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[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by db71

Did I hit a nerve????

Yes, one that makes me laugh uncontrollably. But don't tell my girl. She might get the wrong impression.

[db71]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

I hope you don't design rockets or airplanes or something.

I want an engineer to design the airplanes I fly on because they are complex machines. A wheel is one of the most primitive things in the universe. That's all I'm saying.

[MatthewDavid]

Originally Posted by db71

I want an engineer to design the airplanes I fly on because they are complex machines. A wheel is one of the most primitive things in the universe. That's all I'm saying.

Sweet. Let's put some 14s on your ride. And the hub caps with spinners. Since you're cool with primitive.

You're not sucking on lead paint chips as you post, are you?

[DARK_M3]

Interesting thread.

Anyway, I would like to add that just because a wheel isn't forged, rather, it's a gravity cast wheel, doesn't necissarily mean it's not worth having depending on brand, budget or type of vehicle it's going on. I am not advocating any particular brand and I am certainly not advocating getting any wheel that is a 'copy' or ripoff of another (certified) brand. I did have a set of gravity cast Axis Superhiro's on my 370z and I have to say, for an inexpensive wheel, they performed admirably. I had probably 20K miles on them with 3 track days (speeds up to 140 mph) and plenty of spirited street driving including some tail out fun, burnouts etc. I always detailed my own car and checked the wheels for cracks etc while cleaning. I've even pulled the wheels off the car for detailing and they were in great condition. Just a testament to those particular wheels. Like I said, I am not endorsing any brand (including Axis) but I have to give some credit where credit is due. As far as future aftermarket wheels are concerned, I would most likely go for Volks (ran Volk GTU's on my Evo) and NOT for a gravity cast wheel simply because weight (and strength) are concerns for me. Just wanted to share.

[swamp2]

Come on guys lets get back on track and end the name calling and insults. If we don't the mods will be passing out warnings/suspensions and maybe close the thread. Everyone has something correct to say.

Yes some engineers have their heads in the clouds or in the "ivory tower" and can barely tie their shoes. That being said even those guys probably make important contributions to areas other engineers would not be capable of working on. On the opposite end of the spectrum many engineers are both book smart and "street"/practical smarts. Its a bell curve of capabilities and dispositions like any other person/profession.

Sure a wheel is not a rocket, not even close, but pressure loading, braking loads, acceleration loads, curb impact, sliding loads with their resultant stress and strain are not trivial either. Add in the possibility of fatigue in aluminum, casting vs. forging, grain patterns, heat treating, etc. and you absolutely have more than 99.9% of folks without an engineering background can appropriately digest and apply.

If you are fine having a designer design one wheel in a series, test one extreme and call it good to go that is your choice. However, if you believe a critical load bearing and safety related item on a car (perhaps even more so a high performance car that very likely will see speeds well into the triple digits) should have an engineer, FEA, testing AND type certification as well that is also fine. Make your choice through capitalism with your own dollars.

Either way let's get back on topic.

[db71]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Come on guys lets get back on track and end the name calling and insults. If we don't the mods will be passing out warnings/suspensions and maybe close the thread. Everyone has something correct to say.

Yes some engineers have their heads in the clouds or in the "ivory tower" and can barely tie their shoes. That being said even those guys probably make important contributions to areas other engineers would not be capable of working on. On the opposite end of the spectrum many engineers are both book smart and "street"/practical smarts. Its a bell curve of capabilities and dispositions like any other person/profession.

Sure a wheel is not a rocket, not even close, but pressure loading, braking loads, acceleration loads, curb impact, sliding loads with their resultant stress and strain are not trivial either. Add in the possibility of fatigue in aluminum, casting vs. forging, grain patterns, heat treating, etc. and you absolutely have more than 99.9% of folks without an engineering background can appropriately digest and apply.

If you are fine having a designer design one wheel in a series, test one extreme and call it good to go that is your choice. However, if you believe a critical load bearing and safety related item on a car (perhaps even more so a high performance car that very likely will see speeds well into the triple digits) should have an engineer, FEA, testing AND type certification as well that is also fine. Make your choice through capitalism with your own dollars.

Either way let's get back on topic.

I was being sarcastic in case some missed it. I have met many engineering students that are very capsble of working on cars and obviuosly any engineer on a car forum is probably more than capable. and no my kid cannot design a wheel it was a comparison to get a point across.

I agree there is a lot of good info in this thread. I agree with a lot of stuff you are saying swamp.

All I am saying is that wheel technology does not change like other things in the world. The cornering, braking, accelerating loads on a xxxx pound vehicle are the same now as they were 30 years ago assuming the vehicle weighs the same and the weight is in the same place. Once a person could design a wheel for those loads they could probably figure out how to design other wheels for those loads without being an engineer.

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by db71

I was being sarcastic in case some missed it. I have met many engineering students that are very capsble of working on cars and obviuosly any engineer on a car forum is probably more than capable. and no my kid cannot design a wheel it was a comparison to get a point across.

I agree there is a lot of good info in this thread. I agree with a lot of stuff you are saying swamp.

All I am saying is that wheel technology does not change like other things in the world. The cornering, braking, accelerating loads on a xxxx pound vehicle are the same now as they were 30 years ago assuming the vehicle weighs the same and the weight is in the same place. Once a person could design a wheel for those loads they could probably figure out how to design other wheels for those loads without being an engineer.

