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      04-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #155
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Just went to dealership for the oil change and verified my integration is E89X-11-09-506 and DME software version is 231E.

I guess they updated everything when I complained about I-Drive being slow a few months ago...
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      04-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #156
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Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this thread but I assume new 2012 M3's are delivered with the 231E software. What is the cutoff going backwards of cars delivered with this software upgrade?
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      04-30-2012, 02:05 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNate View Post
Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this thread but I assume new 2012 M3's are delivered with the 231E software. What is the cutoff going backwards of cars delivered with this software upgrade?
Yeah, new 2012's likely have 231E. Anything after 8/11 should have 231E. No point in upgrading to it unless you're on something super old.

Edit: After further research, it appears that 2011 cars may come with ISTA/P 2.44 or .43, and possibly have 220E software.

Here are the integration levels:
2.46.1 and 2.46.2 are E89-12-03-502.
2.46.0 is E89-12-03-500
2.45.X is E89-11-09-506
2.44.X is E89x-11-09-505
2.43.1 and .2 is E89x-11-09-503
2.43.0 is E89-11-09-501
2.42.X is E89x-11-03-511

I suspect that 231E was introduced around 2.45. I just checked my car and it has 220E.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 05-12-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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      04-30-2012, 06:26 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Yeah, new 2012's likely have 231E. Anything after 8/11 should have 231E. No point in upgrading to it unless you're on something super old.

Here are the integration levels:
2.46.1 and 2.46.2 are E89-12-03-502.
2.46.0 is E89-12-03-500
2.45.X is E89-11-09-506
2.44.X is E89x-11-09-505
2.43.1 and .2 is E89x-11-09-503
2.43.0 is E89-11-09-501
2.42.X is E89x-11-03-511

I suspect that 231E was introduced around 2.45. I just checked my car and it has 220E.

Have been updating a few cars lately... Those of you that want to flash the DME, I can update it in about 10 or 15 minutes. Can also do it remotely.
Thank you. That was just what I was looking for. I have a 05/11 build. I'm going in for service shortly, I'll inquire.
Very much appreciated.
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      04-30-2012, 12:40 PM   #159
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[quote=Mike Benvo;11842816]100E and 80E are extremely old software versions and the majority of cars will not have these versions unless they havent taken a trip to the dealer. There was a mandatory programming procedure for ISTA/P 2.40 which has newer software than 80E/100E ]

Mike, Are you saying that BMW must update my software upon my request ? I have a 2008 manual, and I asked them to re-flash the software last summer. They said they would not do it because it could smoke a module or two. Let me know if I should take it back to them.
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      04-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #160
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[quote=WOT;11863767]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
100E and 80E are extremely old software versions and the majority of cars will not have these versions unless they havent taken a trip to the dealer. There was a mandatory programming procedure for ISTA/P 2.40 which has newer software than 80E/100E ]

Mike, Are you saying that BMW must update my software upon my request ? I have a 2008 manual, and I asked them to re-flash the software last summer. They said they would not do it because it could smoke a module or two. Let me know if I should take it back to them.
The dealer will likely not update your software. Back in the day before I had all of the factory tools, I tried to pay the dealer to update mine but they refused.

Dealers will always be hesitant to perform the flash upgrades because it's very time consuming and BMW doesn't pay them well for it. I can update the DME software fairly easily remotely if the dealer doesn't want to do it on your car.

I have had dealers contact me in the past to revive modules that get injured during programming. Most of the time I've been able to get them back on-line without issue. This "crashing" during the programming was much more prevalent in older versions of BMW Dealer tools (SSS/Progman), and the new tools (ISTA/P and ISTA/D seem much more reliable). I flashed THE TECH's car a few days ago with ISTA/P 2.46.1. Took a couple hours and it updated his navigation system to the latest version as well. Life is good.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 11-09-2012 at 01:45 AM.
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      04-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #161
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Hi Mike,

How would this be done remotely. I'm interested, but unsure if I have OOD software. I do have a late model 08.
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      04-30-2012, 01:41 PM   #162
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Hi Mike,

How would this be done remotely. I'm interested, but unsure if I have OOD software. I do have a late model 08.
Can't discuss pricing here as it's not a vendor section. Please pm or email me.

