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      07-06-2007, 10:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Which means what? He's the "assistant editor"...Does that make him an F1 driver? It was a poorly written article and it has not swayed my decision to buy an M3 one bit.
I'm not saying it means anything. I was just answering your question as to who "Ben Barry" was.

I have absolutely no idea what being an F1 driver has to do with it. Are you saying the only valid people who can test drive new performance cars are F1 drivers? They're a little busy at the moment.

I'm pleased it hasn't swayed your decision to buy an M3, and neither should it.
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      07-06-2007, 10:32 AM   #46
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Fellas please check out the TOPGEAR review in the other thread
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      07-06-2007, 10:33 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
I'm not saying it means anything. I was just answering your question as to who "Ben Barry" was.

I have absolutely no idea what being an F1 driver has to do with it. Are you saying the only valid people who can test drive new performance cars are F1 drivers? They're a little busy at the moment.

I'm pleased it hasn't swayed your decision to buy an M3, and neither should it.
My question about Ben Barry was one of mere sarcasm, as in who the hell does Ben Barry think he is? Obviously, he's a reporter and that's his job!

And obviously I don't think F1 drivers are the only valid people who can test drive new performance cars. But back to my original question, "Who the F*** is Ben Barry?" An editor...does that make him a valid driver? And with the recent release of some of these new review articles, Ben is starting to sound a bit foolish.
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      07-06-2007, 11:48 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
An editor...does that make him a valid driver?
No, but the nice drift he performs in the "Car" video does.

So he writes something that's not quite the perfect review, and all of a sudden his opinion doesn't count.

If he'd written "the M3 is perfect" would you be saying, "yeah, but what does his opinion count for? He's just the assistant editor."
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      07-06-2007, 12:20 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
No, but the nice drift he performs in the "Car" video does.

So he writes something that's not quite the perfect review, and all of a sudden his opinion doesn't count.

If he'd written "the M3 is perfect" would you be saying, "yeah, but what does his opinion count for? He's just the assistant editor."
You're right...nice drift.

IMO, no ones opinion really makes a bit of difference to me. People say great things about EVO's....sorrry would never buy an EVO.

I'll buy the M3, drive it and if it doesn't suit me, than I'll sale it and go for something else. Sure I'll be disappointed if it doesn't live up to the "M" hype, but I guess that's the chance you take. Then I'll be saying...damn, that editor guy was right!
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      07-06-2007, 12:49 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Then I'll be saying...damn, that editor guy was right!
assistant editor

i think any review will be somewhat subjective, esp since they didnt really have the car for an extended period of time.. i'll wait for a) more information and b) until i can test drive it to make a decision one way or the other. dont forget that price will be a factor in this decision too. once you get to the $70k mark there are quite a few options. i think very few of us are willing to pay any sum just for the sake of an M3. I'm loyal to the brand (see my sig) and i've wanted the M3 for just about ever but i wont buy blindly just cos of the badge.
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      07-07-2007, 12:19 AM   #51
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Why bother

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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Why don't you send him a PM and tell him what you think of his article if you don't like what he's written. Somehow I don't think he'll give a toss.
Why don't you send him an compliment on the great article? Sending him a criticism would just be a waste of time IMO. On top of that you are almost surely right - he would not care. My question is, then, why are you defending him in numerous posts and if you know/guess he wouldn't respond/care what is your point? There is good automotive journalism and bad. When you have your facts so far out of line and pile emotionally devoid writing on top of it, combined with an opinion that is opposite to many others with credentials and credibility to write about the car you are bound to see some flak. I think my post was fair and factual and a needed response to a crap article. Seems other members here agree as well.
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      07-07-2007, 12:36 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
Longer clip now posted
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/
I'm not going to bash the guy now that I've seen the video. He seems to tell it like it is, and that's

I hope the steering isn't too light. I guess I could live with it if the trade-off is that sweet V8 sound.
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      07-07-2007, 02:08 AM   #53
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Not the review I was hoping for. I was hoping for something more inline with the top gear review.
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      07-07-2007, 05:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Why don't you send him an compliment on the great article? Sending him a criticism would just be a waste of time IMO. On top of that you are almost surely right - he would not care. My question is, then, why are you defending him in numerous posts and if you know/guess he wouldn't respond/care what is your point? There is good automotive journalism and bad. When you have your facts so far out of line and pile emotionally devoid writing on top of it, combined with an opinion that is opposite to many others with credentials and credibility to write about the car you are bound to see some flak. I think my post was fair and factual and a needed response to a crap article. Seems other members here agree as well.
I'm not defending him. I've have no reason to defend him. He's driven the car (you haven't) and given his opinion on it. Just because you don't like his opinion doesn't mean it's wrong.

