Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Lon@HRE

What is TUV?

Over the years HRE has received numerous questions regarding TUV certification. What is it? Why is it important? What is required? Other companies are starting to claim they have TUV certification and we have received numerous questions as to whether these claims are true or false. HRE can’t determine whether others are properly going through the legitimate process of getting TUV approval or just falsely claiming TUV approval to improve their image. What we can do is clarify what is required of TUV and what you should be looking for from a company that claims to have TUV approval.



1) WHAT IS TUV? - In the case of wheels, TUV is a European auditing and certification body that ensures wheels manufactured for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria meet international (ECE Regulations), EC (European Community) directives, and German Motor Traffic Agency (KBA) road traffic legislation.

2) HOW DOES TUV WORK? - There are 3 major aspects to receiving TUV certification.
a) Manufacturer Certification (Certification of the wheel manufacturer’s quality management system) - If you aren’t an actual manufacturer you can’t be a TUV certified manufacturer. If you’re not a real manufacturer and your supplier isn’t a TUV certified manufacturer you cannot have your wheels TUV approved. This requires that the actual manufacturing facility (in HRE’s case this is our production facility at our headquarters in Vista, CA) passes an audit every 3 years by TUV authorities from Europe. The facility must ensure the manufacture of its wheels meet the standards set by the authorities above in point 1. This is very similar to an ISO 9001 audit and designed to ensure consistent quality of manufacture. TUV wants to ensure that wheels sent to TUV for te sting are not “ringers” and that all wheels manufactured at the approved facility meet the same standards. HRE’s quality management system was originally certified in 2008 by Germany and recertified in 2011 by Austria (which is applicable for Germany).

b) WHEEL TESTING CERTIFICATES (Certification of wheels as conforming to geometric standards and having passed structural fatigue and impact requirements for specific vehicle and load rating requirements) - Once a manufacturer’s facility is certified they are then able to send wheels to Europe to pass TUV geometric tolerance analysis and testing for fatigue and impact. This is not a generic style-based test, but vehicle-based with each style being tested with the proper widths and offsets and load rating for the appropriate vehicle targets. This is a very time consuming and costly endeavor for any manufacturer to TUV certify their entire wheel offering, particularly a brand like HRE that makes custom fitments and offers dozens of styles for any particular vehicle. Given this fact, HRE does not certify every style and fitment, however we do have multiple styles in several fitments tested, approved and certified for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Regardless of certification, ALL HRE wheels are designed to pass TUV structural specifications (with varying load ratings depending on vehicle targets) and are sent for certification when the demand for them in Europe meets a minimum threshold.

c) VEHICLE OWNER CERTIFICATION (Certificates ensuring wheels installed on an owner’s vehicle are TUV certified for that vehicle) - This is a certificate that the owner of the vehicle receives from TUV authorities showing his wheels are TUV certified so he can legally register his vehicle and pass annual inspections in Germany. The wheel manufacturer does not supply this document.

3) IS TUV FOR WHEELS ONLY? - TUV does not only cover wheels. It covers everything from toys to wheels to appliances so companies may hold TUV certificates that do not in any way allow them to legally sell wheels in Germany, Switzerland or Austria. By the same token HRE is only able to sell wheels (not toys) and only those wheels tested in Europe having passed the appropriate tests. None of this is possible without FIRST receiving the manufacturer certification. More importantly, simply by having a wheel pass a TUV test does NOT mean you are a TUV certified manufacturer. You must have a manufacturing facility to certify and that facility must pass the audit.

4) WHY DOESN'T HRE PUBLISH TUV CERTIFICATIONS? - We’ve been asked for a long time to publish TUV certificates. For many reasons HRE does not publish internal specifications and documents, but we will deviate from that decision to help clarify the confusion and show you our manufacturer certificates from 2008 and 2011 and we will show you an example of a wheel testing certificate; in this case the latest wheels sent to TUV for testing, a P43 in 20x9.5 ET42, PCD 5/114.3. The tests required 3 wheels to be tested for cornering fatigue, radial fatigue and impact at 750kg, a much higher level than the original design load rating. All passed. These tests certify the P43 style in that specific width, offset and PCD for that specific load rating.








