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      07-09-2007, 08:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
The irony is that the “haters” are actually the enthusiasts that care and don’t blindly eat what is put on the table. I have posted negative comments hopping that BMW will read my comments and realise that we aren’t all Lemmings that buy on reputation. I personally am looking forward to taking delivery. Why are we called “haters” when we are the true lovers?

Dont make the assumption that "ALL" of us sitting on the otherside of the fence are just blind BMW Lemmings Alot of us are car enthusiasts as well who just want to see and judge the darn thing for ourselfs and not thru HEARSAY which btw is the only card those haters have at this point. For most of the "Haters" they take for gospel all the negatives from these few very early pre-reviews (not full on roadtests mind you) while leaving out any positives. And then repeat them over and over all over the place, so who are the real "lemmings" here that blindly ate something?

Everyone knows from every past release of a new car (IE GT3)no matter the make "MOST" (im not saying all) haters are just sad little people who never had any intention of ever buying the car for whatever reason, couldnt afford one, jealousy, rival car or no reason at all etc.. etc... They just enjoy spreading negativity.

Now there are some enthusiasts on both sides that have concerns I dont doubt that.

Disregarding everything though. The car hasnt been released yet.. NUFF SAID.

Last edited by Tobizach; 07-09-2007 at 10:53 AM.
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      07-09-2007, 09:02 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Both members T-bone and Southlight from this board know I'm not a hater, on the contrary I adore BMW but Im not going to be quiet and pretend BMW cannot make mistakes with an icon, a legend.
There was never any question from me about your rep. I have read great posts by you on this and on other boards. Either way I still simply take great exception with your opinion on where the sales numbers will end up.
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      07-09-2007, 09:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
The irony is that the “haters” are actually the enthusiasts that care and don’t blindly eat what is put on the table. I have posted negative comments hopping that BMW will read my comments and realise that we aren’t all Lemmings that buy on reputation. I personally am looking forward to taking delivery. Why are we called “haters” when we are the true lovers?

Well there do seem to be rather a lot of people making ill-informed posts which, if based on any useful data at all, are based on extremely selective reading of the scant reviews to date.

I think those of us who have been planning to part with around £60K to buy the new M3 will be looking to do so with their eyes open (which is probably why some of them joined this board).

P.S. Does posting here mean I am a hater too?
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      07-09-2007, 09:19 AM   #26
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Wrong then...still wrong

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Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
For months I've been waving red warning flags here. The specs and pre-release info all added up to the apocalypse we are now seeing. I've been in this game for too long to be fooled by the 'M' hype.

If you remember, the argument made by myself and others was that for $50K you could build a well equipped 335i that was actually as track worthy and faster than the M3. The counter was well it's an 'M', it will be special and hard core from the factory. Well, now it's apparent that with bolt-on mod and far less $$ the 335i will run with and past the new M3 in most performance measures.

So, now more people are seeing that I (and others) are more right with each passing day...thus the complaints.

I'm not here to hate. I would love to see a 450HP, 380TQ 3200 lb M3 for $60K well equipped. I even did a 2 yr lease last year on my 335i anticipating the next generation (M3, C63, CTS-V, GT-R). I also know BMW monitors these boards, so the more people scream disappointment, the quicker they will respond.

PS It looks like the new 'M3' may really be a bolt-on modded 135i!
OMG I am really stunned you would even go here (again...) This crap post so typifies "knee jerk" reaction. Aren't you so proud and clever that you knew then and know now how crap the new M is and how much better a modded 335i will be. Give me a freaking break.

1. Yes you are smart, the good old M boys sure didn't fool you with this junker.
2. You can't build a 335i into an M beater that will beat it in a majority of counts for less than the M3 will cost. Just my opinion and educated guess but it just ain't gonna happen. Either way we both need to wait until there are actual test specs. Maybe you could point out the exact new information that has led you to conclude you were right all along - WE DON'T HAVE ANY. The only real new data I have heard about is that the new M3 out sprints the F360 from 0-1000m (WITHOUT DCT!).
3.Yeah that 335i you love so much is really "hard-core". Look I like the car, a lot, but it is so marshmellow compared to the M. Christ many of the suspension bushings in the new M3 are metal as opposed to elastomer. That is hardcore. No matter where you start with the 335i it will be hard to part with its inheirent marshmellow characteristics. Sure you can take its amazing track times and improve them tons with software alone, that still won't make it feel much less marshmellow.
4. You can't build an M3 with the specs you outlined, "well equipped" for $60k that would actually sell in volume. It just can't be done. May be harsh but wake up and smell the engineering and the comprimise.

Ending this post with my most commonly used ending in the last week......


