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      03-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #23
von_zoom
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again - luck nobody got hurt - could have been much worse. There were emergency crew working the track while this all happened!
Which begs the question - why were red flags at uptrack stations not being shown. Turn one is a real question why no flag was given. The rolling equipment at the incident scene is clearly visible from the video car, to me indicating that some time had passed since the accident. Enought time to get other flags out?

Anyone who knows VIR the corner buckets controlling Turn two, and Turn three begin at Turn one corner station. The station controlling Turn three, or NASCAR as it is also called, is located a good distant off track but is in line with the track entering NASCAR. The potential problem being that as you exit Turn two, driving focus is on entry into NASCAR, turn in, and then the short straight into Turn four, taking your view plain away from the Corner worker at NASCAR. Because of its distant from the track, that guy has got to be waving that flag with great vigor to get your attention. With a group of cars racing, I can see how they were more focused on traffic and avoiding each other than flag activity at NASCAR. Thus, on exit from NASCAR, my my, look whats ahead.

Yes, lucky no one was collected and the situation made worst.
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      03-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
Agreed.

again - luck nobody got hurt - could have been much worse. There were emergency crew working the track while this all happened!
That is the biggest thing that suprised me is the fact that the emergancy vehicles where at the incident before the cars were brought under positive control by a pace car or red flag.I have driven emergency vehicles before at a few major pro races and we never rolled on track till one of those items were in place.
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      03-28-2012, 01:49 PM   #25
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That is the biggest thing that suprised me is the fact that the emergancy vehicles where at the incident before the cars were brought under positive control by a pace car or red flag.I have driven emergency vehicles before at a few major pro races and we never rolled on track till one of those items were in place.
Given the evidence here I think the management has some to blame as well. Was there a red flag at turn 1? If not, why not?
Having emergency crew ON TRACK in this situation could have made a bad incident much much worse. Imagine a pack of out of control miatas plowing into the crew. The guy at the head of pack wouldn't be able to stop with miata's slamming into his rear. And as shown, he would have tried to brake as much as possible creating smoke obstructing the view. Another pack of cars could have easily come upon this mess - maybe not at full speed but when you roll into lots of smoke, neither do you want to stop nor do you want to roll slowly as you won't be able to see anything. very scary.

Something went wrong and I think management should be the first to study this video and see what went wrong and how to prevent something like this again.
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      03-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #26
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Something went wrong and I think management should be the first to study this video and see what went wrong and how to prevent something like this again.
Knowing NASA and their cheif instructor, this is a given. Meetings in all likely hood have already happened. They are not happy campers.
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      03-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #27
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Knowing NASA and their cheif instructor, this is a given. Meetings in all likely hood have already happened. They are not happy campers.
vz
I hope this video was submitted to them or brought to their attention.
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      03-28-2012, 02:06 PM   #28
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I watched the video again - looks like station one either didn't get the message or was asleep. emergency vehicles were already there or at least on the way. there was no reason why corner 1 didn't have a waiving yellow flag
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      03-28-2012, 04:20 PM   #29
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And this guy hits a tow truck after or before this incident:

!

Man?! What a mess!
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      03-28-2012, 05:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
That is the biggest thing that surprised me is the fact that the emergancy vehicles where at the incident before the cars were brought under positive control by a pace car or red flag.I have driven emergency vehicles before at a few major pro races and we never rolled on track till one of those items were in place.
Agree, sounds like a flagging f-up, but... Regardless of flagging errors, I still don't understand or agree with a rule calling for cars to stop on track unless the track is blocked. Maybe just what I got used to.
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      03-28-2012, 09:13 PM   #31
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peeps common sense must prevail.....
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      03-29-2012, 04:21 PM   #32
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I had red flag at BMW club DE events a couple of times, and everybody just stopped without any drama. Probably clear instructions upfront and lack of racing competitiveness helped.

But once I has a red flag at a track day with another club and it was a bit of a mess - some cars stopped, but then some race cars that were being tested kept going slowly, because as they explained they would blow up if stopped without cool down, and some other street cars followed them, with one guy of the followers yelling at stopped cars "WTF? Go!" while the flag was waived. It was confusing at best. That's why driver meetings are important.

When we ran Calabogie, they explained their policy very clearly - open-wheelers keep going as slowly and carefully as you can, and everyone else stop with care in safe place with marshal station visible. Not sure if it's optimal from the safety standpoint, but at least it's clear.
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      03-29-2012, 10:22 PM   #33
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And this guy hits a tow truck after or before this incident:

!

Man?! What a mess!
Yeah, watch the scene in this guys rear view mirror at 3:22! The guy ahead that spins in NASCAR forces off a white car behind this camera car, which proceeds to ram the rescue tow truck. so in the OP's original vid, this is the 2nd wrecked car seen facing the wrong way beyond the tow truck. THIS is what finally signals the red flag. A real Cluster F...
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      03-29-2012, 10:33 PM   #34
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Yeah, watch the scene in this guys rear view mirror at 3:22! The guy ahead that spins in NASCAR forces off a white car behind this camera car, which proceeds to ram the rescue tow truck. so in the OP's original vid, this is the 2nd wrecked car seen facing the wrong way beyond the tow truck. THIS is what finally signals the red flag. A real Cluster F...
Then where was the yellow before the red? Emergency vehicles were already on track.
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      03-30-2012, 08:08 AM   #35
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NASA MA does hot pulls, so they're more likely to do a white flag or white/yellow local to the turn. Not defending...just saying NASA EV is frequently on the track while the race continues.
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      03-30-2012, 09:04 AM   #36
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Not to keep perfuming the pig, but additional details have come forward which brings the incident into a little more focus. Not to say, right or wrong, but to add some clarity.

At the end of the first lap, a white flag was displayed at turn one, which was the lead in area to the developing ongoing problems on or near the track. If looked carefully, (due to the video clarity, difficult to see) and with a little imagination, the white flag at turn one is visible in both videos. As more cars became involve shortly thereafter, additional problems developed at NASCAR and beyond which triggered a red flag all. The driver in the Miata on lap two observed the white flag at turn one, was alert and prepared to slow when he saw the red flag at NASCAR which had just gone red all.
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      03-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #37
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Yeah there's nothing wrong with hot pulls at all when they're done right.

Sounds like throwing the red was another case of "fog of war" at race control, that's why red flags are so spooky, it can sound like all hell is breaking loose on track when multiple incidents occur and IIRC VIR's control tower has no line of sight at all to the incident in question so they might not have even known that 3/4 of the track was still open
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