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      04-06-2012, 07:13 PM   #441
kmarei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR///M3 View Post
honestly if you're looking for a track wheel, you wouldn't get a 20" wheel or a concave 3 piece wheel, not to mention a wheel that is both of these... so this discussion means nothing.

I guess I understand that you say they shouldn't call them track specs, but that is just a name. It isn't like they advertise that they are great track wheels, its again, just a name.

i.e. - Nike makes running shoes with a material they call "fly wire." Are you going to complain to Nike that they shouldn't be called fly wire because the wire doesn't enable the user to fly? NO. Same situation here.

/discussion
Or At&t with their limited unlimited data plan
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      04-06-2012, 11:50 PM   #442
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Does it matter if they hired out or consulted with an engineer assuming he/they do a proper workmanlike job of vetting the design? I'm bringing up this point because smaller companies don't keep high(er) priced talent on staff until the cost/benefit of hiring versus consulting pencils out. I know most of you know this I guess where I'm going is for me personally I don't care how it happened. I just care that it did happen.
I think it matters a bit.

1. I thought there were prior claims that this elusive engineer was an employee. I may not be recalling this correctly.
2. Commitment to engineering: Given a certain volume of work (different designs) along with simulation, overseeing of tests and a continual striving for product improvement and innovation it is unlikely a contracted engineer working part time could keep up and do a reasonable job of all of these key areas.
3. A contracted engineer may be likely to take less time and care in his/her second position than his primary one.
4. A contracted engineer may not have the same level of liability, both formal and informal liability.

So, yes, I agree, it is possible for a wheel company to be doing some valid (perhaps minimal) engineering through an outside contract, however, in my humble opinion a large volume wheel manufacturer should have an employee engineer. Again HRE was not at all bashful about proactively sharing their (top notch) engineer and engineering.

I'm not at all expecting an affirmative reply and thus I (and many others who care about the details) will assume the worst.
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      04-07-2012, 12:44 AM   #443
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HRE is a considerably larger concern making a lot more wheels, they are not directly comparable. I hire engineering outfits at different times when I have my boat in the shipyard and essentially what they do is come in and do the math so to speak. For instance a mounting for a 100 ton winch. You cant just scab some steel up and say "hmmm these bolts are really big, I'm going to use them". You have to get an engineer. Once they are done though the job is done. There are many engineering firms that specialize in this kind of "piece work" if you will. This is how I picture in my mind the need for engineering during the development and testing of a wheel. Once its done its done. Is that correct or am I missing something?
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      04-07-2012, 01:14 AM   #444
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      04-07-2012, 03:14 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman View Post
HRE is a considerably larger concern making a lot more wheels, they are not directly comparable. I hire engineering outfits at different times when I have my boat in the shipyard and essentially what they do is come in and do the math so to speak. For instance a mounting for a 100 ton winch. You cant just scab some steel up and say "hmmm these bolts are really big, I'm going to use them". You have to get an engineer. Once they are done though the job is done. There are many engineering firms that specialize in this kind of "piece work" if you will. This is how I picture in my mind the need for engineering during the development and testing of a wheel. Once its done its done. Is that correct or am I missing something?
Like I said above "a bit".

Your use of engineering consulting sounds very reasonable. However the analogy breaks down given the need for a very large number of variations of a given design. It does not sound like you face that particular challenge. Your quote above about the bolts being big enough (say visually) also sounds like the way way too many wheel companies operate. Perhaps ADV operates the same way. If they claimed they have an engineer on staff and they don't then we can simply add this case to their deceptions. Their existing lies (TUV certification) and lack of response to this concern (not just mine but made by multiple members of the m3post.com community) are plenty enough for me to draw the conclusion I need.

Much like either in the legal world or just in life itself, we have some evidence, some opinions and each person can draw their own conclusions.

Keep up the good use of the engineers you hire! No one should screw around with 100 tons of force when persons are near such equipment. Similarly one should not screw around with the persons lives in cars on public roads and the cars critical safety items such as wheels, tires and brakes. Companies in the latter two fields are VERY serious and very competent with top notch engineering and safety, which you probably knew already.

Cheers.
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Last edited by swamp2; 04-07-2012 at 03:22 AM.
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      04-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #446
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I haven't missed what was said here. I'm shamelessly trying to extend my lesson.
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      04-07-2012, 10:08 AM   #447
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Please let this thread die

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      04-07-2012, 08:10 PM   #448
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Noooooo
I have high hopes we hit the magical 500 post threshold
Wait for it...
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      04-07-2012, 09:30 PM   #449
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Im so glad the mod hasn't use their "let's keep it civil here" excuse to close the thread. I guess it really is too civil here LOL
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      04-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #450
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WOW.....speechless...hope this thread isn't deleted to protect any vendors.
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      04-14-2012, 09:06 PM   #451
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doze'd off for a bit....but back now. new drama stirring, spidey sense alerted me.
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      04-16-2012, 02:25 PM   #452
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weight update

this is from a new customer " TRACK SPEC ".