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      07-09-2007, 10:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
I know its bold statement. I'm just preparing for the worst scenario. I dont think the IS-F is going to be a problem but the C63 looks dangerous.

Both members T-bone and Southlight from this board know I'm not a hater, on the contrary I adore BMW but Im not going to be quiet and pretend BMW cannot make mistakes with an icon, a legend. I hope BMW haven't underestimated the competition or taken the wrong path with this M3.
Yes, I'm disappointed with reviews so far, not what I expected. I'm so looking forward for Sportauto Supertest, the results for M3 and C63. We already know what the RS4 is capable of. I want to be proved wrong and I'm crossing my thumbs that will be the case.

I of course have never doubted you or put you in the light of a "hater" but I just think many people have drawn way too early of a conclusion.

Cars are not just the sum of the numbers, otherwise at the track, a 450 hp Stanger would walk away from everything. BMWs and in particular, M's have always struck a great balance between luxury and performance.

I think just looking at the numbers alone can be extremely deceptive. The Audi S4 as an example with 340 hp, people would presume it kills the 335i, it doesn't. The IS-F, great numbers but does anyone seriously think Toyota can build a better sedan than BMW for both the road and track? The new M3's numbers are decent.....good power + weight.... I am supremely confident BMW will not screw up the handling....

Given all that I have read, I absolutely have no idea how people can conclude the new car is soft or slow!
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      07-09-2007, 12:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
1. Yes you are smart
2. You can't build a 335i into an M beater that will beat it in a majority of counts for less than the M3 will cost.
3. Sure you can take its amazing track times and improve them tons with software alone, that still won't make it feel much less marshmellow.
4. You can't build an M3 with the specs you outlined, "well equipped" for $60k that would actually sell in volume. It just can't be done. May be harsh but wake up and smell the engineering and the comprimise.
1) Thanks.
2) You are completely uninformed to post this point.
3) Ever heard of Coilovers, Forged wheels, and Quaife LSD's?
4) I'd rather the price roll up to get what is needed than to dumb down to hit a price point on a halo car.
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      07-09-2007, 12:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
I hope everyone are happy when it turns out that both C63, RS4 and IS-F offer better handling and a better driving experience than the new M3
I wish I was as confident as you guys are about the new M3 V8. I hope Im wrong when I say the new M3 isnt the ultimate driving machine anymore.
Please stop lying. You're not fooling anyone. We all know your purpose here. To hate and flame.
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      07-09-2007, 12:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
I of course have never doubted you or put you in the light of a "hater" but I just think many people have drawn way too early of a conclusion.
I have also said I hope I'm wrong and wants to be proven wrong. It's not a dead end yet.

The M3 isn't alone any longer, RS4 has been improved a lot and the C63 so far has some very positive reviews. Both RS and AMG divisions are breathing BMW down their neck.
C63 means business, now with LSD and 100% turn off ESP (well,almost but better than before), improved steering so they want a piece of the cake too.
I hope BMW hasn't underestimated the competition
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      07-09-2007, 12:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
Please stop lying. You're not fooling anyone. We all know your purpose here. To hate and flame.
Just_me isn't a hater....you can trust me on this one.
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      07-09-2007, 12:53 PM   #32
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He sure acts like one lately.

Maybe it's just the over-reaction.
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      07-09-2007, 02:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
He sure acts like one lately.

Maybe it's just the over-reaction.
Disappointment with the reviews I would say....my mind was set on other conclusions before I started to read those reviews. And I know the C63 is here..
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      07-09-2007, 05:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Disappointment with the reviews I would say....my mind was set on other conclusions before I started to read those reviews. And I know the C63 is here..
C63 will be a nice car, I'm sure. Guess we'll have to see what the comparisons show.

Kinda early to be getting your panties in a bunch, don't ya think?
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      07-09-2007, 05:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
I was worried when I saw the M3 concept. I thought it looked like an IS-F coupe. Weird bodykit, big pimple on the hood, guppy mouthed front spoler, rear that looks like something from an aero-kit. The side gills that look like a handle from a 50' fridge, weird sideskirts, the wheels were just CSL.



funny dude... although I'll probably end up with an E92 M3 you have to admit there's some truth to what he's saying....
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      07-09-2007, 05:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Disappointment with the reviews I would say....my mind was set on other conclusions before I started to read those reviews. And I know the C63 is here..
I dont think the reviews have been THAT bad, geez. The car is different than the previous M as its moving "up-market" to make room for the 1 series.

