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      03-21-2012, 02:16 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt View Post
I am posting this on behalf of Jordan as he does not have a M3Post username.



Guys, I appreciate everyone's concern in this matter and you all are absolutely correct in saying that this is a major issue that is absolutely unacceptable. My own wife drives around every single day with the same 22" Step Lip rim halves along with my 4 year old and 1 year old baby boys in the back seat. Nothing in the world other than my family matters to and I'm sure that most of you feel exactly the same way. With that being said I was obviously very concerned when I first heard about the issue which was in mid 2011 on order number 1897, 22" ADV08 Track Spec's for a Mercedes ML63 AMG. At that time, the issue had never been seen and obviously we discussed the cause in detail with Mike at Triangle, our engineer, and multiple others to identify the issue and ensure that it's not repeated. At that time, the final verdict from Mike at Triangle was that the issue was due to an issue related to machining / engineering and not the inner barrel. Regardless we obviously checked every last detail on the file and physically checked the center discs themselves to confirm that this was the case which we actually had hoped it was as this is something internal that we can identify and correct ourselves and easily see if any other sets shared the issue. After doing so, we were unable to verify that this was the case as everything was exactly as it should have been. Mike then, replaced the parts for us at no cost, we finished and assembled the set with new hardware as always and advised our dealer of the issue in detail as they explained previously that the vehicle was driven aggressively and could have potentially been the cause in which case moving forward they would be driving under only normal conditions and would report to us if any problems occurred. At the time, no one really knew what the cause was so it was up in the air with possible causes ranging from chrome plating to improper use and several others. Mike did provide us with a detailed statement outlining what was his opinion on the cause which nowaym3 is referring to as he most likely was working at Triangle at the time and was aware of this. Regardless, what he or she is saying is true and was the case at that time.


Moving forward a few months, after keeping tabs on the first issue on the ML63 set and confirming that the issue seemed to have been solved we basically had nothing else to review as there was no final confirmation as to what caused the issue and no identifiable reasons to change anything moving forward as everything was engineered to spec and physically confirmed. I can assure you guys, even though many of you seem to have a preconceived opinion about me which is perfectly ok however this business isn't made for short term success, my own family and the families of nearly 20 of our staff depend on this company and treat it like their own. With this being said, ignoring an issue like this which could potentially cause a huge impact on any company if not resolved it was in not only my own interest to make sure that it's not going to happen again but everyone on ADV.1 staff, Triangle staff and MHT's staff. These are not issues that are ignored and had it been something that potentially could have recurred all parties involved would have stopped production on the affected parts until the issue was resolved. Many of you make comments as if we build all of our wheels with no regard to safety or quality which as you all know if were true we wouldn't be in business right now. Some of those who seem eager to offer their expertise on this matter jump at the opportunity to point out such an issue, although we all appreciate the information it's obvious that pointing this information out is in their best interest. Once again, perfectly fine - nothing we haven't dealt with in the past. I can see how something like this would be amazing news to any of our competitors unfortunately, but not surprisingly.

Had this been the end of the issue, the statements made by nowaym3 may have been valid however this person may not be involved with the more recent activity in this matter which arose in 2012. Order 2169, ordered for a BMW x6M in 22" ADV5.0 Track Spec configuration was reported to have the same issue. Upon learning about this issue personally on Feb 13, 2012 I contacted the client directly to get the details, apologize and get this issue resolved once and for all. I immediately had the wheels picked up and shipped to our facility in CA. I booked a flight the same day and was in the shop to inspect them once they arrived. At that time myself and some of our production related staff took the wheels to Mike ourselves in order to resolve and identify the issue once and for all. Around the same time, this particular order in question (1797) was also reported and was discussed. By that time it was clear that there were no issues with the center discs themselves, no engineering similarities that could have linked the 3 sets to the issue, they were used in different widths and offsets from low to high and on 3 different vehicles so all signs pointed to the one possible factor that they all had in common which was the inner barrel, all of which was the same size (22x7.5 and 22x8 inners) all 3 orders were confirmed to have these inners delivered around the same time frame and Mike himself confirmed that these parts were an older style step lip which was no longer used and also was a possible batch of parts which may have been outsourced to another vendor for the heat treating process which was not the usual protocol for reasons I'm not aware of.


