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      04-15-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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Most tuners only adjust feulling because the computer already compensates for the rest. Aftermarket air intake and exausts changes your mixtures therefore fuelling. Tuners normally do not change VANOS, timing (apart from idelling), airflow heat ranges and knokking. These are very complex and this is why the BMW software makes such a difference.
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      04-15-2012, 03:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Yes, flashing to the new software will overwrite your Evolve tune. You will need to re-read the new files and send them to Sal to retune it.



Flashing to the newest, completely stock software should not void the warranty. Adding a tune may be different, not sure there.



I believe they can. Tom printed mine by logging into the dealer system. It has a nice break down of all service work, packages, options, MSRP, etc.



I'm not sure on this one. You'd need to have some sort of software related driveability issue to make them feel obligated. If you ask nicely and have a good relationship with them, it's not inconceivable for them to do it for free as a courtesy.

While this software doesn't fix any major driveability issues (AFAIK) the car does seem to run much better. It starts better, idles better, etc. That could be placebo though lol!

I have the Akra delete R.. no tune. I'm wondering if I need to remove it to have them upload new software.
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      04-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN View Post
I feel like that's kinda crap that BMW doesn't just let all M owners have the newest software for free. I would think they would want each and every M car out there to be running at its best. It's probably unlikely that every owner would even take advantage of the update but to those that would like it, why not make it free?
The software itself might just be free, actually. What's not free is the shop labor and substantial investment in equipment required to do an update on the car's software.

BMW's software across the whole vehicle has significant version dependencies, so sometimes when a dealer plugs in to update the radio software, they end up updating the whole vehicle so that everything continues to work with everything else. It can take hours.
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      04-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN
I feel like that's kinda crap that BMW doesn't just let all M owners have the newest software for free. I would think they would want each and every M car out there to be running at its best. It's probably unlikely that every owner would even take advantage of the update but to those that would like it, why not make it free?
Engineering mentality... If it isn't broken then leave it. The risk is that something else could be affected by a simple change in software.
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      04-15-2012, 05:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN View Post
I feel like that's kinda crap that BMW doesn't just let all M owners have the newest software for free. I would think they would want each and every M car out there to be running at its best. It's probably unlikely that every owner would even take advantage of the update but to those that would like it, why not make it free?
The software itself might just be free, actually. What's not free is the shop labor and substantial investment in equipment required to do an update on the car's software.

BMW's software across the whole vehicle has significant version dependencies, so sometimes when a dealer plugs in to update the radio software, they end up updating the whole vehicle so that everything continues to work with everything else. It can take hours.
Yeah very true. I guess with a customer coming in who just wants an updated tune, we would still
Be taking up a work bay which could be used for a paying customer but hey, we just threw down a bunch of money for an M! Lol but yeah I do remember how updating a car at a dealer can take quite sometime
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      04-15-2012, 05:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L4ces
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN
I feel like that's kinda crap that BMW doesn't just let all M owners have the newest software for free. I would think they would want each and every M car out there to be running at its best. It's probably unlikely that every owner would even take advantage of the update but to those that would like it, why not make it free?
Engineering mentality... If it isn't broken then leave it. The risk is that something else could be affected by a simple change in software.
That's a good call but wouldn't an update be tested through and through so as to not have any negative side effects?
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      04-15-2012, 05:21 PM   #29
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You know how it goes... You ever update a Windows PC or an app ;-).

It is just the mentality, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My SA doesn't want to perform the upgrade for the same reason. There are always bugs in software.
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      04-15-2012, 05:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
I have the Akra delete R.. no tune. I'm wondering if I need to remove it to have them upload new software.
I don't believe so. I'd be upfront with them though and let them know the situation.
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      04-15-2012, 05:46 PM   #31
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I feel the dealers are out VERY little by flashing customers' cars to the newest software for free. BMW provides the dealer the software and the dealer has to buy the tools regardless if they do the flashes or not. A tech has to do literally very little to flash a car. He can continue working on other cars while a car is flashing. It's really just a way for the dealer to charge a lot for very little. Microsoft doesn't charge you for updates once you buy their software.
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      04-15-2012, 06:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I don't believe so. I'd be upfront with them though and let them know the situation.
I don't think they would know. Since its hidden and has an external obd connection anyway. I'm just wondering if it would interfere with the uploading of the new software.
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      04-15-2012, 08:07 PM   #33
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I'm calling the dealer tomorrow to investigate. As others have said, it is just an opportunity cost to the dealer, and not even that if they don't have a line of customers. If I'm the only car there then it really is free for the dealer.
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      04-15-2012, 08:14 PM   #34
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I have a 2011 and my car was at the dealer two weeks ago for a oil change and my car got flashed with a mandatory update, i had no issues what so ever before the flash.