Its still going to be a hell of a car
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      07-09-2007, 05:55 PM   #37
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Cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
1) Thanks.
2) You are completely uninformed to post this point.
3) Ever heard of Coilovers, Forged wheels, and Quaife LSD's?
4) I'd rather the price roll up to get what is needed than to dumb down to hit a price point on a halo car.
I'm clever as well, of course I have heard of all the wonderful AFTERMARKET parts and companies you have listed. However, I am not uniformed. We just have a different opinion. Have you heard of M differential (OEM by BMW), EDC (also OEM by BMW) and FORGED 19" wheels (again by BMW). My point is not that BMW is always better than aftermarket, just that the M3 is a system, designed to work as such. I would never claim you can't modify a 335i to outperform an M3 is some areas but I'd bet pink slips you can't do it is MOST areas for LESS than the M3 will cost. Sure you'll be able to get close. But then there is always the warranty, loss of resale, reliability and compromises in many other areas that come along with modding. I'd rather start with a solid foundation than mod extensively (been there, done that). Either platform luckily offers and excellent starting point for modifications. Have fun with your 335i "project" and let us know how it goes.
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      07-09-2007, 06:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
I would love to see a 450HP, 380TQ 3200 lb M3 for $60K well equipped.
If wishes were fishes we would all have a great fry. Problem is, the numbers you are stating don't add up. The above car would whip a GT3 RS and cost... well proportionally more than a GT3 RS.

Last edited by ruff; 07-09-2007 at 07:38 PM.
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      07-09-2007, 07:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobizach View Post
Dont make the assumption that "ALL" of us sitting on the otherside of the fence are just blind BMW Lemmings Alot of us are car enthusiasts as well who just want to see and judge the darn thing for ourselfs and not thru HEARSAY which btw is the only card those haters have at this point. For most of the "Haters" they take for gospel all the negatives from these few very early pre-reviews (not full on roadtests mind you) while leaving out any positives. And then repeat them over and over all over the place, so who are the real "lemmings" here that blindly ate something?

Everyone knows from every past release of a new car (IE GT3)no matter the make "MOST" (im not saying all) haters are just sad little people who never had any intention of ever buying the car for whatever reason, couldnt afford one, jealousy, rival car or no reason at all etc.. etc... They just enjoy spreading negativity.

Now there are some enthusiasts on both sides that have concerns I dont doubt that.

Disregarding everything though. The car hasnt been released yet.. NUFF SAID.
Haters and lovers are in effect the same.
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      07-09-2007, 07:06 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
OMG I am really stunned you would even go here (again...) This crap post so typifies "knee jerk" reaction. Aren't you so proud and clever that you knew then and know now how crap the new M is and how much better a modded 335i will be. Give me a freaking break.

1. Yes you are smart, the good old M boys sure didn't fool you with this junker.
2. You can't build a 335i into an M beater that will beat it in a majority of counts for less than the M3 will cost. Just my opinion and educated guess but it just ain't gonna happen. Either way we both need to wait until there are actual test specs. Maybe you could point out the exact new information that has led you to conclude you were right all along - WE DON'T HAVE ANY. The only real new data I have heard about is that the new M3 out sprints the F360 from 0-1000m (WITHOUT DCT!).
3.Yeah that 335i you love so much is really "hard-core". Look I like the car, a lot, but it is so marshmellow compared to the M. Christ many of the suspension bushings in the new M3 are metal as opposed to elastomer. That is hardcore. No matter where you start with the 335i it will be hard to part with its inheirent marshmellow characteristics. Sure you can take its amazing track times and improve them tons with software alone, that still won't make it feel much less marshmellow.
4. You can't build an M3 with the specs you outlined, "well equipped" for $60k that would actually sell in volume. It just can't be done. May be harsh but wake up and smell the engineering and the comprimise.

Ending this post with my most commonly used ending in the last week......


UGH!
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      07-09-2007, 07:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
The irony is that the “haters” are actually the enthusiasts that care and don’t blindly eat what is put on the table. I have posted negative comments hopping that BMW will read my comments and realise that we aren’t all Lemmings that buy on reputation. I personally am looking forward to taking delivery. Why are we called “haters” when we are the true lovers?

+1. I think a lot of people are really wishing the M3 can be more that what it is.
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      07-10-2007, 08:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
I hope everyone are happy when it turns out that both C63, RS4 and IS-F offer better handling and a better driving experience than the new M3 .
...a better driving experience than the new M3

um? you do realise both C63 and ISF will have Auto boxes only.
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      07-10-2007, 11:32 AM   #43
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If you don't like the new M3 than don't get it! Instead get an C63 CLK63 ISF RS4 RS5 or what ever you'll be happy with, but be sure of one thing. When the new ~DSG M3~ comes out you will be very sorry. Because on the streets tracks or anywhere we E92 M3 owners gonna whoop your ass
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      07-10-2007, 11:33 AM   #44
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Look at the difference between manual and dsg, and you can expect something more special from bmw

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