With this all being said, the issues are clearly apparent. They are identified, isolated and resolved. The issue is clearly an unforeseen case of only 12 parts out of literally thousands that have been used not only by ADV.1 but by any 3 piece wheel manufacturer who buys 22" step lip parts. We will continue to support Triangle and work with them on a daily basis not only to improve but also because those who know are well aware that there are no better parts that can be found anywhere in the world and this is why we use them as do other high quality wheel brands.


In regards to Eugene's issues with communication and service from ADV.1, I have no argument here. I completely agree with you and apologize for this and I assure you the issue has not gone unnoticed and the sales rep involved has also expressed his apologies. Regardless, you're right and had I been aware of the issue directly I would have been extremely involved personally as I was and still am on the other 2 cases which both customers can confirm I'm sure. In any case, it doesn't matter at this point - you're not satisfied with your service and there's nothing more to it. All I can do is offer you one of 2 things should you wish to accept, one being a full refund on these wheels which you may choose to keep them if you would like or leave them here, either way is ok or alternatively although I doubt you'd like to have another set of our wheels due to the circumstance, I will offer you a free set of your choice - applicable to any car, any style, any finish, any time.

- Jordan
I'm a customer service snob and I really like this response.

-Our fault
-We could have handled it better
-Here is everything we know about the failure
-We will do anything to make it right at a financial loss to our company

Hopefully the ADV1 hate squad will not drop a transmission on my door step now.
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      03-21-2012, 02:17 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by acuteperformance View Post
because they look good?
when the form isn't parallel to the function and could possibly kill you then who cares.. oem few
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      03-21-2012, 02:22 PM   #201
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I'm rolling at all of the people in here just trying to start shit without any respect to either the OP or the company.

OP, sorry to hear this happened and hopefully it gets resolved. It looks like they are working to help you though.
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      03-21-2012, 02:25 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I'm rolling at all of the people in here just trying to start shit without any respect to either the OP or the company.
Sure the forum is full of sharks who see this type of thread and its like chum in the water...... immediately making wild generalizations, mis-statements and gross factual errors..about right on par with what I have seen here the last 3 yrs
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      03-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Sure the forum is full of sharks who see this type of thread and its like chum in the water...... immediately making wild generalizations, mis-statements and gross factual errors..about right on par with what I have seen here the last 3 yrs
Agreed, there's a lot of good stuff in here, but a lot of bad info too.

Hopefully people can wade through the BS and find the info that matters. And I really hope the OP's situation is rectified soon. I agree with what someone said earlier, a mod needs to come in here and clean some of this up.
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      03-21-2012, 03:12 PM   #204
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who was right?

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Originally Posted by nowaym3 View Post
I agree things fail all the time, and that's how products get better. But when you make something that is incorrect from the beginning, get warned about it, have failures and still refuse to rectify the problem. WHO'S Fault is that. Adv1 makes nice looking wheels, they really do. But In fact the actual quality is sub par on their best day. They could have EASILY fixed the issue by changing their machining program but decided not to. This problem is frustrating because it puts people's lives at risk all because someone is either A. Lazy or B. pinching pennies not wanting to machine new centers. Mike from Triangle in a very professional way stated that "I'm not going to throw you under the bus but... I fucking told you".



Jordan-
At that time, the final verdict from Mike at Triangle was that the issue was due to an issue related to machining / engineering and not the inner barrel. Regardless we obviously checked every last detail on the file and physically checked the center discs themselves to confirm that this was the case which we actually had hoped it was as this is something internal that we can identify and correct ourselves and easily see if any other sets shared the issue.
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      03-21-2012, 03:27 PM   #205
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Without placing blame or taking blame the owner of the company has went above and beyond to rectify the situation.

Everyone remember the situation with rennen and the cracked wheel??

This is why you pay more for some wheels that are made in the same place as other wheels because of how they are stood behind.

