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      04-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #67
kaigoss69
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Originally Posted by taibanl
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Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Hmmm, interesting. I've got the OEM sides/rears in parallel (1 ohm) running off one channel pair on the HD900/5. The fronts (4 ohm) are driven by the HD600/4. With gains set to minimum on "low" (2V) the rears are a few dB louder than the front doors. Theoretically, the max output of the HD900/5 at 1 ohm is 75W and that of the HD600/4 at 4 ohm 150W, so the fronts should be a lot louder, but they are not. I'm not worried about it though since I can raise the gains on the front channels to compensate.

The "low/High" input switch discussion though has got me thinking. I've had a problem with noise on the HD900/5 amp. When I switch from low to high, the noise goes away but of course the output level gets reduced and of I raise the gain to compensate, the noise comes right back. I was thinking, since the MS-8's speaker level outputs are of very good quality, what if I used those instead of the low level RCAs? Any potential downsides to doing that? This may be a good solution since it would kill 2 birds with one stone - getting rid of the engine noise AND utilizing the reportedly superior input option on the HD amps.
Why is the high level input, reportedly superior.
Sorry, just saw this now. Honestly I don't remember why I said that!
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      04-25-2012, 08:08 PM   #68
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Why is the high level input, reportedly superior.
I'd be interested in the answer to this as well.

My HD600/4 has the same issues as reported above, but I've determined its an input signal issue (present even with the OE HiFi amp). The car is an E82 with HiFi + Technic harness adapter. Taking the front channels from the harness to the HD in conjunction with the low input setting (gains at min), I get noise. Switching to high voltage removes the noise but as mentioned above, it returns when the gains of the amp are turned up.

Recently I ran the front channels from the Technic harness into a Mosconi 6to8 DSP. This processor has low/high input settings as well. Interestingly, I ended up using a high voltage input configuration to the 6to8 and retained the low voltage setting at the input of the HD. Other combinations resulted in what sounded like a really compressed signal; very poor sound quality with an unnatural dynamic range.
One thing I don't like about the HD amps is the proximity of the power terminals to the RCA plugs. I found out that the noise was being picked up at the RCA plug from the ground wire that was running within 1/4" of the RCA plug. If you run the power wires and RCAs in opposite directions, there is no noise.
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      04-26-2012, 05:55 PM   #69
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Kaigoss & Technic & VP if you are around:

Please check out this post - deciding on XD (fully active front) vs HD (2-way front)
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ml#post1616130
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      04-26-2012, 06:00 PM   #70
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MS-8 is needed as a LOC device for signal to the amps afaik.

I was under the impression with the correct harness, nothing like that was needed, the signal just goes right into the amp and out to the speakers.
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      04-26-2012, 06:03 PM   #71
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I was under the impression with the correct harness, nothing like that was needed, the signal just goes right into the amp and out to the speakers.
If your system is coded to HiFi, you can go straight into an amp. If its coded for Individual Audio/EPS or Logic7/HarmanKardon, you will need MS-8 or LOC device.
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      04-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
If your system is coded to HiFi, you can go straight into an amp. If its coded for Individual Audio/EPS or Logic7/HarmanKardon, you will need MS-8 or LOC device.
I don't think this is true
Maximum input level on the hi level inputs on the ms-8 is 15volts
Maximum voltage on the underseat subs in the eps is 30 volts
Which means you can't get any bass signal into the ms-8
I guess you could use the ms-8 for mids only
But you'd be at the mercy of whatever the factory high pass frequency is on the mids

You could use a ms-8 AND lc2i
So all the speaker outs go to ms-8
Underseat subs go to lc2i THEN ms-8
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      04-26-2012, 08:12 PM   #73
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:shrug: not sure. I do know that andy has said 2.8v inputs of ms8 are fine with 5v head unit signal.
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      04-26-2012, 08:47 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
:shrug: not sure. I do know that andy has said 2.8v inputs of ms8 are fine with 5v head unit signal.
With eps or logic 7 there is no head unit out
The hifi has 5v out
With eps/l7 the head unit out is optical straight into amp
So the only way to tap the signal is after the amp
Hence why the voltages are so much higher, because you are using speaker outs
I wish we could go from Eps to ms-8
I wouldn't have sold my ms-8 then
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      04-26-2012, 08:51 PM   #75
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I understand completely. But as peak voltage in hifi is 5v --> low level 2.8v input; similarly 30v peak eps voltage into 15v input is about the same. Bottom line is that as long as you dont turn the volume knob up the last few clicks, you wouldnt get clipping. I cant be sure it works the same on low level vs hi level but i cant think of a reason why it wouldnt.

