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      04-29-2012, 10:02 PM   #1
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NT01/R888/PSC Street Mileage?

I'm debating between getting a second set of wheels/tires for the track or putting a mild r comp like the three I mentioned and leaving them on street and track. I've driven these tires on track and know what kind of life to expect there, but how bad will street mileage be compared to a extreme perfomance street tire?

Frankly the PS2's get eaten up so quick at the track that it might be a wash mileage-wise depending on how much tracking I do. I have a second car for driving in crappy weather or long road trips etc., so I wouldn't necessarily drive a ton of street miles if I had r comps on there.

Experiences?
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      04-30-2012, 06:06 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
I'm debating between getting a second set of wheels/tires for the track or putting a mild r comp like the three I mentioned and leaving them on street and track. I've driven these tires on track and know what kind of life to expect there, but how bad will street mileage be compared to a extreme perfomance street tire?

Frankly the PS2's get eaten up so quick at the track that it might be a wash mileage-wise depending on how much tracking I do. I have a second car for driving in crappy weather or long road trips etc., so I wouldn't necessarily drive a ton of street miles if I had r comps on there.

Experiences?
NT01 are pretty crapy for street use. They absolutely suck in the wet and are harsh and noisy.

My set-up:
DD and wet track: 255/35 275/35 PSS on 19" OEM 220M
Dry track: 275/35 square NT01 on 18"x10" Enkei NT03

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-30-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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      04-30-2012, 09:06 AM   #3
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Yeah I know there will be some draw backs, I just mainly wonder about the mileage on the street. I know sport cups aren't that bad ride/noise from riding in some 997 GT3s on the street, and the NT01s won't fit my 19's anyway. Dunno about water resistance, my guess is they aren't so good.
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      04-30-2012, 11:28 AM   #4
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Yeah I know there will be some draw backs, I just mainly wonder about the mileage on the street. I know sport cups aren't that bad ride/noise from riding in some 997 GT3s on the street, and the NT01s won't fit my 19's anyway. Dunno about water resistance, my guess is they aren't so good.
Back in the days when I used to track a VW GTI, I was using the Toyo RA1. I also used the tire for DD. The wear was pretty reasonable. I could do 15-18 track days plus about 12000km of street driving. If I am not mistaken, the Nitto NT01 uses the same or a very similar rubber compound than the Toyo RA1. So the wear should be reasonable on the NT01. Also the NT01 do not seem to be too sensitive to heat cycling, important to consider if you want to use them on the street.
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      04-30-2012, 11:36 AM   #5
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I think the RA1's might be a better choice. I think they come with a deeper tread pattern new than the NT01. I'm not sure why people don't like them in the wet, they're a great wet tire. They're not a good puddle tire, but a good wet tire.

PSC's are decent on the street, but really expensive compared to the Toyo/Nitto. PSC's are pretty hard to get up to temp too, but I think they'd offer the most grip at temp. They also need a ton of negative camber to keep the sidewalls from wearing...I recall 5 degrees...it's on Michelin's website.

R888's are pretty sensitive to heat cycling and they're noisey and harsh especially after a track day or two.

My vote would be RA1's if you can find them in your size.
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      04-30-2012, 11:36 AM   #6
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Thanks, that's the feedback I was looking for. I wouldn't expect that kind of mileage and track life out of the tires on a 420hp 3600lb M3, but obviously the overall life of the tires wouldn't decrease much-my PS2's basically melted in 2 hard track days so the extra street life doesn't do so much for me.

I may go for R888 if I do the dual purpose tire route, the NT01 would be my pick but they don't make 19's. And PSC's are more expensive.
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      04-30-2012, 11:38 AM   #7
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Here's how I rate NT01/R888/PSC, it's all my personal experience though:

- Streets (overall)
PSC > R888 > NT01

- Track, dry
NT01 > R888 = PSC

- Track, wet
PSC > R888 > NT01

- handling, tire feedback, fun
NT01 > PSC > R888

- Longevity of track use
R888 > PSC > NT01

- Size availability
R888 > NT01 > PSC
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      04-30-2012, 11:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
I think the RA1's might be a better choice. I think they come with a deeper tread pattern new than the NT01. I'm not sure why people don't like them in the wet, they're a great wet tire. They're not a good puddle tire, but a good wet tire.