No matter what the issue is I would be finding any orders that may have whatever the issue is and resolving them instead of them contacting you with a similar situation.
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      03-21-2012, 03:27 PM   #206
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I clearly left this thread way too early...
Clearly.
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      03-21-2012, 03:55 PM   #207
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Tom Van Ryn.
ADV.1 Head Engineer
Tom's interest in cars started with Hot Wheels before he even started school. He moved on to drawing them on every notebook he had during school, usually when he should have been doing some actual schoolwork.

In early 2001 he moved it into 3D, spending days without eating or sleeping, teaching himself this new way to "draw". Wheels became his favorite thing to model, but doing it for a living was just a dream at the time. Fast-forward a bit, over some really forgettable jobs doing some extremely boring things, and he finally has his dream job, designing and engineering, and pushing the boundaries of the wheel industry using the worlds most exotic vehicles as a canvas!

Now, if he could just get a company car...


So this is your engineer? Any schooling? Is he a P.E.? Does he even have an engineering degree? Where does his knowledge of structural integrity come from? He sounds to me more like a designer. Sorry for all the questions i'm just trying to figure out who actually is responsible for the safety and integrity of your wheels.
I just want these questions answered and I'll go quietly. It's just kind of funny that ADV was so quick to respond to my earlier posts but some how these questions went unanswered. I have a feeling I know why...
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      03-21-2012, 03:58 PM   #208
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Quote:
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I just want these questions answered and I'll go quietly. It's just kind of funny that ADV was so quick to respond to my earlier posts but some how these questions went unanswered. I have a feeling I know why...
I hear you although the people who actually work there and respond here are in FL so they could just be close to or past quitting time.
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      03-21-2012, 04:01 PM   #209
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I hear you although the people who actually work there and respond here are in FL so they could just be close to or past quitting time.
I would love to think that except they were all over responding to my posts and as soon as I asked about the engineer, crickets...
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      03-21-2012, 04:02 PM   #210
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This is more than a fair offer...
agree,this should be called good customer service.
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      03-21-2012, 04:03 PM   #211
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      03-21-2012, 04:04 PM   #212
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I would love to think that except they were all over responding to my posts and as soon as I asked about the engineer, crickets...
Agreed again. Maybe they are buying him his credentials from the same place Obama got his birth certificate. HAHA!
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      03-21-2012, 04:09 PM   #213
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I just want these questions answered and I'll go quietly. It's just kind of funny that ADV was so quick to respond to my earlier posts but some how these questions went unanswered. I have a feeling I know why...
I do not feel that you have to have an engineering degree to make wheels that are structurally safe and sound as most software can test this in FEA and obvious physical testing can prove if you got the job done.

But do not call the guy head engineer if he does not have a engineering degree.
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      03-21-2012, 05:16 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt View Post
I am posting this on behalf of Jordan as he does not have a M3Post username.



Guys, I appreciate everyone's concern in this matter and you all are absolutely correct in saying that this is a major issue that is absolutely unacceptable. My own wife drives around every single day with the same 22" Step Lip rim halves along with my 4 year old and 1 year old baby boys in the back seat. Nothing in the world other than my family matters to and I'm sure that most of you feel exactly the same way. With that being said I was obviously very concerned when I first heard about the issue which was in mid 2011 on order number 1897, 22" ADV08 Track Spec's for a Mercedes ML63 AMG. At that time, the issue had never been seen and obviously we discussed the cause in detail with Mike at Triangle, our engineer, and multiple others to identify the issue and ensure that it's not repeated. At that time, the final verdict from Mike at Triangle was that the issue was due to an issue related to machining / engineering and not the inner barrel. Regardless we obviously checked every last detail on the file and physically checked the center discs themselves to confirm that this was the case which we actually had hoped it was as this is something internal that we can identify and correct ourselves and easily see if any other sets shared the issue. After doing so, we were unable to verify that this was the case as everything was exactly as it should have been. Mike then, replaced the parts for us at no cost, we finished and assembled the set with new hardware as always and advised our dealer of the issue in detail as they explained previously that the vehicle was driven aggressively and could have potentially been the cause in which case moving forward they would be driving under only normal conditions and would report to us if any problems occurred. At the time, no one really knew what the cause was so it was up in the air with possible causes ranging from chrome plating to improper use and several others. Mike did provide us with a detailed statement outlining what was his opinion on the cause which nowaym3 is referring to as he most likely was working at Triangle at the time and was aware of this. Regardless, what he or she is saying is true and was the case at that time.


