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      04-13-2012, 11:26 PM   #1
Sleeper519
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GC camber plate success!

I had my Ground Control camber plates with the revised brackets installed today by my good friend Jeff at Gran Turismo East who has done my alignment work for the past 20 years. I was thinking of DYI this time around but did not have spring compressors or the time to do it and I wanted to get them on before VIR.

First of all, let me give props to the people at Ground Control (Donovan, et al) for their customer service. If you read my earlier thread you know that I had a lot of trouble with the plates and was not a happy camper. Although GC initially hesitated to warranty the brackets, they went out of their way to make this thing right and see that the problem was resolved in a satisfactory manner. They actually re-engineered the brackets after testing and breaking many samples in the "lab" and sent me a new set. This is a sign of a reputable company working to do the right thing and keeping a satisfied and returning client base. Impressive. And, No, I wasn't paid or coerced to say this.

Installation: Easy for them, took about an hour and a half. I watched and learned some things, so with the right tools I can install the coilovers when that time comes.

Alignment: The initial plan was to set up separate street and track settings with regard to camber and toe, and switch back and forth between events. I was hoping to set Street camber at -1.5 with 1/16" toe in, and switch to Track at -3.0 and ~1/16 or 1/8" toe out at the most. This was theoretically based on JM3's post that showed total toe change of 7mm or ~5/16" when swinging through the whole 26mm of camber arc travel on the GC plate. I was only planning on using a part of that arc (1.5 degrees) so I assumed less toe changes. However, it didn't pan out that well. Going from -1.5 to only -2.8 gave me over 1/3" toe out on each side, which was unacceptable. We talked about marking front tie rods for me to separately adjust at the track along with the camber plates to bring toe back to a reasonable # but Jeff thought it would be overly complex for my feable brain and he talked me out of that. Sooo...we compromised and set a static camber of -2.5 with 1/16"toe in. At the track I will turn the driver's side tie rod about 3/4 of a turn to a specific mark to set toe to +1/16" out and be done with it. Maybe after a couple of events we'll revisit the whole thing again.

Driving impressions: When I first drove out on the road it definitely felt different. I thought the steering felt sort of twitchy and nervous but I got used to it quickly and it didn't seem so bad. He had also jacked my tire pressure up a few pounds so that may have contributed a little. But man, the turn-in is absolutely amazing even at only -2.5!! I took it through some twisties near my house and the car felt totally planted in the turns. On a stretch of lonely highway at high speed it was extremely stable (but I recently installed the Performance spoiler, so that helped a little too) I can't wait to get back on the track at VIR in a couple of weeks!! Thank you GC. Stay tuned.
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      04-14-2012, 01:45 AM   #2
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I got mine yesterday and installed them today. I did the install myself. I was reluctant on ordering after reading your initial review but was glad to see that GC had made the necessary corrections and taken care of you. Install was a breeze, just about an hour for both. I have EDC and have added the KW sleeve kit and it fit perfectly. I also ordered the rear toe link bars and will install them next week, right before alignment and install of new wheels.
Also wanted to mention that GC was great to deal with and Jay gave me his weekend email address in case I needed any help, which I think is awesome!
I haven't driven my car yet because I am in the middle of other work on it but will update after dialing everything in.
OP thanks for the info and happy to see you got it all worked out.
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      04-14-2012, 03:26 AM   #3
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Hey sleeper! You're in atlanta too! Have we met? GTE is great! I was just up there getting some new wheels and rubber mounted. Kieran, Jeff and the crew are great!
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      04-14-2012, 07:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j2M3 View Post
I have EDC and have added the KW sleeve kit and it fit perfectly.
Question... why wouldn't you have just gotten the GC sleeve-over kit?


Also, Sleeper, do you have EDC? After reading your great review, I'm wondering if I should just go with a fixed -2.5camber plate option (Dinan), and do the set-it-and-forget-it thing. I've run camber plates on my past 3 BMWs and was always able to adjust camber with minimal toe-in/out changes.
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      04-14-2012, 08:23 AM   #5
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Congrats on the successful GC camber plate install! Glad to hear you are happy with how things turned out - GC guys are a great bunch to work with. You're definitely going to enjoy the extra front camber because it really "wakes up" the front end of our cars.