Thanks
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      04-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
The dealer will likely not update your software. Back in the day before I had all of the factory tools, I tried to pay the dealer to update mine but they refused.

The only way that it will get updated is if you take it to the dealer and you have an older version. Dealers will always be hesitant to perform the flash upgrades because it's very time consuming and BMW doesn't pay them well for it. I can update the DME software fairly easily remotely if the dealer doesn't want to do it on your car.

I have had dealers contact me in the past to revive modules that get injured during programming. Most of the time I've been able to get them back on-line without issue. This "crashing" during the programming was much more prevalent in older versions of BMW Dealer tools (SSS/Progman), and the new tools (ISTA/P and ISTA/D seem much more reliable). I flashed THE TECH's car a few days ago with ISTA/P 2.46.1. Took a couple hours and it updated his navigation system to the latest version as well. Life is good.
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      04-30-2012, 01:58 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOT
Mike, Are you saying that BMW must update my software upon my request ? I have a 2008 manual, and I asked them to re-flash the software last summer. They said they would not do it because it could smoke a module or two. Let me know if I should take it back to them.
Dealerships would be more than happy to update you, but the cost for this isn't under your maintenance agreement. This means you will be charged for the update.

Unless there is a specific recall/campaign that calls for updating the modules - you'll have to foot the bill. For those with custom programming or profile changes (ie: DVDinMotion, or other convenience mods), these will likely be wiped out depending on the target of the update.
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      04-30-2012, 02:49 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Dealerships would be more than happy to update you, but the cost for this isn't under your maintenance agreement. This means you will be charged for the update.

Unless there is a specific recall/campaign that calls for updating the modules - you'll have to foot the bill. For those with custom programming or profile changes (ie: DVDinMotion, or other convenience mods), these will likely be wiped out depending on the target of the update.
I disagree that they are "more than happy" to update you. Charging five hours labor and telling you that the cost is on you for failed modules doesn't seem too 'happy' to me. I wouldn't take that on provided they can say "Oh sorry, you're out of luck, a module crashed - Oh and by the way, you owe us $400 for the program".

Those of you with coding changes may lose features if you had them previously coded. Those of you getting an update from me will not lose any features.

In programming THE TECH's car yesterday, only the CAS and Navigation were updated from v45.1 to v46.1, so there was minimal loss of features. Just coded his car again after the update for windows up with key, internet access and BMW live, and sent him on his way
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      04-30-2012, 03:01 PM   #166
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I disagree that they are "more than happy" to update you. Charging five hours labor and telling you that the cost is on you for failed modules doesn't seem too 'happy' to me. I wouldn't take that on provided they can say "Oh sorry, you're out of luck, a module crashed - Oh and by the way, you owe us $400 for the program".

Those of you with coding changes may lose features if you had them previously coded. Those of you getting an update from me will not lose any features.

In programming THE TECH's car yesterday, only the CAS and Navigation were updated from v45.1 to v46.1, so there was minimal loss of features. Just coded his car again after the update for windows up with key, internet access and BMW live, and sent him on his way
If proper flashing procedures are followed (steady power supply, experienced technicians, etc) module failure is a rarity. If the dealer is charging 5 hours for reflashing, yes - they are happy to do this as its more revenue for the dealership.

It simply depends on the dealer. Let's not turn this into a sales thread.
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      04-30-2012, 03:12 PM   #167
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Quote:
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If proper flashing procedures are followed (steady power supply, experienced technicians, etc) module failure is a rarity. If the dealer is charging 5 hours for reflashing, yes - they are happy to do this as its more revenue for the dealership.