It would be interesting to have this verified by a couple of other cars before everyone storms off to the dealer demanding the latest software...
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      04-15-2012, 08:21 PM   #35
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Glad you were able to make normal power afterall! -kevin /white sedan there
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      04-15-2012, 08:49 PM   #36
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how old is old? I have a 09 m3(08/09 build) how would I know if the flash would benefit me?
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      04-15-2012, 11:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Glad you were able to make normal power afterall! -kevin /white sedan there
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
how old is old? I have a 09 m3(08/09 build) how would I know if the flash would benefit me?
You may not have THE oldest version but unless it's been recently updated, I think it'd be worth it to update it.
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      04-15-2012, 11:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline9001 View Post
I have a 2011 and my car was at the dealer two weeks ago for a oil change and my car got flashed with a mandatory update, i had no issues what so ever before the flash.

It would be interesting to have this verified by a couple of other cars before everyone storms off to the dealer demanding the latest software...
Just a bit of anecdotal evidence but Tom immediately suggested this as the "problem" and said he had seen this before. In fact, he showed me the plots for a car that made 308 WHP (stock) with old plugs and software. It was misfiring and had failed smog (not codes though). The updated software made a huge difference (I wanna say it made 345 after updating the software but don't quote me on that).
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      04-16-2012, 12:12 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Just a bit of anecdotal evidence but Tom immediately suggested this as the "problem" and said he had seen this before. In fact, he showed me the plots for a car that made 308 WHP (stock) with old plugs and software. It was misfiring and had failed smog (not codes though). The updated software made a huge difference (I wanna say it made 345 after updating the software but don't quote me on that).
This is the answer I was looking for, as not every situation will play out the same. This shouldn't be approached as a "mod" but as a part of regular maintenance.

Let's explain things a bit:

M3PO's M3 was strapped to the dyno for Evolve software tune to perform a before/after dyno just to show approximate gains that would be as a result of flashing evolve-r software. After a few baseline runs, it appeared to be down on power for the specific mods that were installed. We really didn't even get a chance to test the new evolve software.

Thus, the troubleshooting process begins.

Since this was a 2008 model, there are a number of things to consider since miles were racking up. Spark plugs were recently changed, so we can rule those out as a possibility.

Other than running the car on the dyno some more and logging O2 activity, a VIN check was the next logical step, which showed that updates were performed shortly after purchase, or possibly not at all. A DME read showed early software (100E), which prompted for an update (231E), as we've seen considerable gains from this in the past on a number of early vehicles. After updating, M3PO's car showed normal power levels on the dyno again.

It's a good idea to keep current with updates, but dealerships will not update (for free) unless there is a considerable reason to do so. What I don't want to recommend is everyone calling their SAs and demanding updates on Monday morning - as every situation is different.

Best advice? Get a baseline dyno beforehand to eliminate the guesswork. Also, keep up on maintenance.

Brent: We'll see you on the dyno soon in the search for more power.
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      04-16-2012, 12:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
I have the Akra delete R.. no tune. I'm wondering if I need to remove it to have them upload new software.
I haven't had any issues yet with diagnostics and the delete-r yet, but it's always a good idea - just in case.
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      04-16-2012, 03:05 AM   #41
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Wow..

100E is really old software..

I always update my customers to the latest software from ISTA/P 46.2 before tuning the car. That way it's the latest and freshest from BMW and their bug fixes are incorporated. Also a good measure to update the DCT software level to match with the DME if it's not already on the latest version.

Nice gain!
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      04-16-2012, 08:38 AM   #42
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The dealer would normally void the warranty on the DME if you updated the software to an aftermarket tune.

Would they still be able to void it if you update the firmware to 231E since it's legitimately OEM software?
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      04-16-2012, 09:00 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post

A $95 flash to the newest completely OEM software version netted me 22 HP!
Imagine how fast the 2011.5+ models with newest software + electric water pump are!
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      04-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ View Post
The dealer would normally void the warranty on the DME if you updated the software to an aftermarket tune.

Would they still be able to void it if you update the firmware to 231E since it's legitimately OEM software?
Untrue. Dealer cannot void things for no reason.
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