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      05-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #67
checkmate
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Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
Do any of you guys that have tracked this tire check tire temps? I'm curious how much heat the PSS will tolerate and at what temp they get "greasy".
Before the hitting the track PSI was around 36. After 2 track sessions, my tire PSI was 45.
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      05-11-2012, 10:35 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
I've seen several posts about transporting track wheels in the back seat. Get wheel bags and put a blanket on the seat. Stand the wheels upright and you can supposedly fit 4 across. Then, just strap them down and your trunk will still be available for tools, luggage, etc.
+1

Getting dedicated track wheels and tires (Apex/NT-01s), and being able to transport them to the track in the backseat has been just the ticket for me.

This allows me to select my street tires for the appropriate characteristics for my DD (quiet, good wet and dry grip, longevity, etc), and still use them once in a blue moon when it rains at the track.

I'm due to replace my PS2s soon and will probably opt for the PSSs.
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      05-11-2012, 10:45 AM   #69
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Before the hitting the track PSI was around 36. After 2 track sessions, my tire PSI was 45.
Not pressure, but temperature.
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      05-11-2012, 10:48 AM   #70
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took my cls to willow with pss. 15 hard laps and they were fine
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      05-11-2012, 12:35 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by checkmate View Post
I wonder why Falken 615Ks aren't on those lists though?
Because they're tires designed and marketed toward DRIFT drivers.

Which isn't to say they're a bad track tire. It's just that no effort is put into marketing them for anything else, so few people use them. Plus the old 615 (without the K) was dominant in AX but overheats quickly for the longer duration of track use, so very few track people use them.

I've got a set of 615Ks that I use for daily on my MZ4 Coupe (245/4018F, 275/35/18R) plus the occasional track day when it rains, or if I expect to see wet weather to and from the track. They do well enough in wet conditions, but don't expect to go fast when there's standing water. The 200 tread wear rating means, after about 10,000 miles on the street and about a dozen track events, they still look like they can go another 10,000 miles.

The biggest difference between the Falkens, and say, the NT-01 I use regularly for track, is despite the R-Comp designation, the RT-615K is not as fast as even the lower end R-Comps like NT-01. I'd say, from the seat of the pants feeling, the RT-615K is probably about 1 second slower than an NT-01per 2 minute lap on average, of the same numbers of heat cycle and tread depth. What I've noticed, is that for the first 3 laps of the session the RT-615K is just as fast as the NT-01, but once enough heat is generated the tire slowly and progressively degrades throughout the session. By lap 5 on a 2 minute long track you're about .5 seconds off and wondering why the guy you've been hounding for the last 3 corners is slowly pulling away. By lap 10 you're dying for the checker flag to fly because instead of hounding guys, guys are hounding you. I've had some success trying to run at a very low tire pressure (on the MZ4 Coupe, which is about 500 lbs lighter than your typical E9x M3), starting at 27psi cold and getting up to about 36psi hot on the RT-615K. You're giving up some initial speed on the first 2 laps, and basically pushing the whole "dropping off" back by a few laps so that you'll get the maximum performance of the tire by about lap 4-7 in a 25 minute long session.

Since it's a "drift" spec tire, it's designed to break loose easily but regain grip easily as well. The sidewalls are stiffer than typical street tires but not nearly as stiff as NT-01 nor Hoosiers. Falls right on the border of being a comfortable enough street tire, and capable enough for DE if you don't care about your lap time. If you want good lap times, you need to shave them, since the blocks are tall enough to have some squirm.
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      05-11-2012, 01:16 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Because they're tires designed and marketed toward DRIFT drivers.
I ran the RT615 about 10 years ago for autocross and track. It was the dominant and most grippy street tire back then. As the new tire compounds came out, it was replaced by the Z1 Star Spec, the RE11, the AD08, NT05 and now the RS3 as the ultimate in the "Extreme performance" category. All of which have more grip and last longer on track before getting greasy.

The RT615K has more grip than the original RT615 but reports say it gets greasy just as fast as the old tire. So it might be a viable autocross tire but can't hold up to the other extreme performance tires on track. And no where as good as a real R-compound.

Still a great aggressive looking tire though!
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      05-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #73
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Since it's a "drift" spec tire, it's designed to break loose easily but regain grip easily as well.
This is what I loved about my Toyo T1R's.

Since I don't push my car so hard on the street, I think drift tires make a more enjoyable street tire. It's fun I'm really after. Not max cornering speed. Plus, I think it's actually safer to have a tire that tells me I'm close to the limit while I still have a chance to do anything about it.
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      05-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #74
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Since I don't push my car so hard on the street, I think drift tires make a more enjoyable street tire. It's fun I'm really after. Not max cornering speed.
Here's an extreme example (125 mm tires on a C63 AMG):


Just want to clarify that I'm talking about street, here. And drift tires, not 125 mm "space savers".
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      05-13-2012, 01:22 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmate View Post
I wonder why Falken 615Ks aren't on those lists though?

Which isn't to say they're a bad track tire. It's just that no effort is put into marketing them for anything else, so few people use them. Plus the old 615 (without the K) was dominant in AX but overheats quickly for the longer duration of track use, so very few track people use them.


The biggest difference between the Falkens, and say, the NT-01 I use regularly for track, is despite the R-Comp designation, the RT-615K is not as fast as even the lower end R-Comps like NT-01. I'd say, from the seat of the pants feeling, the RT-615K is probably about 1 second slower than an NT-01per 2 minute lap on average, of the same numbers of heat cycle and tread depth. What I've noticed, is that for the first 3 laps of the session the RT-615K is just as fast as the NT-01, but once enough heat is generated the tire slowly and progressively degrades throughout the session. By lap 5 on a 2 minute long track you're about .5 seconds off and wondering why the guy you've been hounding for the last 3 corners is slowly pulling away. By lap 10 you're dying for the checker flag to fly because instead of hounding guys, guys are hounding you. I've had some success trying to run at a very low tire pressure (on the MZ4 Coupe, which is about 500 lbs lighter than your typical E9x M3), starting at 27psi cold and getting up to about 36psi hot on the RT-615K. You're giving up some initial speed on the first 2 laps, and basically pushing the whole "dropping off" back by a few laps so that you'll get the maximum performance of the tire by about lap 4-7 in a 25 minute long session.

.
Agree what you are saying. However I do think that the RT615k is a very nice compromise between track- (not as intence as you disclosed lapping 10/10ths for 25 min sessions) short stints 3-4 laps and DD use barring winter . Tyres are always about compromise.
I do not like to lap my car 10/10 ths because as you prob know its very very hard on the vehicle. I want to keep my M love it. I have an old E36 race car that was re-built for track use that laps faster than road cars and dont care to lap it 10/10ths all day. But you know thats just me
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      05-13-2012, 01:45 AM   #76
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Question to The Hack. How do Nitto NT01 compare to Hoosier R6 on the track race conditions? Havnt tried NT01 yet.
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      05-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #77
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For mixed use, I love AD08s. Still use them for the street.

For track, a great way to go is Continental (Hoosier) Grand Am slicks. Square 275s on something like ARC-8 wheels. They're affordable and once you get used to them they're incredibly fun!
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      05-19-2012, 07:09 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriansideways View Post
Question to The Hack. How do Nitto NT01 compare to Hoosier R6 on the track race conditions? Havnt tried NT01 yet.
NT-01 is like weed. Hoosier R6 is like heroine.

I took brand new, no heat cycle Hoosier R6 to Auto Club Speedway once, and was absolutely FLOORED at the stuff i was able to get away with. And the A6 is supposedly even stickier.

No offense to those who like the NT-01. It IS a great tire. And I continue to use it for most of my track events. They last long, are consistent, and for my use, which is mainly DE, they are tremendous bang for the buck. I can use the NT-01s for about a whole year's worth of events and they'll continue to grip within about 90% of the original level.

I've only used the R6 once, for a total of about 3 heat cycles. I've been told by the guy who sold me the R6 that I've probably got another 2 good heat cycles on it, tops, then the grip will fall off dramatically. I'm almost afraid to put the R6 back on, knowing how addictive the darn near unlimited level of grip is. It had so much more grip compared to the NT-01 that I had to re-learn how to drive the car in the first 3 laps knowing that i can brake much later, turn in even earlier, and trail brake more than usual, and carry MORE speed through just about every turn.

The difference between R6 and NT-01 is almost as wide as say, your typical Extreme Summer tires to NT-01. On a say, 2.5 mile, 2 minute lap course, you're looking at at least 1-1.5 second faster driving the R6 vs. NT-01 at their peaks. At least.
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      05-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #79
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Cool thats what I thought thanx for the info ill try the NT s the Hoosiers are very very expensive over here!
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      05-20-2012, 01:54 PM   #80
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some good info.
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