5) HOW DO I KNOW IF A COMPANY IS REALLY TUV APPROVED? - TUV obviously wants to ensure others aren’t making false claims about TUV approval. For this reason they have a simple website system to check a manufacturer’s TUV Registration ID number. HRE’s current TUV ID number is 20102112006509. This number can be confirmed as genuine by following the link below to the TUV website and entering the registration number or simply typing in HRE. Ask a manufacturer for their registration ID number and website link. They should be proud to give it to you.

HRE TUV ID check: CLICK HERE
TÜV Austria - TÜV AUSTRIA - System Certificates
Search for ID 20102112006509



TUV RHEINLAND CERTIFICATE CHECK, TÜV Rheinland Group - TUVdotCOM Service



If there are any further questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.


HRE Factory tour
Here are some great video tours of the HRE facility and how HRE makes wheel

eGarage - HRE Wheels
How HRE Forged Wheels Are Made - The Octane Report - YouTube
HRE Wheels - "PLUS" level production package example - YouTube

Thank you for that!

[db71]

Right there under wheel testing in the HRE statement it says not every style and fitment is tested. So all the fancy photos and big long story to find out only "some" wheels are tested.

Same bs as other some other companies a big fancy article to tell you they have a certified management process. Which doesnt have a damn thing to do with wheel testing. I could see where this is misleading if other people cannot they are blind.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by db71

Right there under wheel testing in the HRE statement it says not every style and fitment is tested. So all the fancy photos and big long story to find out only "some" wheels are tested.

Same bs as other some other companies a big fancy article to tell you they have a certified management process. Which doesnt have a damn thing to do with wheel testing. I could see where this is misleading if other people cannot they are blind.

Yes, some wheels are tested, some are not. Full disclosure from HRE. We have yet to see a single certificate from ADV.1 though.

At this point I don't think you are doing ADV.1 any favors by posting.

[Moxie]

Originally Posted by db71

Right there under wheel testing in the HRE statement it says not every style and fitment is tested. So all the fancy photos and big long story to find out only "some" wheels are tested.

Same bs as other some other companies a big fancy article to tell you they have a certified management process. Which doesnt have a damn thing to do with wheel testing. I could see where this is misleading if other people cannot they are blind.

Why the hate - They're not claiming anything they don't have. The certs right there.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Moxie

Why the hate - They're not claiming anything they don't have. The certs right there.

+1 He is grasping at straws at this point....

[db71]

Originally Posted by Moxie

Why the hate - They're not claiming anything they don't have. The certs right there.

Your right the certification for 6 wheels and the management process. Is right there. They sell a lot more than 6 wheels.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by db71

Your right the certification for 6 wheels and the management process. Is right there. They sell a lot more than 6 wheels.

Again, totally invalid point. HRE provides full disclose... in fact, it solidifies my argument.

[db71]

Yes but people only see the TUV and don't read the details and say. HRE wheels are TUV certified. I can find probably 50 comments on here that say just that. When in fact 6 HRE wheels are certified.

It is not lying but could definatly be misleading. like I said earlier not what they say it's what they don't say.

[phillegal]

Originally Posted by db71

Yes but people only see the TUV and don't read the details and say. HRE wheels are TUV certified. I can find probably 50 comments on here that say just that. When in fact 6 HRE wheels are certified.

It is not lying but could definatly be misleading. like I said earlier not what they say it's what they don't say.

I think somewhere (either in this thread or a similar one) it has been mentioned that not every wheel is TUV certified because that would be extremely expensive. You do not need to test every offset, rim size etc. as long as for each style (or similar enough styles), at least one wheel is tested. FEA can (assuming you know what you're doing) reasonably test the other sizes/offsets. Arguably, rim to rim, the amount of material and method in which they are produced does not vary greatly. As long as one rim passes certification, it does lend greatly to the notion that all rims produced by that manufacturer should also pass.

On the other hand, if a manufacturer has zero certifications, there are no ways to assess if ANY of its wheels are safe. Therefore third-party verification is necessary.