It simply depends on the dealer. Let's not turn this into a sales thread.
Not sure how you can say that considering the dealer wouldn't update my car when I told them I would pay for it awhile back.

It has nothing to do with experienced technicians. A battery stabilizer is always hooked up to the car as the process will stop (or not begin) if it's not, and the software will tell the technician to apply a charger to maintain the correct voltage. The software must see a voltage between 13.0 minimum and 15.2 maximum. I have the EXACT same system used at the dealer, aside from the expert tools and other goodies, so I'm pretty experienced with them. The dealer system is as 'dumb' as your autologic, there isn't much room for failure. A monkey can click next and program - these aren't expert tools. It either works successfully or it doesn't. The in-between is where there are potential issues. This is where 'expert' tools come into the picture.

If paying $400 to $500 with the propensity of a failure being on you is satisfactory to the customer, then so be it. To me, I wouldn't even attempt if they made a comment that it would be my responsibility to cover further labor and potentially parts in the event that something goes awry.

The dealer is told by BMW not to update cars unless there is a TSB or something that would otherwise require such programming. I agree with you that it's rare, but I've seen it happen multiple times.
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      04-30-2012, 03:38 PM   #168
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Can't discuss pricing here as it's not a vendor section. Please pm or email me.

Thanks
email sent
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      04-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Silence View Post
email sent
Thanks, give me a couple days to get back to you..

I should have some time on Wednesday to answer PMs/Emails if not before.

And just to show you guys how the software level is displayed in the actual DME code, I have attached a screenshot below. Ignore the red area and the FF's as I blanked out a customers VIN number there. The software level and corresponding hex code is circled.
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      04-30-2012, 07:53 PM   #170
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Can someone explain what is so different about the new software than the older versions? How does it yield more power? Why wouldn't BMW have used this configuration from the beginning?
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      04-30-2012, 08:14 PM   #171
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Can someone explain what is so different about the new software than the older versions? How does it yield more power? Why wouldn't BMW have used this configuration from the beginning?
SW releases are not all about power.

Its similar to computer software. Various bug fixes and revisions (even emissions updates) are included with each release, as well as other items that are indirectly related to engine performance.

All we can report is what we actually see on the dyno.

Quote:
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Not sure how you can say that considering the dealer wouldn't update my car when I told them I would pay for it awhile back.

It has nothing to do with experienced technicians. A battery stabilizer is always hooked up to the car as the process will stop (or not begin) if it's not, and the software will tell the technician to apply a charger to maintain the correct voltage. The software must see a voltage between 13.0 minimum and 15.2 maximum. I have the EXACT same system used at the dealer, aside from the expert tools and other goodies, so I'm pretty experienced with them. The dealer system is as 'dumb' as your autologic, there isn't much room for failure. A monkey can click next and program - these aren't expert tools. It either works successfully or it doesn't. The in-between is where there are potential issues. This is where 'expert' tools come into the picture.

If paying $400 to $500 with the propensity of a failure being on you is satisfactory to the customer, then so be it. To me, I wouldn't even attempt if they made a comment that it would be my responsibility to cover further labor and potentially parts in the event that something goes awry.

The dealer is told by BMW not to update cars unless there is a TSB or something that would otherwise require such programming. I agree with you that it's rare, but I've seen it happen multiple times.
Paranoia isn't intended to be the primary motive here - this is of no benefit to the end user. Can you show some respect to the OP and keep the thread related to his experience?
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      04-30-2012, 09:09 PM   #172
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This is interesting as well are the explanations. I am still perplexed as to the changes in the DME code to have a decent increase in power. We can start with the basics; Fuel, Spark and Air.

I can see all three areas being influenced to gain power from OEM code to the tuners. If the tuners use the base code and only manipulate targets, things can be off if the base readings are incorrect. I cannot be sure of which, but I suspect one or more of the sensors inputs have been rescaled with the later OEM code.

If the Lambda sensors are off, and the A/F measurements, a recal with new code could certainly introduce new found power.