He's a journalist who has to know about all different makes of cars. So he got the name of the forthcoming semi-automatic gearbox wrong. So what? Does that mean the rest of the article is rubbish? And seeing as the gearbox hasn't even been launched yet, is it such a crime to call it SMG? Remember he is writing for a wide and general audience, so referring to 'M DCT' would just confuse many of the readers. Not everybody frequents internet forums like this.

Ask yourself this. If he'd made the same small mistakes yet written a fantastic report would you be saying "I'm just going to ignore this article"?

I want the E92 M3 to be good just like everybody else, and I'm sure it will be great, but it annoys me when there are people commenting on stuff when they are in no position to comment.
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      07-07-2007, 06:18 PM   #55
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Cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
I'm not defending him. I've have no reason to defend him. He's driven the car (you haven't) and given his opinion on it. Just because you don't like his opinion doesn't mean it's wrong.

He's a journalist who has to know about all different makes of cars. So he got the name of the forthcoming semi-automatic gearbox wrong. So what? Does that mean the rest of the article is rubbish? And seeing as the gearbox hasn't even been launched yet, is it such a crime to call it SMG? Remember he is writing for a wide and general audience, so referring to 'M DCT' would just confuse many of the readers. Not everybody frequents internet forums like this.

Ask yourself this. If he'd made the same small mistakes yet written a fantastic report would you be saying "I'm just going to ignore this article"?

I want the E92 M3 to be good just like everybody else, and I'm sure it will be great, but it annoys me when there are people commenting on stuff when they are in no position to comment.
OK play the "you haven't driven the car card". Irrelevant. For all practical purposes NONE of us have. Furthermore we have conflicting expert testimonies here. I am just as qualified to be a fact checker and subscriber of logic and anyone else. Sorry that "annoys you".

Sure if the article had a glowing review, filled with positive emotion I would be less prone to critique the article. It takes a REALLY special (strange) person to criticize a poorly written piece that is perfectly in line with their personal thoughts or what they want to read. However, I'd still call him on poor facts. That is just my style.

There were more errors in the article than misnaming a tranny and no I don't need to have driven the car to be a good fact checker (or on points still open for debate - I only need to be a person who brings some logic/common sense to the table). And yes he should have used the right name for the tranny and explained the difference if he felt his audience would not understand. There is a world of differnce between SMG and DCT and there are enough who dislike SMG that it was either really ignorant or really bad judgement to call a DCT an SMG.

If you have to call sides I am critical and you are defending, fairly simple. My motivations are clear, bad facts, poor writing, no emotion and a conclusion I don't want to hear, again what is your motivation?
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      07-09-2007, 06:46 AM   #56
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Why read reviews and dismiss anything that is negative as rubbish and sucker all that is good as gospel? The reviews state the new M3 is a bloody great car, but has it faults - it's not a GT3, but then again isn't £100000. It will be a great useable supercar, which isn't perhaps quite as good as was hoped for in some areas - this doesn't make it bad, it just broadens it's appeal so it fits into the 'great' category for many people. i.e. lots of people buy it, instead of a focused few.
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      07-09-2007, 07:42 AM   #57
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Last time I checked, a whole lot of people bought the old M3, most far from being enthusiast driver, why dumb down even more and risk loosing the real M-heads?
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      07-09-2007, 01:15 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
Last time I checked, a whole lot of people bought the old M3, most far from being enthusiast driver, why dumb down even more and risk loosing the real M-heads?
Why do you insist on trolling? We get it. You bought an RS4. Great car.
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      07-09-2007, 02:22 PM   #59
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I ain't trolling, I don't like the RS4 and I had the E46 before.
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      07-13-2007, 09:14 AM   #60
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Always interesting to see threads like this as a journalist. Few points then it's over and out from me:

1. Here's an email I got from the PR at Michelin regarding the tyres…
Hi Ben,

It was good to see you yesterday - I hope you managed to get everything done for your group test.