PSC's are decent on the street, but really expensive compared to the Toyo/Nitto. PSC's are pretty hard to get up to temp too, but I think they'd offer the most grip at temp. They also need a ton of negative camber to keep the sidewalls from wearing...I recall 5 degrees...it's on Michelin's website.

R888's are pretty sensitive to heat cycling and they're noisey and harsh especially after a track day or two.

My vote would be RA1's if you can find them in your size.
Interesting, I didn't even know they still made the RA1, I never see them at the track anymore. I ran those on a different car and really liked the combination of grip and breakaway characteristics. I felt like the RA1's had as progessive breakaway as street tires but significantly more grip. I just switched to slicks shortly after and haven't been r comp shopping in awhile.

I'll check out sizes, I bet my oem 19s are going to screw me with tire selection.
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      04-30-2012, 11:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd15 View Post
Here's how I rate NT01/R888/PSC, it's all my personal experience though:

- Streets (overall)
PSC > R888 > NT01

- Track, dry
NT01 > R888 = PSC

- Track, wet
PSC > R888 > NT01

- handling, tire feedback, fun
NT01 > PSC > R888

- Longevity of track use
R888 > PSC > NT01

- Size availability
R888 > NT01 > PSC
Awesome, that's a lot of useful feedback. Would you mind clarifying why the R888 loses out in "handling, feedback, fun"? Otherwise it looks like the winner since they actually make it in 275/19.
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      04-30-2012, 11:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
I think the RA1's might be a better choice. I think they come with a deeper tread pattern new than the NT01. I'm not sure why people don't like them in the wet, they're a great wet tire. They're not a good puddle tire, but a good wet tire.

PSC's are decent on the street, but really expensive compared to the Toyo/Nitto. PSC's are pretty hard to get up to temp too, but I think they'd offer the most grip at temp. They also need a ton of negative camber to keep the sidewalls from wearing...I recall 5 degrees...it's on Michelin's website.

R888's are pretty sensitive to heat cycling and they're noisey and harsh especially after a track day or two.

My vote would be RA1's if you can find them in your size.
If I remember what I read correctly, the NT01 is sort of a RA1 for heavier cars. Stiffer structure and bigger thread block to handle the weight but with the same rubber compound. The RA1 struggle a bit on heavy porks like our M3s .
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      04-30-2012, 11:50 AM   #11
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Looking at the sizes I'd either have to run 295/265 or 265/265. Think I could make 295/265 work on OEM 19's?
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      04-30-2012, 11:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Awesome, that's a lot of useful feedback. Would you mind clarifying why the R888 loses out in "handling, feedback, fun"? Otherwise it looks like the winner since they actually make it in 275/19.
When R888 gets understeer or oversteer, I think it comes a bit brutal and less smooth than other 2 tires have mentioned above.

The feedback of high speed cornering part isn't as clear as NT01. Even it's still grip at certain high speed, but the tire doesn't really tell me how far I can push. I have to try a bit more in a time. PSC is similar at this part as well.
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      04-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Interesting, I didn't even know they still made the RA1, I never see them at the track anymore. I ran those on a different car and really liked the combination of grip and breakaway characteristics. I felt like the RA1's had as progessive breakaway as street tires but significantly more grip. I just switched to slicks shortly after and haven't been r comp shopping in awhile.

I'll check out sizes, I bet my oem 19s are going to screw me with tire selection.
The RA1 were discontinued when the R888 was introduced. The R888 was to replace the RA1. However so many people complained and disliked the R888 that Toyo decided to remarket the RA1. Usually at the track I see the ligther cars use the RA1 and the heavier cars on the NT01.
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      04-30-2012, 12:22 PM   #14
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I suppose it depends on your goals...OP's talking about driving these to and from the track. We all agree that the RA1/NT01 compound is good because it takes heat cycle abuse and we all agree NT01's doing work well in the rain. The RA1 full tread is a popular tire choice for wet.