This is not true AT ALL for at least two reasons. Modern cars produce much more power and modern tires produce much more grip. As such, modern cars are capable of placing much higher loads on the wheels.

[db71]

Originally Posted by M3PO

This is not true AT ALL for at least two reasons. Modern cars produce much more power and modern tires produce much more grip. As such, modern cars are capable of placing much higher loads on the wheels.

Yeah your right your street car produces more power and potentially hooks up better than a street car did 30 yrs ago. But the wheels we are discussing were designed for racing 30yrs ago so which is still more than your street car and your street car on the track.

Lets just say your right a wheel is totally different now than 30 yrs ago.

Even though a pound is still a pound and horsepower is still horsepower and torque is still torque its all measured and rated the same now as then.

You ever heard the saying dont try to reinvent the wheel.

The wheels on our street cars are the wheels used on race cars in the 70's and 80's.

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by db71

Yeah your right your street car produces more power and potentially hooks up better than a street car did 30 yrs ago. But the wheels we are discussing were designed for racing 30yrs ago so which is still more than your street car and your street car on the track.

Lets just say your right a wheel is totally different now than 30 yrs ago.

Even though a pound is still a pound and horsepower is still horsepower and torque is still torque its all measured and rated the same now as then.

You ever heard the saying dont try to reinvent the wheel.

The wheels on our street cars are the wheels used on race cars in the 70's and 80's.

Yes, I have heard that. But if all of my mom's sayings were true, I'd be a piece of pizza.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by db71

I was being sarcastic in case some missed it. I have met many engineering students that are very capsble of working on cars and obviuosly any engineer on a car forum is probably more than capable. and no my kid cannot design a wheel it was a comparison to get a point across.

Was not trying to single you out. The ad hominem was simply getting pretty agressive.

Originally Posted by db71

I agree there is a lot of good info in this thread. I agree with a lot of stuff you are saying swamp.

All I am saying is that wheel technology does not change like other things in the world. The cornering, braking, accelerating loads on a xxxx pound vehicle are the same now as they were 30 years ago assuming the vehicle weighs the same and the weight is in the same place. Once a person could design a wheel for those loads they could probably figure out how to design other wheels for those loads without being an engineer.

Pretty much agree all around here less the correction pointed out that tires are much grippier and speeds higher than 30 years ago for the same weight car. Thus these loads have changed in size but not really in their nature so in that way a load is a load.

So yes through testing almost anyone can design one wheel to be as strong as another existing design. It is more my concern of ones ability to properly extrapolate from one given known good design to one with different loads, different widths, different offsets and even a different shape (same visual design but in the details actually different to accommodate width/offset changes). This takes good engineering, pure and simple.

[italiaboi24]

i stopped at page 9 or so, BUT seriously ADV.1..... pictures don't prove anything. for all we know, that picture (you guys at tuv) says 1000 words, not one is the proof of tuv and blablabla certification.

if you want to be held in the upper echelon in the wheel world, then just prove that so-and-so designs have tuv certification. we don't want pictures of certificates or stupid pictures you guys once took on a trip. just provide proof and it's done. I don't see why this is so hard.

you'd rather have a pissing fight with a consumer (while the whole world watches) than OWN UP. oh yea, annnnnd i'm not going to buy your rims anymore.... pitty, because they're fucking SEXY.

Sack up, champ, and put away the maxi pads. Show up proof!

[rickhunter]

2 week later, no response?

[PINHEAD]

where is the TUV cert. they promised months ago saying it was in the mail etc. etc.?

pathetic

[Team Plutonium]

Well, I'm not really surprised....

[M3PO]

Where is Vossen's certification?

[FruitCake]

ADV.1's rep is so fucked its hilarious. So are the resale value of every ADV.1 rim out there on the forum, who's gonna pay that price for non-certified junk. lulz

[db71]

I have an idea how about everyone show proof of certification for the wheels they have on their car that is for that car and then we can start asking where other companies Certs. are.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by M3PO

Where is Vossen's certification?

+1

[Moxie]

Originally Posted by Moxie

So where are they @? Priority mail takes five days - coming by boat?

Originally Posted by E90///M3`

Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt

Guys we have no control over how quickly the documents are processed at TUV. It's not exactly a small operation over there but our paperwork has been filed, we're just waiting to have it processed and sent back.

So how long does processing take?

[PINHEAD]

Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt

Guys we have no control over how quickly the documents are processed at TUV. It's not exactly a small operation over there but our paperwork has been filed, we're just waiting to have it processed and sent back.

dog ate ur homework? is that why 2.5 months later, nothing?

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by inandout

Just because they say so on their website?

unless something has recently changed, that is not correct.

Forgestar does state on their website that they are JWL, VIA and SAE certified.

I mean how do we find out...here is their website in which they specifically state this..

http://www.forgestar.com/v2/about.php

I have no dog in this hunt..just as a potential consumer how do we find out such things? I know people in 997s and M3s that track their cars with Forgestar wheels with no issues. Doesn't mean something can't happen. How we as consumers can do our due diligence.

Here is their test data page..

http://www.forgestar.com/v2/testdata.php



Dave

[aus]

I know APEX had a website that showed their wheels being JWL/VIA tested.

.