I don't think it's misleading, but rather that a lot people are not very bright. 6>0

[Poppin Fresh]

If it is true that they only have 6 TUV certified wheels, it is better than having an imaginary certificate on wheels that have never been tested.

[db71]

Originally Posted by phillegal

I think somewhere (either in this thread or a similar one) it has been mentioned that not every wheel is TUV certified because that would be extremely expensive. You do not need to test every offset, rim size etc. as long as for each style (or similar enough styles), at least one wheel is tested. FEA can (assuming you know what you're doing) reasonably test the other sizes/offsets. Arguably, rim to rim, the amount of material and method in which they are produced does not vary greatly. As long as one rim passes certification, it does lend greatly to the notion that all rims produced by that manufacturer should also pass.

On the other hand, if a manufacturer has zero certifications, there are no ways to assess if ANY of its wheels are safe. Therefore third-party verification is necessary.

I don't think it's misleading, but rather that a lot people are not very bright. 6>0

I agree with this 100% especially the last statement.

In regards to this what I understood about adv1's paper as someone who was in the know seemed to say it was a certificate of conformity I do not know but to me this would seem to me that at least that wheel conforms to TUV standards?

I am just interested to know if a wheel can conform to TUV standards or be TUV tested without the company's management process being TUV certified?

As someone said Most of us are in the US where SAE matters.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Poppin Fresh

If it is true that they only have 6 TUV certified wheels, it is better than having an imaginary certificate on wheels that have never been tested.

This.

[db71]

I just read post #26. I did not realize that the conformity thing on the picture posted could be their own test or any other test such as SAE JWL. Now that I read this I see why the criticism on this topic. The last part I read was they said they were waiting on paperwork so I guess we will wait and see what happens.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by db71

I just read post #26. I did not realize that the conformity thing on the picture posted could be their own test or any other test such as SAE JWL. Now that I read this I see why the criticism on this topic. The last part I read was they said they were waiting on paperwork so I guess we will wait and see what happens.

Maybe now it's time to revisit your comments in the other thread as well?

[db71]

Wow I'm not going through all that bs. But I do not think that I defended the whole TUV thing and ADV1 i actually said it was misleading and they probably regret saying it.

But I do know that people are not lining up complaining about issues with their products. B

Hey you never know they screw up somebody has to sell wheels to their customers now the information is out there to what makes some people on this forum decide what wheels to buy.

I myself would never buy ADV1 wheels because the ones I would want I feel are priced to high. I would not buy hre either though.

[HRE_Mickey]

Just so NOBODY thinks HRE is trying to say all of our wheels are TUV certified, we’ll state it again. NOT ALL HRE WHEELS ARE TUV CERTIFIED. The certifications we show above show these 2 things:

1. Our Quality Management System is TUV certified – This is the hard part requiring the audit and adherence to a strict quality control process.
2. The certs for the wheels shows only that the P43 in that particular width, offset, diameter, etc. is TUV certified. This required 3 wheels to be tested; Radial fatigue, Cornering fatigue, Impact. This is one style in one specification, not 6 wheels. To TUV cert the P43 across all applications is a daunting and expensive process. We were just showing an example so you know what a genuine TUV wheel testing certification looks like.

Now all that being said, we have TUV certified dozens of wheels, usually in popular styles, like the P40 in several specifications for our popular fitments for Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc. Not all Porsches, not all BMWs, not all styles. Does this make sense?

NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: Officially you’re not supposed to be able to have a TUV certified WHEELS WITHOUT the TUV certified FACILITY. However, many TUV vehicle registration stations will accept a TUV test cert of the wheel and never “bother to check” if the company itself holds a TUV certification. This is unfortunate as there is no guarantee that the quality of the wheel tested is representative of all the wheels manufactured (even of the same specification). If the company doesn’t have a professional QM system, the variability is simply unknown. HRE worked to get our COMPANY certified BEFORE we sent any WHEELS to certify so when we present a TUV wheel certification, it is all by the book.

We are also very careful to make sure what we say accurately represents the truth in what we do and in what is required. Lying or trying to trick people isn’t good for long-term business and we expect to be here a long time. So please don’t compare us to those that don’t care to tell the truth or simply don’t understand what is required. If we make a mistake, we are open about it. If we say something incorrect, please feel free to correct us.