The RA1 has some history of blistering and chunking at full tread on dry tracks...probably worse with a 3800 lb chassis to carry with little help from alignment.
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      04-30-2012, 01:53 PM   #15
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Ever considered Corsas? They wear a bit quickly but seem to be a well-balanced tire based on the reviews I have seen. Not cheap but another option.
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      04-30-2012, 02:17 PM   #16
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Ever considered Corsas? They wear a bit quickly but seem to be a well-balanced tire based on the reviews I have seen. Not cheap but another option.
A quick tirerack search revealed prices of $550-650 per tire depending on size, definitely not plunking that down on tires that are only going to last a few track days a few thousand miles.

I was leaning toward R888 but I know 295/265 will really be a stretch (literally) on OEM 19's. I guess I could run 265/235 or 265 square, but I'd hate to downsize up front. I've ran stretched tires before and it is pretty obvious that handling suffers. It's a shame they don't make the R888 in more 19 sizes, but can't complain since the other mfgs don't even make 19's.
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      04-30-2012, 03:01 PM   #17
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http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/pr...petition-tires

Are you talking 18" for the 235/265?

A 295 is best on a 10.5" rim, 265 is best on a 9.5" rim. There's no stretching, the opposite actually. You certainly don't want to bulge a R888 or you'll get the "groove of doom"!

Might want to consider the

I run mine like this:

17x9.5 255/40
17x8 235/40

The fronts I run -3.3 camber, rear -1.8

This is all on my Mcoupe
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      04-30-2012, 03:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/pr...petition-tires

Are you talking 18" for the 235/265?

A 295 is best on a 10.5" rim, 265 is best on a 9.5" rim. There's no stretching, the opposite actually. You certainly don't want to bulge a R888 or you'll get the "groove of doom"!

Might want to consider the

I run mine like this:

17x9.5 255/40
17x8 235/40

The fronts I run -3.3 camber, rear -1.8

This is all on my Mcoupe
No I'm talking about the OEM 19x9.5 and 19x8.5 rims. So 265 would be very bulged/stretched on the front and 295 would be very bulged on the rear. I could run 235/265 but that's pretty lame since the stock size is already too small up front and the rear could use some more tire to put the power down coming out of corners. I'm running -1.5 front -2.0 rear camber, even toe up front, rest of the settings stock.
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      04-30-2012, 03:39 PM   #19
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No I'm talking about the OEM 19x9.5 and 19x8.5 rims. So 265 would be very bulged/stretched on the front and 295 would be very bulged on the rear. I could run 235/265 but that's pretty lame since the stock size is already too small up front and the rear could use some more tire to put the power down coming out of corners. I'm running -1.5 front -2.0 rear camber, even toe up front, rest of the settings stock.
You need to increase that front camber, otherwise you'll wear out the outside edges of your front tires pretty fast...
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      04-30-2012, 03:44 PM   #20
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You need to increase that front camber, otherwise you'll wear out the outside edges of your front tires pretty fast...
Yeah I would like to but that's the max with factory suspension and the pins pulled in my case. Plus -3 or whatever is ideal on these cars is not going to be friendly for highway mileage. Are there camber plates that can be installed without changing toe significantly? I don't really want to pay another alignment shop $150 since the rear is good already.

FWIW I am pleased it could even get that in stock form, my damn cayman could only muster like -.6, embarrassing.
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      04-30-2012, 03:49 PM   #21
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Yeah I would like to but that's the max with factory suspension and the pins pulled in my case. Plus -3 or whatever is ideal on these cars is not going to be friendly for highway mileage. Are there camber plates that can be installed without changing toe significantly? I don't really want to pay another alignment shop $150 since the rear is good already.

FWIW I am pleased it could even get that in stock form, my damn cayman could only muster like -.6, embarrassing.
Ground Control camber plates are great:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=886/CA=165

However, you will not be able to install them without going through an alignment .
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      04-30-2012, 03:53 PM   #22
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The Dinan fixed plates might work for my purpose, that would put me at -2.2 or so. And may be able to get away with installing them myself since they're fixed anyway.
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