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      07-18-2007, 08:13 AM   #1
Phoenix 21st
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M-dct bmw response

This is the response that i received just now.

Thank you for your email to BMW Customer Information.

We can advise that a gearbox is being developed that will replace the SMG gearbox in the previous M3, however at present we have no information from BMW Germany regarding details of this gearbox or when it is likely to become available.

We can also confirm that the E92 M3 will initially be available with a manual gearbox only.

We would advise that you register your interest with your BMW dealer, who will be happy to keep you informed as and when any information becomes available.
Details of your nearest dealer can be found at http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/dealerloc...156___,00.html

We hope this is of some interest to you, and we are sorry that we have been unable to offer a more definite response on this occasion.

Yours sincerely

BMW Group UK
Leigh Martyn
Product Information Advisor
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA
Tel: 0800 325600
Fax: 0870 5050 206
Email: customer.information@bmw.co.uk
Website: www.bmw.co.uk
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      07-18-2007, 08:23 AM   #2
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I find it interesting that they are offering a manual transmission that is 7-years old with the brand new M3 at launch.
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Last edited by aerisolphaln; 07-18-2007 at 08:40 AM.
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      07-18-2007, 08:40 AM   #3
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I also hope that M-DCT is ready by the time the M3 is launched in the states as I have no plans on purchasing the manual.
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      07-18-2007, 08:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisolphaln View Post
I find it interesting that they are offering a manual transmission that is 7-years old with the brand new M3 at launch.
I know, right? It is rumored to only have one clutch which you have to actually operate with your left foot. What a PITA! My couch doesn't even have a manual clutch...
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      07-18-2007, 09:50 AM   #5
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I know, right? It is rumored to only have one clutch which you have to actually operate with your left foot. What a PITA! My couch doesn't even have a manual clutch...


Well from our "insider" here, its been said that BMW is hoping and wants to have a simultaneous release of the 6mt and M-DCT along with the coupe and vert for the US market in March.
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      07-18-2007, 07:11 PM   #6
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Likely incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisolphaln View Post
I find it interesting that they are offering a manual transmission that is 7-years old with the brand new M3 at launch.
Given that the 335i and M3 put out exactly the same torque and have exactly the same gear rations my strong suspicion (posted this previsouly as well) is that the E92 M3 tranny is identical to the 335i MT. Our BMW insider Scott26 claimed the MT for the M3 was developed for it from the "ground up" or something to that effect. I have seen reviews state that the E92 M3 tranny is right from the E46, not sure where they got that info. from. If it came to betting I know where I would place my money. So my conclusion is that it is very likely the E92 M3 6MT is NOT 7 years old.
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      07-18-2007, 07:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Given that the 335i and M3 put out exactly the same torque and have exactly the same gear rations my strong suspicion (posted this previsouly as well) is that the E92 M3 tranny is identical to the 335i MT. Our BMW insider Scott26 claimed the MT for the M3 was developed for it from the "ground up" or something to that effect. I have seen reviews state that the E92 M3 tranny is right from the E46, not sure where they got that info. from. If it came to betting I know where I would place my money. So my conclusion is that it is very likely the E92 M3 6MT is NOT 7 years old.
Swamp do you know what the 335i MT tranny was derived from? Is it a brand new design? Also, I would have thought the additional 2000 or so rpms of the M3 engine would require them to beef it up somewhat although the torque is almost identical?
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      07-18-2007, 09:15 PM   #8
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Swamp do you know what the 335i MT tranny was derived from? Is it a brand new design? Also, I would have thought the additional 2000 or so rpms of the M3 engine would require them to beef it up somewhat although the torque is almost identical?
I thought I remember reading something about them saying it was NOW a "dual-mass flywheel" or dual plate. Can't quite remember the terms now.
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      07-18-2007, 09:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I thought I remember reading something about them saying it was NOW a "dual-mass flywheel" or dual plate. Can't quite remember the terms now.
"Now" referring to the M3 only, or was it modifed for both the M3 and 335? I guess this would be worth asking the dealer at some point, but I doubt they would give an accurate answer at this point...
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      07-18-2007, 09:53 PM   #10
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New M3 only.
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      07-18-2007, 09:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
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New M3 only.
Okay, thanks.
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      07-18-2007, 09:56 PM   #12
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Various

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Swamp do you know what the 335i MT tranny was derived from? Is it a brand new design? Also, I would have thought the additional 2000 or so rpms of the M3 engine would require them to beef it up somewhat although the torque is almost identical?
I do not know, just an educated guess. I don't think 7k vs. 8.4 would be a huge issue - just might push higher into the design margin. Torque is indeed the principal limiting spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I thought I remember reading something about them saying it was NOW a "dual-mass flywheel" or dual plate. Can't quite remember the terms now.
I think that is all clutch related and I highly doubt they have the same clutch and flywheel.
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      07-18-2007, 10:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I do not know, just an educated guess. I don't think 7k vs. 8.4 would be a huge issue - just might push higher into the design margin. Torque is indeed the principal limiting spec.

