Do you do your own oil changes? If not, you sure the dealer is using the right oil?

Also - who is taking the sample? The dealer or you? Because you need to catch the sample in the middle of the oil draining. If you take it at the end, it could make it look at lot worst than it actually is.

As far as wear goes - there are a number of people that have talked about the redesign on the bearings, although it doesn't seem exactly clear to me what changed. So their could be some issue there.

Running higher octane and/or a less aggressive tune might help as well. No way to tell without logging. If you are getting detonation, that will increase wear on the bearings. What fuel supplier?

Also, you are always letting it warm up fully before romping on it right? Pushing it too hard too soon can definitely cause additional wear.

Sorry you are worried about this...just offering up some suggestions that may help.

Good luck man.
This oil was put in by the dealer before I bought it. The PO was "taking it to term" and only changing the oil when it was free (every 15K). I bought the car shortly after the last dealer change and only ran the oil for ~7800. I do my own changes. I think it's the right oil based on Blackstone's measurements. I took the sample myself mid drain. I let it idle until the cold start cycle finishes and then go easy on it until it's fully warmed up. I only use Chevron 91 from a station with separate hoses for each grade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
So your position is that BMW knowingly destroys their own engines by extending oil change intervals? What is their goal with this strategy?

You know his results are out of line with other engines of this type and the same interval of use right?
BMW only cares that the engine lasts beyond the warranty period plus enough not to provoke any lawsuits. They're not engineering these things to last as long as possible. It's a planned obsolescence sort of thing IMO where they keep you coming back for another one. They'd never meet their bottom line if the cars never wore out and they offered free oil changes that maximized engine lifetime.

Also, I don't think my results are out of line with other people's experiences based on this thread.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2012, 07:00 PM   #34
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
United_States
43

 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


Posts: 3,817
iTrader: (3)

Free oil changes is US only.

Most people buy in and out of luxury cars long before the engine is even approaching any serious age, so I don't see the planned obsolescence argument. Cars are staying on the road longer than ever now.

Your tbn is low and metals are high for the interval IMO. Although in general, UOA's don't speak to the ability of the oil to actually lubricate the engine. 91 octane has a better chance of causing more wear than 12k-15k mile oil changes IMO. Detonation is what beats up the bearings and you will not run the best timing on 91.

Although again, there has been some hearsay that the 08 bearings are even tighter than the 09s, and therefore could wear worse. You also don't know how the previous owner treated the engine.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 04:22 PM   #35
MTROIS
Major
France
22

 
MTROIS's Avatar
 
Drives: on the wrong side of the Ocean
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA


Posts: 1,111
iTrader: (0)

Here is my latest report at 37,000 miles
Attached Images
File Type: pdf MTROIS_Oil Report_M3 E92-101511_June 2012.pdf (34.4 KB, 221 views)
__________________
2008 M3 Coupé | 1995 M3 LTW | BMW CCA Instructor
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2012, 02:55 PM   #36
kawasaki00
Major
13

 
kawasaki00's Avatar
 
Drives: E92
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Charlotte NC


Posts: 1,202
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Although again, there has been some hearsay that the 08 bearings are even tighter than the 09s, and therefore could wear worse. You also don't know how the previous owner treated the engine.
That is the opposite. The tighter the clearance the less wear there will be. I have ran a test report on fresh 10w-60, here is the report in case anyone was wondering.
We have a oil machine at work so it is convenient. I had to block out certain things, sorry.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2012, 06:19 PM   #37
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
United_States
43

 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA


Posts: 3,817
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
That is the opposite. The tighter the clearance the less wear there will be. I have ran a test report on fresh 10w-60, here is the report in case anyone was wondering.
We have a oil machine at work so it is convenient. I had to block out certain things, sorry.
Ehhhh. Obviously there is a happy medium. Too tight or too loose is going to be a problem. At least one experienced mechanic on this board has given his opinion that the clearance is too tight.

Thanks for the report.
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2012, 04:34 PM   #38
Leonardo629
Major
United_States
13

 
Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Walnut, CA


Posts: 1,206
iTrader: (9)

Just got my results back from Blackstone

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...26#Post2722326
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2012, 02:52 AM   #39
Mike Benvo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
92


 
Mike Benvo's Avatar
 
Drives: Harrop SC M3 / E46 M3 / 7Turbo
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal


Posts: 4,765
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
Wow, great thread...

I'm seeing a trend of high lead in these engines. Mine also showed elevated lead content. Going to check again in a few thousand miles and see if it dropped.
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2012, 03:04 PM   #40
MSteve5036
Lieutenant
5

 
Drives: 2008 M3 / 96 328is
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: blue dot


Posts: 484
iTrader: (1)

damnit I knew I shouldnt have read this thread. Now I'm all scared. You will see my results up here in a couple months
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2012, 06:18 PM   #41
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
31

 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 1,664
iTrader: (0)

Had my oil tested from Amsoil/Oil Analyzers Inc at 16K + miles (and last oil change was at 1,200 miles) and zero issues. For those who are worried about oiled/cotton gauze filters letting in more silicate, so far so good (I have a MS intake/filter w/ RPI scoops). Will be interesting to have this tested over time. Most dealers are compliant with filling the sample jar at service intervals... apparently quite a few customers ask for it.
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2012, 07:01 PM   #42
Richbot
Colonel
27

 
Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL


Posts: 2,067
iTrader: (2)

Mike -

High lead at what mileage? So far at ~36000 lead in my '08 with no change from the test at ~22k which came up at 5ppm. (been running a test every other change). The next change at 43k will have half a season of pretty frequent autocrossing on it so will be interesting to see if there's a change.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2012, 08:15 PM   #43
Porschefile
Major
16

 
Porschefile's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee


Posts: 1,233
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Wow, great thread...

I'm seeing a trend of high lead in these engines. Mine also showed elevated lead content. Going to check again in a few thousand miles and see if it dropped.
Mine showed 22 ppm lead, and Blackstone noted that it was unusually high. According to the report it isn't at a level high enough to cause serious concern though. 6k miles on the oil (with a handful of track days); 38k on the motor.
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2012, 08:46 PM   #44
M3PO
Colonel
32

 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC


Posts: 2,753
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
Had my oil tested from Amsoil/Oil Analyzers Inc at 16K + miles (and last oil change was at 1,200 miles) and zero issues. For those who are worried about oiled/cotton gauze filters letting in more silicate, so far so good (I have a MS intake/filter w/ RPI scoops). Will be interesting to have this tested over time. Most dealers are compliant with filling the sample jar at service intervals... apparently quite a few customers ask for it.
So you ran the oil for 16k miles?

Can you post the report here please?
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST