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      05-25-2012, 05:22 AM   #1
Autobahn335i
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Solid subframe bushings

Hi,

the M3 GTS and the M3 CRT use solid subframe mounts.

Turner Motorsport offers a similar product. Is any one running these? I was wondering how street driving compliant these are as my car is being used both on the street and the track?
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      05-25-2012, 10:45 AM   #2
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Obviously they won't be compliant...being solid and all but I think the subframe bushings will very tolerable as long as you haven't added other solid bushings in the rear. On my E46, I've found that drivetrain mounts will increase NHV a lot more than suspension bushings.
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      05-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #3
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Solid rear subframe bushings?

On the street you will HATE it ..the rear subframe bushings play a huge part in how the car rides…

Solid subframe bushings are meant for track only

Just curious why you want to do this..I have held the stock M3 rear subframe bushings..they are made of very hard durometer rubber and are very good imo..now if you had the mushy 335i bushings that you could flex by hand those are crap
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      05-25-2012, 11:51 AM   #4
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Well based upon my research it seems that transmission and engine mounts will have the biggest impact on NVH and subframe bushings not so much.
But I'm hoping to get first hand input from someone who got these solid bushings.

I want to improve rear end stability and grip for the most.

Another reason is that the M3 subframe bushings have induced or amplified some weird resonance noise. This does not happen on alot of cars but it did on mine. So getting solid mounts may get totally rid of this, or make it worse than hell
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      05-25-2012, 11:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Solid rear subframe bushings?

On the street you will HATE it ..the rear subframe bushings play a huge part in how the car rides…

Solid subframe bushings are meant for track only

Just curious why you want to do this..I have held the stock M3 rear subframe bushings..they are made of very hard durometer rubber and are very good imo..now if you had the mushy 335i bushings that you could flex by hand those are crap
This isn't exactly correct.

The stock M3 subframe bushings are in fact soft bushings in comparison to what they should be for a car with its weight and power delivery. The E9x M3 exhibits massive torque shock from the drivetrain and it also has a very effective rear suspension system that yields a lot of grip. That large drive force will deflect the factory bushings.

Squeezing bushings in ones hand is not an indicator of how effective a bushing is.

Having solid sub-frame bushings will minimally increase NVH. It is the changing of engine mounts, trans mounts and differential mounts that increase NVH drastically and deteriorate drive-ability. The new M5 has solid bolted rear sub-frame along with the GTS and CRT M3's.

Malek
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      05-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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Why not contact Turner? They should know.
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      05-25-2012, 01:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
This isn't exactly correct.

The stock M3 subframe bushings are in fact soft bushings in comparison to what they should be for a car with its weight and power delivery. The E9x M3 exhibits massive torque shock from the drivetrain and it also has a very effective rear suspension system that yields a lot of grip. That large drive force will deflect the factory bushings.

Squeezing bushings in ones hand is not an indicator of how effective a bushing is.

Having solid sub-frame bushings will minimally increase NVH. It is the changing of engine mounts, trans mounts and differential mounts that increase NVH drastically and deteriorate drive-ability. The new M5 has solid bolted rear sub-frame along with the GTS and CRT M3's.

Malek
Im sorry but i dont agree..its quite the opposite...differntial mounts are more forgiving..but solid rear subframe bushings will greatly impact NVH and ride quality..the entire movement of the rear end of the car is transmitted thru the rear subframe

Not challenging your expertise but I have ridden in both stock 335 bushings, M3 bushing and solid delrin bushings..so i am speaking from my experience..perhaps the factory setups you speak of are different as I only experienced aftermarket
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      05-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Im sorry but i dont agree..its quite the opposite...differntial mounts are more forgiving..but solid rear subframe bushings will greatly impact NVH and ride quality..the entire movement of the rear end of the car is transmitted thru the rear subframe

Not challenging your expertise but I have ridden in both stock 335 bushings, M3 bushing and solid delrin bushings..so i am speaking from my experience..perhaps the factory setups you speak of are different as I only experienced aftermarket
Not sure what experience that you have but mine is the direct opposite with the car that I drive in everyday.
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      05-25-2012, 03:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Not sure what experience that you have but mine is the direct opposite with the car that I drive in everyday.
Do you have the solid subframe bushings in your E90 bigjae?
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      05-25-2012, 04:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX335 View Post
Do you have the solid subframe bushings in your E90 bigjae?
Nope, polys in my E46. I didn't even notice a difference when they went in.
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      05-26-2012, 08:25 AM   #11
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I've used delrin in older cars with no ill effects. As far as I can tell BMW missed the mark with the bushing combinations used in our cars. If they had got it right, we wouldn't have the massive wheel hop issue at the rear. I rarely get in situations that would generate wheel hop, but it's clear the bushing selections were geared more to ride quality than performance. That's fine in a 550 or 328, but completely unacceptable in an M3.
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      05-26-2012, 09:52 AM   #12
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And to think the E90 guys switch out their rear bushings for M3 bushings.
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      05-26-2012, 05:14 PM   #13
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Has anyone on here installed the Turner bushings on their E9x?
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      05-26-2012, 07:23 PM   #14
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This issue of solid subframe bushings was discussed before to some length here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7234453
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      05-27-2012, 11:06 PM   #15
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youre right I have the solid diff mounts installed and there is no noise or vibration. i will be replacing the subframe mounts soon to the delrin mounts



Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Im sorry but i dont agree..its quite the opposite...differntial mounts are more forgiving..but solid rear subframe bushings will greatly impact NVH and ride quality..the entire movement of the rear end of the car is transmitted thru the rear subframe

Not challenging your expertise but I have ridden in both stock 335 bushings, M3 bushing and solid delrin bushings..so i am speaking from my experience..perhaps the factory setups you speak of are different as I only experienced aftermarket
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      05-27-2012, 11:15 PM   #16
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Solid subframe bushings: fine, and will probably improve the car overall. Although they are hard as hell to install if they're like the e36 M3 setup.

Solid motor/trans bushings: crazy NVH and a very poor choice for a street-driven car.
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      05-28-2012, 08:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX335 View Post
Has anyone on here installed the Turner bushings on their E9x?
'Orb' on e90post has installed delrin solid subframe bushings from Turner ms. He runs stiff springs and has alot of torque. Sounds like a good solution for track cars. If I could do it again, I'd go with the BMW motorsport group n subframe bushings; Turner ms sells them too at $800 a set
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      05-28-2012, 08:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
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And to think the E90 guys switch out their rear bushings for M3 bushings.
Big improvement but still experience wheel hop and tracking issues. Shoulda wnet with motorsport bushings
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      06-02-2012, 02:25 PM   #19
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I'm thinking of replacing rear bushing, but I don't want to go solid models from Turner. It's obvious that OEM versions should be replaced...what options I have from between these two? Some polyurethane ones but where to buy them?
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      06-03-2012, 11:08 PM   #20
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^ Powerflex polyurethane or BMW motorsport group n
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      06-09-2012, 06:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
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^ Powerflex polyurethane or BMW motorsport group n
Powerflex doesn't supply for E9xM3. I have to search for group N option...
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      06-09-2012, 08:04 PM   #22
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^Powerflex makes polyurethane bushings for the non-m; they fit the same although I don't know if they'd have less movement than the M3 bushings. They wouldn't be my choice.
Turner sells BMW motorsport group n bushings at $800. a set; that would be my choice if I wanted stiffer bushings than M3. I see you're in Finland; you can probably just have them shipped from Munich.
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