I think that is all clutch related and I highly doubt they have the same clutch and flywheel.
Thanks Swamp. I also doubt that they would share the same clutch design.

I think I just read the 335 did not have limited slip diff--it wasn't very clear. Do you guys know if that is indeed the case?

I am trying to figure out the differences between the drivetrains of the two cars.
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      07-18-2007, 10:20 PM   #14
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Absolutely not

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Thanks Swamp. I also doubt that they would share the same clutch design.

I think I just read the 335 did not have limited slip diff--it wasn't very clear. Do you guys know if that is indeed the case?

I am trying to figure out the differences between the drivetrains of the two cars.
No LSD stock or optional in the 335. Lot's of good back and forth about that in the 335i vs M3 debates. I posted a great video of the 335i doing a fantastic OWW (one wheel wonder) burnout coming out of a corner here some time ago. Sorry too lazy to use the boards bad search function to provide the link.
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      07-18-2007, 10:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
No LSD stock or optional in the 335. Lot's of good back and forth about that in the 335i vs M3 debates. I posted a great video of the 335i doing a fantastic OWW (one wheel wonder) burnout coming out of a corner here some time ago. Sorry too lazy to use the boards bad search function to provide the link.
That's what I thought. Can't believe they shipped the 335 without LSD. I'm pretty sure the E46 330ci had it. Anyway, thanks.
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      07-19-2007, 12:58 PM   #16
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That's what I thought. Can't believe they shipped the 335 without LSD. I'm pretty sure the E46 330ci had it. Anyway, thanks.
Apparently, according to Mike Miller in a recent Roundel, the only recent BMW with a mechanical LSD was the Z3 3.0i.
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      07-19-2007, 01:11 PM   #17
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Apparently, according to Mike Miller in a recent Roundel, the only recent BMW with a mechanical LSD was the Z3 3.0i.
Every recent M car has a mechanical LSD.

I can't stand Mike Miller BTW.
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      07-19-2007, 03:33 PM   #18
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Apparently, according to Mike Miller in a recent Roundel, the only recent BMW with a mechanical LSD was the Z3 3.0i.
That seems to be true. I just looked at the specs of the 2004 330ci, and could not see LSD.
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      07-19-2007, 03:40 PM   #19
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"Now" referring to the M3 only, or was it modifed for both the M3 and 335? I guess this would be worth asking the dealer at some point, but I doubt they would give an accurate answer at this point...
From BMW.COM on the new M3 transmission. They restructured their new M3 page.

"A redesigned, more lightweight, ventilated cluth makes for improved heat dissipation."
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      07-19-2007, 03:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
From BMW.COM on the new M3 transmission. They restructured their new M3 page.

"A redesigned, more lightweight, ventilated cluth makes for improved heat dissipation."
That's the new "double clutch" (is it really called so?) featured with the MT. Has nothing to do with the new DCT!

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      07-19-2007, 03:49 PM   #21
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Throttling performance

Quote:
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That's what I thought. Can't believe they shipped the 335 without LSD. I'm pretty sure the E46 330ci had it. Anyway, thanks.
This is not only a way to save cost but also to throttle the performance back compared to other vehicles in their line up. Although they do not have to be so concerned about E46 M3 vs. 335i on quite a few tighter tracks a LSD would likely put the 335i ahead of the E46 M3. Porsche clearly left the LSD off of the Cayman S to prevent it from spanking much more expensive 911's.
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      07-19-2007, 04:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
This is not only a way to save cost but also to throttle the performance back compared to other vehicles in their line up. Although they do not have to be so concerned about E46 M3 vs. 335i on quite a few tighter tracks a LSD would likely put the 335i ahead of the E46 M3. Porsche clearly left the LSD off of the Cayman S to prevent it from spanking much more expensive 911's.
Agreed about managing product lines. Not so sure if cost has much to do with it though. It really doesn't add that much. My '93 Miata had it. Current Miata's offer it as an option for less than $500. I know the 335 has more torque, therefore a 335 LSD would cost more, but still. The aftermarket ones seem to sell for ~$3k, which means BMW could put one in for a difference of about $1k or so. At least as an option. Anyway, I'm going off topic here obviously...
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