I'm actually installing a set of GC plates for 60 mm race springs today on my e92 M3. Seems like this is the GC camber plate install weekend
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      04-14-2012, 09:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Question... why wouldn't you have just gotten the GC sleeve-over kit?


Also, Sleeper, do you have EDC? After reading your great review, I'm wondering if I should just go with a fixed -2.5camber plate option (Dinan), and do the set-it-and-forget-it thing. I've run camber plates on my past 3 BMWs and was always able to adjust camber with minimal toe-in/out changes.
This is my DD and I like my EDC, didn't want to give it up right now. There are good arguments for and against the sleeve-overs. I figured I will keep this car awhile and mod it incrementally, some day pulling the trigger on a more honest track setup like coilies and just try soften up the street settings best I can...

The GC camber plates were a good bang-for-the-buck addition, and I'm sure I'll use the adjustability feature in the future so I can push the track setting to a little more extreme---have my cake and eat it too!

I forgot to mention in my OP that we increased the rear camber to -2.0 w/ a little toe in, to stay with the .5 degree stagger front to back.
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      04-14-2012, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Question... why wouldn't you have just gotten the GC sleeve-over kit?
I wasn't planning on running more than stock camber when I ordered my KW Sleeve kit. I am really happy with the KW sleeve kit, just happy everything fit nicely
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      04-14-2012, 12:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper519 View Post

Alignment: However, it didn't pan out that well. Going from -1.5 to only -2.8 gave me over 1/3" toe out on each side, which was unacceptable.
Glad it worked out for you. I wonder though if perhaps you might have the alignment facts messed up. Is it really true than 1.3 degrees of camber change gave you 0.33" of toe change per side (maybe 1/3 of one degree)? That would be 2/3" total for both sides which would be absolutely huge and is hard to imagine that would be possible for a net change of a bit over 1 degree camber per side. I've worked with much more primitive torsion bar front ends and never saw that kind of toe change with such a modest change in camber.
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      04-14-2012, 02:15 PM   #9
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I've had mine for a couple of weeks and have been happy for street driving. First track event is Friday. We also had to pick a static camber because the toe changes too much; I went with a more street friendly -2.2.

Also had great support from Jay at GC.
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      04-14-2012, 03:47 PM   #10
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I run -3.0 front -2.0 rear on street and track. If I find that the insides are wearing too much I just go to more track days or drive more aggressively on the street
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      04-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
Glad it worked out for you. I wonder though if perhaps you might have the alignment facts messed up. Is it really true than 1.3 degrees of camber change gave you 0.33" of toe change per side (maybe 1/3 of one degree)? That would be 2/3" total for both sides which would be absolutely huge and is hard to imagine that would be possible for a net change of a bit over 1 degree camber per side. I've worked with much more primitive torsion bar front ends and never saw that kind of toe change with such a modest change in camber.

No, that's really what he was getting--or at least what he was telling me. Actually we went from -1.5 to my desired -3.0, and were getting +.33 inch toe out I believe on each side, maybe total. I sure didn't expect that after seeing JM3's experience. Thus the compromise static setting of -2.5 degrees. I'd already sorta trashed the outsides of my front PS2s so I can expect to balance that wear out a little now. Plus I'll run the air pressure up a pound or two to wear better on the street.

I will definitely revisit this with him again this summer and seek a better solution because I still want the adjustability. I don't mind adjusting the tie rods on each side if need be.
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      04-15-2012, 08:55 AM   #12
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What's your next event going to be? Maybe we can get together and compare notes. I'm running -2.5 neg up front and going to leave it for now, but like you want to play with the adjustment.
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      04-15-2012, 01:25 PM   #13
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What's your next event going to be? Maybe we can get together and compare notes. I'm running -2.5 neg up front and going to leave it for now, but like you want to play with the adjustment.
I'm going to VIR May 5-6, then RA on June 5, then...
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