One way to find out. Ask andy over on diyma
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      04-27-2012, 04:33 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
I understand completely. But as peak voltage in hifi is 5v --> low level 2.8v input; similarly 30v peak eps voltage into 15v input is about the same. Bottom line is that as long as you dont turn the volume knob up the last few clicks, you wouldnt get clipping. I cant be sure it works the same on low level vs hi level but i cant think of a reason why it wouldnt.

One way to find out. Ask andy over on diyma
The HiFi balanced outputs is about 3V AC peak. The 6V is the DC + and -.

The main problem of the EPS system is not that much the 30V peaks on the woofer side. It is the discrepancy between those 30V and the 15V or so of the rest of the speakers. So depending on the summing device used it may induce slight pops thru the tweeters at bass hits.

The Cleansweep summing device and the bit one.1 showed those problems when connected directly to the EPS OEM amp outputs in my initial two installs. That's the reason I ended up adding an LC6i to the bit one.1 so I can adjust the woofer outputs gain relative to the front speakers before the summing, and then input the summed signal into the bit one.1.

Now I just go directly to decoding and avoid all this patch work.
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      04-27-2012, 10:23 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volktronic View Post
I was under the impression with the correct harness, nothing like that was needed, the signal just goes right into the amp and out to the speakers.
I'm only referring to what Technic and I did in this project. The Tech is mistaken in this regard, I believe.

In the Stereo cars, the speaker interface isn't the issue, it's the correction.

But it's incorrect to say "all that's needed is the right harness". 97% of all aftermarket amplifiers sold are NOT compatible with the signal out of ANY BMW audio system with ANY harness. Even HiFi system signals are only usable by amps with balanced inputs.

A few amps can take the woofer signal directly in without distortion in a Logic 7/HK add-a-sub arrangement.

But most amps on the market are common-ground RCA input, and if they have a "speaker-level" input, it's a balanced input with a lot of attenuation in front of it (which usually ruins your noise floor with a lower-voltage preamp signal which needs no attenuation). Common-ground RCA input means the outer ring of the RCA is grounded, and this shorts the (-) clamped DC leg of the HiFi audio output.
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      04-27-2012, 10:55 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP Electricity View Post
I'm only referring to what Technic and I did in this project. The Tech is mistaken in this regard, I believe.

In the Stereo cars, the speaker interface isn't the issue, it's the correction.

But it's incorrect to say "all that's needed is the right harness". 97% of all aftermarket amplifiers sold are NOT compatible with the signal out of ANY BMW audio system with ANY harness. Even HiFi system signals are only usable by amps with balanced inputs.

A few amps can take the woofer signal directly in without distortion in a Logic 7/HK add-a-sub arrangement.

But most amps on the market are common-ground RCA input, and if they have a "speaker-level" input, it's a balanced input with a lot of attenuation in front of it (which usually ruins your noise floor with a lower-voltage preamp signal which needs no attenuation). Common-ground RCA input means the outer ring of the RCA is grounded, and this shorts the (-) clamped DC leg of the HiFi audio output.
Correct, you can skip the MS-8 but wasn't sure if it was the best way or not.
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      04-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #79
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technic-this website won't let me PM you. would love to talk to you about my sound system upgrade from the HiFi on my 2012 328xi coupe. give me a call if you can. 832-265-0376. thanks
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      04-30-2012, 06:14 AM   #80
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technic-this website won't let me PM you. would love to talk to you about my sound system upgrade from the HiFi on my 2012 328xi coupe. give me a call if you can. 832-265-0376. thanks
You do not have enough postings to PM yet. Keep posting and then PM, please. No phone calls.
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      05-01-2012, 01:19 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by VP Electricity View Post
I'm only referring to what Technic and I did in this project. The Tech is mistaken in this regard, I believe.

In the Stereo cars, the speaker interface isn't the issue, it's the correction.