Moving forward a few months, after keeping tabs on the first issue on the ML63 set and confirming that the issue seemed to have been solved we basically had nothing else to review as there was no final confirmation as to what caused the issue and no identifiable reasons to change anything moving forward as everything was engineered to spec and physically confirmed. I can assure you guys, even though many of you seem to have a preconceived opinion about me which is perfectly ok however this business isn't made for short term success, my own family and the families of nearly 20 of our staff depend on this company and treat it like their own. With this being said, ignoring an issue like this which could potentially cause a huge impact on any company if not resolved it was in not only my own interest to make sure that it's not going to happen again but everyone on ADV.1 staff, Triangle staff and MHT's staff. These are not issues that are ignored and had it been something that potentially could have recurred all parties involved would have stopped production on the affected parts until the issue was resolved. Many of you make comments as if we build all of our wheels with no regard to safety or quality which as you all know if were true we wouldn't be in business right now. Some of those who seem eager to offer their expertise on this matter jump at the opportunity to point out such an issue, although we all appreciate the information it's obvious that pointing this information out is in their best interest. Once again, perfectly fine - nothing we haven't dealt with in the past. I can see how something like this would be amazing news to any of our competitors unfortunately, but not surprisingly.

Had this been the end of the issue, the statements made by nowaym3 may have been valid however this person may not be involved with the more recent activity in this matter which arose in 2012. Order 2169, ordered for a BMW x6M in 22" ADV5.0 Track Spec configuration was reported to have the same issue. Upon learning about this issue personally on Feb 13, 2012 I contacted the client directly to get the details, apologize and get this issue resolved once and for all. I immediately had the wheels picked up and shipped to our facility in CA. I booked a flight the same day and was in the shop to inspect them once they arrived. At that time myself and some of our production related staff took the wheels to Mike ourselves in order to resolve and identify the issue once and for all. Around the same time, this particular order in question (1797) was also reported and was discussed. By that time it was clear that there were no issues with the center discs themselves, no engineering similarities that could have linked the 3 sets to the issue, they were used in different widths and offsets from low to high and on 3 different vehicles so all signs pointed to the one possible factor that they all had in common which was the inner barrel, all of which was the same size (22x7.5 and 22x8 inners) all 3 orders were confirmed to have these inners delivered around the same time frame and Mike himself confirmed that these parts were an older style step lip which was no longer used and also was a possible batch of parts which may have been outsourced to another vendor for the heat treating process which was not the usual protocol for reasons I'm not aware of.


With this all being said, the issues are clearly apparent. They are identified, isolated and resolved. The issue is clearly an unforeseen case of only 12 parts out of literally thousands that have been used not only by ADV.1 but by any 3 piece wheel manufacturer who buys 22" step lip parts. We will continue to support Triangle and work with them on a daily basis not only to improve but also because those who know are well aware that there are no better parts that can be found anywhere in the world and this is why we use them as do other high quality wheel brands.


In regards to Eugene's issues with communication and service from ADV.1, I have no argument here. I completely agree with you and apologize for this and I assure you the issue has not gone unnoticed and the sales rep involved has also expressed his apologies. Regardless, you're right and had I been aware of the issue directly I would have been extremely involved personally as I was and still am on the other 2 cases which both customers can confirm I'm sure. In any case, it doesn't matter at this point - you're not satisfied with your service and there's nothing more to it. All I can do is offer you one of 2 things should you wish to accept, one being a full refund on these wheels which you may choose to keep them if you would like or leave them here, either way is ok or alternatively although I doubt you'd like to have another set of our wheels due to the circumstance, I will offer you a free set of your choice - applicable to any car, any style, any finish, any time.