If the knock sensors were overly sensitive, timing could be pulled 1 - 2 degrees, with all else being equal, can equate to a 20 HP dlta.

And the last area is air. If the mass airflow calculations are off, targets are harder to reach. However, this is not a controlled item such as spark and fuel and less likely to be the source of error. That said, VANOS control will alter air flow but not the measured value unless it is non-linear.

I suppose my question is if the tuners are simply changing targets for the VANOS, fuel and timing, etc. what do they see as the variable(s) for the power delats with old and new OEM code?

Regardless, I am glad to see they have the ability to recode using a newer base.
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      04-30-2012, 10:04 PM   #173
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Paranoia isn't intended to be the primary motive here - this is of no benefit to the end user. Can you show some respect to the OP and keep the thread related to his experience?
Sorry Tom did I say something wrong here?

There were some inquiries on updating the car and I have tried to help explain some details of this to those on the forum.

I did tell the OP Nice Gains on the first or second page of this thread, and I don't mean to disrespect him. Thought I was giving people factual information.

I'd love to go into the code and check knock sensitivity between the files because the post above is an accurate account of changes that likely could have been modified between software versions. But I won't post anything further since you think having a logical discussion about 231E Software and the updating process (which is the title of this thread) is disrespecting the OP.
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      05-01-2012, 12:39 PM   #174
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All are missing the point of this software update.

Air mass fuel ignition targets are the same. Coming from someone who struggled with this same problem it was an intricate fix that alot of us had problems with as we did not want to update to the old tunerlock software before flash tools got around it.

To those on old software with low power: Try replacing your spark plugs on the same software version. Depending how bad they were here is your 20hp. Dyno tested.

Logging before and after Ignition targets show no knock activity and no negative adaptive values but sporadic low total timing targets and with plugs older then 15k on my car. New plugs almost gained 3 to 4 ignition degrees.

The new software version addresses the issues in where plug wear no longer offset low power. Less sensitive DME intervention with the ionic knock sensing plugs.
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      05-01-2012, 12:58 PM   #175
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All are missing the point of this software update.

Air mass fuel ignition targets are the same. Coming from someone who struggled with this same problem it was an intricate fix that alot of us had problems with as we did not want to update to the old tunerlock software before flash tools got around it.

To those on old software with low power: Try replacing your spark plugs on the same software version. Depending how bad they were here is your 20hp. Dyno tested.

Logging before and after Ignition targets show no knock activity and no negative adaptive values but sporadic low total timing targets and with plugs older then 15k on my car. New plugs almost gained 3 to 4 ignition degrees.

The new software version addresses the issues in where plug wear no longer offset low power. Less sensitive DME intervention with the ionic knock sensing plugs.
Couldn't agree more, I said this back in post 39: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=39

Baseline dyno is required, otherwise it's a guessing game. On higher mileage M3s, plugs should be checked and/or replaced. O2s should be checked/logged as well, especially for those that have had multiple X-pipe swaps.

For those that have purchased their M3s used, we (or your local dealer) could provide maintenance history to see what specific work the dealership has performed in the past to limit variables in troubleshooting.
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      05-01-2012, 01:52 PM   #176
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Quote:
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All are missing the point of this software update.

Air mass fuel ignition targets are the same. Coming from someone who struggled with this same problem it was an intricate fix that alot of us had problems with as we did not want to update to the old tunerlock software before flash tools got around it.

To those on old software with low power: Try replacing your spark plugs on the same software version. Depending how bad they were here is your 20hp. Dyno tested.

Logging before and after Ignition targets show no knock activity and no negative adaptive values but sporadic low total timing targets and with plugs older then 15k on my car. New plugs almost gained 3 to 4 ignition degrees.

The new software version addresses the issues in where plug wear no longer offset low power. Less sensitive DME intervention with the ionic knock sensing plugs.
Thanks very much for the detailed info!
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