Also, if you’re an industry person, as it is clear some of the newer members on this thread are, we think you should state your company and post as a company representative. HRE posts as HRE. We believe it helps all the members of this forum if everyone knows where the info is coming from, not just what is being said. We don’t care if you’re helping or bashing HRE and others, we’d just like to see you do it out in the open.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Lon@HRE

Just so NOBODY thinks HRE is trying to say all of our wheels are TUV certified, we’ll state it again. NOT ALL HRE WHEELS ARE TUV CERTIFIED. The certifications we show above show these 2 things:

1. Our Quality Management System is TUV certified – This is the hard part requiring the audit and adherence to a strict quality control process.
2. The certs for the wheels shows only that the P43 in that particular width, offset, diameter, etc. is TUV certified. This required 3 wheels to be tested; Radial fatigue, Cornering fatigue, Impact. This is one style in one specification, not 6 wheels. To TUV cert the P43 across all applications is a daunting and expensive process. We were just showing an example so you know what a genuine TUV wheel testing certification looks like.

Now all that being said, we have TUV certified dozens of wheels, usually in popular styles, like the P40 in several specifications for our popular fitments for Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc. Not all Porsches, not all BMWs, not all styles. Does this make sense?

NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: Officially you’re not supposed to be able to have a TUV certified WHEELS WITHOUT the TUV certified FACILITY. However, many TUV vehicle registration stations will accept a TUV test cert of the wheel and never “bother to check” if the company itself holds a TUV certification. This is unfortunate as there is no guarantee that the quality of the wheel tested is representative of all the wheels manufactured (even of the same specification). If the company doesn’t have a professional QM system, the variability is simply unknown. HRE worked to get our COMPANY certified BEFORE we sent any WHEELS to certify so when we present a TUV wheel certification, it is all by the book.

We are also very careful to make sure what we say accurately represents the truth in what we do and in what is required. Lying or trying to trick people isn’t good for long-term business and we expect to be here a long time. So please don’t compare us to those that don’t care to tell the truth or simply don’t understand what is required. If we make a mistake, we are open about it. If we say something incorrect, please feel free to correct us.

Also, if you’re an industry person, as it is clear some of the newer members on this thread are, we think you should state your company and post as a company representative. HRE posts as HRE. We believe it helps all the members of this forum if everyone knows where the info is coming from, not just what is being said. We don’t care if you’re helping or bashing HRE and others, we’d just like to see you do it out in the open.

Well said! Thank you for this!

[db71]

Lon

I am sorry if you think I work for a company. I have bought my fair share of wheels and used to sell cast wheels you know like 26"+. There is a lot of info on the Internet about your companies and other companies.

I am not saying you said all your wheels are rated the problem is that other people say that and then people bash other companies saying well all of HRE wheels are TUV rated.

I am not insulting your company. I have not posted any of the threads about your failures. I just simply pointed out what the TUV certificate in your post said on it.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by db71

Lon

I am sorry if you think I work for a company. I have bought my fair share of wheels and used to sell cast wheels you know like 26"+. There is a lot of info on the Internet about your companies and other companies.

I am not saying you said all your wheels are rated the problem is that other people say that and then people bash other companies saying well all of HRE wheels are TUV rated.

I am not insulting your company. I have not posted any of the threads about your failures. I just simply pointed out what the TUV certificate in your post said on it.

Well, you have to admit that it looks a little weird. You just joined, and you only post on two threads defending ADV.1 (although recently you branched out a bit...). Your motivation joining a random forum, and then randomly decide to create an account to defend a company you have no ties to, nor do you own ADV1 wheels, etc... is just bizarre at best.

[Tony135]

Everyone that is a part of ADV.1 posts from an ADV.1 name such as myself or Matt.

EDIT: Forgot that they haven't changed my name over still...lol. But I am openly working for ADV.1 and have a sponsored user name.

[ADV.1 Matt]

ADV.1 Testing Procedures and documentation
Due to the recent rumors circulating the internet we felt it was necessary to explain our testing, engineering, and warranty procedures for those interested.