- Jordan

Here are a few of my comments in no particular order:

1. Things go wrong, and it's up to the sales rep and maunfacturer to handle these types of issues. I believe that Matt has recognized the problem, made some concessions on behalf of his company, and really stepped up by clarifying
his position to everyone here at the forum.

2. Clear communication is paramount is resolving any issue, and by that I mean both sides of the table need to communicate clearly. Sometimes publicly, and also by PM.

3. After reading practically every post regarding this issue, it sounds as though bringing it to the forum was very helpful is resolving the issue.

4. I'm glad that nobody was hurt by this wheel failure, and that it was caught in time.

5. This forum is very helpful to all of us who enjoy our cars with like minded people from all over the world. State your points of view based on experience, refrain from insulting people and be patient to people who don't have as much experience as you.

Just me 2 cents...
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      03-21-2012, 07:22 PM   #215
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They rent space in MHT's building and the wheels are machined on MHT's machines. They can walk out of there part of the facility at any given moment and see what is being machined.

I think attacking the issue that they do not machine there own wheels is a dead horse. HRE although they machine there own centers does not manufacture the rim halves or make the raw forging. But they carry a large inventory so if there is an issue like this it can be handled quickly.


The issue here is WHY the failure and how it is handled.

Is the failure due to an engineering issue?

Why does it take so long to recieve a replacement part and could this process moved along faster with a order for more than 1 or 2 parts.
Don't make light of that fact HRE has their own facilities and machines all their wheels in house. This is a HUGE difference. Separate the pretenders from the contenders. ADV's spamming of all internet forums does seem to sell wheels.
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      03-21-2012, 07:27 PM   #216
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Bottom line
If you don't like/trust the ADV designer
And you think their quality sucks
Just buy something else
Are you forced to buy their products?
Take your hard earned money elsewhere

It's very obvious that a few people on this thread have a bone to pick with ADV and have shown zero objectivity

They have already offered to give him a full refund AFTER his warranty expired AND he gets to keep the wheels
What more do you want??

My feeling is those very same people don't want the issue resolved and just want to feel like tough guys behind their keyboards
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      03-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Bottom line
If you don't like/trust the ADV designer
And you think their quality sucks
Just buy something else
Are you forced to buy their products?
Take your hard earned money elsewhere

It's very obvious that a few people on this thread have a bone to pick with ADV and have shown zero objectivity

They have already offered to give him a full refund AFTER his warranty expired AND he gets to keep the wheels
What more do you want??

My feeling is those very same people don't want the issue resolved and just want to feel like tough guys behind their keyboards
Nicely summed up
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      03-21-2012, 07:30 PM   #218
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Quote:
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Don't make light of that fact HRE has their own facilities and machines all their wheels in house. This is a HUGE difference. Separate the pretenders from the contenders. ADV's spamming of all internet forums does seem to sell wheels.
Do you want to talk about how HRE equipped cars were banned from a number of major race tracks and organizations in the mid 2000s due to a rash of failures?

Every wheel company has failures.

EDIT - I should add that although those statements were made by a very well respected instructor and member of Audiworld, I do not believe they were ever adequately substantiated.

Nevertheless, it is not difficult to find instances of HRE wheel failures...or really any manufacturer for that matter.

Last edited by Singletrack; 03-21-2012 at 11:45 PM.
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      03-21-2012, 07:32 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Nicely summed up
I wanted to add "shit happens" but that didn't go down well last time
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      03-21-2012, 08:03 PM   #220
MatthewDavid
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I had to read Jordan's response twice, as I was pleasantly surprised. Though I think ADV's PR sensibility is lacking, in my opinion, this response is finally what people want from the company; honesty, transparency, humility, and professionalism. Jordan et al, if you handle all the situations publicly like this, then perhaps there's hope for your company's image.

Matt, take note of how your boss laid it out. And stop saying things like "Period. End of story". When has that ever worked for you? This thread is 11 pages long. Ha
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