They never made this fitment before so they gave me a weight estimate of 24/27# F/R based on this style wheel. I was VERY unhappy when they came in and weighed a portly 32/34. Since this is my third set of ADVs and I was happy w/ the two prior (for my GT2 and the R8) and they had weighed as advertised (of course those fitments had been made before), I was quite pissed that ADV's only response to this markedly heavier weight was that the estimate was just an estimate. No return, no refund, no discount, nothing. Needless to say, I'm done w/ ADV1 and their ridiculously poor customer service. I told myself I wouldn't go immediately out and start bashing them on the forums, but when asked about the weights, I am not going to lie.

You (and IND) were right, I should have gone w/ HRE. Much better customer service, lighter wheels, better reputation. I'm very happy w/ the look of the ADV08, but there is no doubt in my mind that I can feel the weight of these suckers. Turn in response is more sluggish, starting from a dig, and braking is more sluggish. They hook up better largely due to the 305s in back.

All in all, bottom line, ADV makes some phenomenal looking wheels, but I will never order another set from them, nor will I ever recommend them to anyone.
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      04-16-2012, 02:40 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowaym3 View Post
this is from a new customer " TRACK SPEC ".

They never made this fitment before so they gave me a weight estimate of 24/27# F/R based on this style wheel. I was VERY unhappy when they came in and weighed a portly 32/34.

All in all, bottom line, ADV makes some phenomenal looking wheels, but I will never order another set from them, nor will I ever recommend them to anyone.
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      04-16-2012, 03:20 PM   #454
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Not that it has anything to do with the OP but - The Track Spec wheel is just a name for a line of our wheels and doesn't mean it is the lightest wheel we produce. If anyone comes to us with weight as a primary concern none of our sales staff is going to recommend that wheel to you as it shares the same center disk forging as our Deep Concave wheel which is the heaviest wheel forging we produce.

Why is it a heavy wheel? Because it (and the Deep Concave) share a forging that is designed to exploit the maximum concavity of an application for the best look - not necessarily the best performance.

People are very quick to jump in and call our wheels anchors but fail to recognize the differences in what they are being compared to. A concave design inherently weighs more than a flat faced spoke design as it requires more material in the spoke design. For the most part - you can't have your cake and eat it too. We can make lightweight concave designs but we'd be recommending a Monoblock SL to get down to a low 20lb weight.

Yet when they are measured up in a more apples to apples fashion (flat faced 3-piece design to flat faced 3-piece design) then they weigh just as much as any other custom 3-piece wheel.



Hope that clears up any weight questions.
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      04-16-2012, 03:51 PM   #455
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The misconception lies in the label "Track" to one of your wheel choices.
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      04-16-2012, 03:59 PM   #456
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Why would anyone get 22" wheels for track purposes?
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      04-16-2012, 04:06 PM   #457
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Quote:
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The misconception lies in the label "Track" to one of your wheel choices.
I agree. It misleads consumers.
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      04-16-2012, 04:28 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt View Post
Not that it has anything to do with the OP but - The Track Spec wheel is just a name for a line of our wheels and doesn't mean it is the lightest wheel we produce. If anyone comes to us with weight as a primary concern none of our sales staff is going to recommend that wheel to you as it shares the same center disk forging as our Deep Concave wheel which is the heaviest wheel forging we produce.
Last I heard, you don't produce ANY wheel forgings so I'd be careful on that.

IMO, this isn't about whether your 3-piece wheels are heavier than so-and-so's and apples to apples comparisons. We all know 3-piece wheels are not the best performance wheel.

It's about the fact that you told the customer one thing and did another. If he asks what the weight will be, you give a number, it better be that. If it's going to turn out to be something significantly different, you damn well better follow up and see how the customer wants to proceed.
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      04-16-2012, 04:32 PM   #459
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Well said.

Quote:
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If it's going to turn out to be something significantly different, you damn well better follow up and see how the customer wants to proceed.
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      04-16-2012, 06:09 PM   #460
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      04-16-2012, 06:37 PM   #461
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      04-16-2012, 06:50 PM   #462
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I knew this thread would never die so I come back every day to see. I was right.

I dont see how calling something Track misleads I have running shoes and I'm just as slow as always.

I commented on the OP on the Mercedes forum since it is for a cls63 but anyway the weight is excessive and if they told him that and were off 25% thats bad. I'm sure whatever "engineering program" they use could tell them the weight when it was just a drawing.

On the picture posted we have no idea what size the wheel is and it has a step lip and flat forging which should make it lighter than 26lbs if it is a 20 if its a 19 then its heavy. AND the only picture you could find was in someones kitchen I like the wolf range I am putting one in my house but really.
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