I just wanted to give you a bit more information on the tyres which wasn't included in the press kit:

The Pilot Sport PS2 tyres designed for the new M3 feature three different compounds. The front tyre has a carbon-black outer and a hybrid inner (carbon-black and silica) tread area, and the rear has a carbon black outer and a pure silica inner tread area. The carbon-black areas provide abrasion resistance and reduce the shoulder wear associated with hard driving and the pure silica area offers excellent grip in damp amd wet conditions.

The hybrid compound on the front tyres helps induce mild understeer in extreme conditions and acts as a safety net to avoid sudden oversteer.

I don't know if this is of interest but you may have felt it when you were drifting around the track.

All the best

Paul




Paul Cordle
PR Manager

2. Yes, I called it SMG, but it's what more people understand so I stuck with this. Apologies for any offence.

3. Who do I think I am? Journalist of seven years, big M3 enthusiast with E36 M3 (
). It's done 207,000 miles and I've owned it for six years. Also had an E36 four door M3 before that. I have driven every generation of the M3, including E30 Sport Evo and M3 CSL.

4. Gerhard Richter (M Division boss) told me personally that the gearbox was straight out of the E46 when I did an article on the M Division in our June issue. He said it might have had some minor changes, but even he wasn't sure exactly what. It feels the same.

5. The ride is very comfortable, but the turn in isn't as sharp as the old car. I am absolutely certain of this.

6. Sound is awesome, but not as edgy as old car - the step to a metallic rasp isn't as dramatic or spine tingling as it was. Fantastic engine though.

Thanks
Ben Barry
Assistant editor, CAR Magazine
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      07-13-2007, 10:15 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Barry View Post
Always interesting to see threads like this as a journalist. Few points then it's over and out from me:
Wow, you've made the purpose of an discussion board your own!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Barry View Post
1. Here's an email I got from the PR at Michelin regarding the tyres…
Hi Ben,

It was good to see you yesterday - I hope you managed to get everything done for your group test.

I just wanted to give you a bit more information on the tyres which wasn't included in the press kit:

The Pilot Sport PS2 tyres designed for the new M3 feature three different compounds. The front tyre has a carbon-black outer and a hybrid inner (carbon-black and silica) tread area, and the rear has a carbon black outer and a pure silica inner tread area. The carbon-black areas provide abrasion resistance and reduce the shoulder wear associated with hard driving and the pure silica area offers excellent grip in damp amd wet conditions.

The hybrid compound on the front tyres helps induce mild understeer in extreme conditions and acts as a safety net to avoid sudden oversteer.

I don't know if this is of interest but you may have felt it when you were drifting around the track.

All the best

Paul




Paul Cordle
PR Manager
Thanks for sharing that. I think it's needless to ask if you already had the feeling of little understeering before you received that mail, isn't it? Sure you had!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Barry View Post
2. Yes, I called it SMG, but it's what more people understand so I stuck with this. Apologies for any offence.

3. Who do I think I am? Journalist of seven years, big M3 enthusiast with E36 M3 (
). It's done 207,000 miles and I've owned it for six years. Also had an E36 four door M3 before that. I have driven every generation of the M3, including E30 Sport Evo and M3 CSL.

4. Gerhard Richter (M Division boss) told me personally that the gearbox was straight out of the E46 when I did an article on the M Division in our June issue. He said it might have had some minor changes, but even he wasn't sure exactly what. It feels the same.

5. The ride is very comfortable, but the turn in isn't as sharp as the old car. I am absolutely certain of this.

6. Sound is awesome, but not as edgy as old car - the step to a metallic rasp isn't as dramatic or spine tingling as it was. Fantastic engine though.

Thanks
Ben Barry
Assistant editor, CAR Magazine
Some further notes:
Most german reviews so far are telling that the car is just as sharp as the old model was. Do you think other journalists are not certain of what they're telling?

I'm afraid Car Magazine did want to arouse big publicity for their very own M3 article. It's sadly not the first time happening at Car Magazine (check the "official" pics CAR had in their Feb issue).

Best regards, south

Last edited by southlight; 07-13-2007 at 10:42 AM.
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      07-13-2007, 10:46 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I'm afraid Car Magazine did want to arouse big publicity for their very own M3 article. It's sadly not the first time happening at Car Magazine (check the "official" pics CAR had in their Feb issue).

Best regards, south
Yes, sorry but Car magazine has no credibility.
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