But it's incorrect to say "all that's needed is the right harness". 97% of all aftermarket amplifiers sold are NOT compatible with the signal out of ANY BMW audio system with ANY harness. Even HiFi system signals are only usable by amps with balanced inputs.

A few amps can take the woofer signal directly in without distortion in a Logic 7/HK add-a-sub arrangement.

But most amps on the market are common-ground RCA input, and if they have a "speaker-level" input, it's a balanced input with a lot of attenuation in front of it (which usually ruins your noise floor with a lower-voltage preamp signal which needs no attenuation). Common-ground RCA input means the outer ring of the RCA is grounded, and this shorts the (-) clamped DC leg of the HiFi audio output.


If I have hifi, using Technic's harness, will I be ok hooking up a XD600/6 to power everything including new woofers under the seats? You mentioned most amps don't do this well...thanks for all the info so far.
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      05-01-2012, 04:36 PM   #82
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If I have hifi, using Technic's harness, will I be ok hooking up a XD600/6 to power everything including new woofers under the seats? You mentioned most amps don't do this well...thanks for all the info so far.
XD600/6 has balanced differential input so you should be covered.
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      05-20-2012, 01:48 PM   #83
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The HiFi balanced outputs is about 3V AC peak. The 6V is the DC + and -.
So I am prepping my car for the installation of my HD series and i crimped on this Right angle RCA twisted pair

http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-TWB-3RA.../dp/B00322QF4I

I measured DCV @ 55/55 on OEM HU and I got 27mV on left and 2.7mV on right. I was not able to measure ACV as the meter I have only has a 200 and a 750v range for ACV

Possible I have a bad connection before I go dropping these amps in?

Also, the 2.8v INPUT of the MS-8, is that ACV or DCV?
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      05-20-2012, 03:32 PM   #84
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So I am prepping my car for the installation of my HD series and i crimped on this Right angle RCA twisted pair

http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-TWB-3RA.../dp/B00322QF4I

I measured DCV @ 55/55 on OEM HU and I got 27mV on left and 2.7mV on right. I was not able to measure ACV as the meter I have only has a 200 and a 750v range for ACV

Possible I have a bad connection before I go dropping these amps in?

Also, the 2.8v INPUT of the MS-8, is that ACV or DCV?
Ok. so its 2.8vAC RMS.

I got a better 1khz test tone and got 4.3vAC at the end of the RCA
s (L/R) 55/55, at 53/55 I was able to get 2.8-2/9vAC

I still am curious as to why I was able to get a vDC reading that was 27mV on the left and 2.7mV on the right...wierd.

Another weird thing. NONE of the speakers in my car are connected to anything (amps and ms-8 currently out). Yet...when playing the 1kHZ test tone I could clearly hear it from somewhere in my car (it was intermittent). It was just a bit louder than say a hearing booth test but definitely there. Is it possible that playing a 0dB tone, the voltage is high enough to induce a signal into the speaker lines behind the HU (technic harness)?
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      05-21-2012, 12:40 AM   #85
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Technic, after numerous searches I have decided to purchase an MS-8 for my EPS (coded to HiFi) and will be needing a harness from you! Do you mind posting the price shipped within CONUS? Also, do you sell wiring kits? For now I just plan on running an MS-8 however that may change in the future. One last question, can I replace the subwoofers at a later date or will I chance blowing them with the MS-8? Looking at the specifications I highly doubt it but wanted to double check first, thank you.
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      05-21-2012, 08:57 AM   #86
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Technic, after numerous searches I have decided to purchase an MS-8 for my EPS (coded to HiFi) and will be needing a harness from you! Do you mind posting the price shipped within CONUS? Also, do you sell wiring kits? For now I just plan on running an MS-8 however that may change in the future. One last question, can I replace the subwoofers at a later date or will I chance blowing them with the MS-8? Looking at the specifications I highly doubt it but wanted to double check first, thank you.
The EPS underseat woofers are 7ohms... the MS-8 will barely power them.

You will need a separate amp for the OEM EPS woofers.

Please PM for details on the harness.
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      05-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #87
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Any plans to look at PDX-V9+PDX-F4?
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      09-14-2012, 09:23 AM   #88
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You have any pics of your amp rack?
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