Testing Procedures:
All of our forgings are initially engineered around a certain range of vehicle fitments / load ratings. Normally we design the forging die itself around a 2000lb. per corner load rating umbrella. This means that so long as all wheels using this forging are engineered around the tested / certified material thickness minimums based on the test certification, no further testing is required unless an order violates these guidelines for any reason. To give you an example of this, see diagram below.



For any wheels which do in fact contain material in some areas which is less than the tested / certified guideline minimums, we then use our in house xxx testing equipment. An example of this would be on wheels like our new SL series where they are engineered for the exact vehicle the order is intended for thus the material thickness tolerances may be too conservative for the subject vehicle in question. For example, if we're engineering a set of SL's for an R8 like the schematic below illustrates, the load rating of the vehicle is much less and the necessary material needed for safe use on this vehicle may be much less than the originally tested 2000lb / corner rating. With this being said, we use FEA analysis software to effectively determine the necessary material needed for this car. Once finalized, a physical test wheel is made for destruction testing on our radial and fatigue testing equipment which we've obtained for this exact purpose. Based on the resulting data of the test we then are able to confirm or deny the file which leads to either production of the wheel. revisions to engineering and re-testing, or additional reduction of material in order to further tweak the file for maximum weight reduction.






Testing procedures of the initial forging / umbrella certification is done by a company called STL or Standard Testing Labs. This is a US based, independent testing facility which provides multiple types of testing procedures. For each individual test subject a certification outlining the results and details is provided, see examples below which we have on file for all ADV.1 Forgings used.



Our in house radial cornering / fatigue testing equipment also provides documentation on each subject tested, an example of such is shown below:



In regards to TUV Testing, as many know is something we've been working diligently towards with our German Partners, ATT-Tec in Berlin, is a long process and despite what many believe is actually a never ending requirement needed for every single size, offset, application, PCD, etc. The process is very expensive and time consuming however is the only way to provide customers in Germany with aftermarket products of any type. Below is a detailed explanation written recently by Jordan Swerdloff on this subject:

"TUV requires individual testing and certification documents for every single wheel style, in each size, for each application so there's still a long road ahead of us in order to be able to offer all styles to a wide range of vehicles. So far we officially have our ADV5.1 monoblock approved in 20x8.5+18 / 20x11+20 for BMW e92 M3. Each additional certification will only require roughly a week for testing / approval now that the TUV recognizes the company as an approved manufacturer which will soon be added to their database once the paperwork is complete, the majority of the documentation and testing is not needed for each additional certification. Current plans for the remainder of 2012 will include 18 more certifications, 3 styles in both 1 piece and 3 piece track spec configurations, offered to 3 different vehicle platforms.

Although there is still a long way to go, this is a huge step in the process of opening the door to Germany. Currently the selection of wheels able to be sold is very limited and the only option enthusiasts have is to either choose from the limited selection of approved brands, mostly cast wheels or to risk fines and even the loss of their vehicles by driving without TUV certified products on their car. Now, through the efforts of our Exclusive German Distributors ATT-Tec, the German market will finally be able to enjoy our wheels without having to worry about the consequences of driving without approved aftermarket components on their vehicles."











ADV.1 Materials / Suppliers
3 Piece center disc forgings:
Material: 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum
Suppliers:
ASA
Centerline

1 Piece monoblock forgings:
Material: 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum
Suppliers:
ASA

3 Piece rim halves / excluding 21/22 inch Standard reverse parts (step lip):
Material: 5051 Spun Forged Aluminum / 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum
Suppliers:
ARS
Triangle

3 Piece 21/22 inch Standard reverse parts (step lip) rim halves:
Material: 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum
Suppliers:
Triangle

Machining:
Performed: In house / ADV.1 Dedicated portion of MHT Machining Production Facility

Engineering / Programming:
Performed: In house / ADV.1 Staff

[Team Plutonium]

Looks like you are on your way to get your TUV certificate. I wish you all the best. Thank you for posting STL report.

I've read the german test report as well and ADV.1 passed with flying colors. It is not TUV, but an independent testing lab.

It looks like ADV.1 proofed that they are in the business to make safe wheels, and that the whole TUV certification debacle was a miss communication on their part.