heres my take

[Boostedg35]

i think the 335i is to blame and here is my reasoning.. never before has bmw had such a great perfomer like the 335i. i ask you this if the 335i wasnt available would the m3 be taking as much gripe? think about this for a second. its a great car just faster then the 335i and probably the best bet for 60k. with the 335i right under the price range of the m3 one has to ask is the little upgrade in performance and looks reasoning to spend the extra 10k? i think the magazines were expecting something far more performance oriented over the 335i but lets get real if the m3 was any quicker it would be priced well out of our price range.

bmw is doing what it can to stay competitive with the is350 and g37 by making the 335i. but by doing that they are bringing the market really close to the m3 sales and that means they either need to price the m3 out of the price range inteded to make it WAY FASTER or make it slightly faster and offer things to keep it where they want it?

so my take is this without the 335i the m3 is the undesputed king but with the 335i bmw now has a slight problem with pricing and marketing the m3 so thats were we are now.


what are you thoughts

[Romo]

As I stated before; the non ///M cars have reached a remarkeble high standard, the 335i is widly recocnised as the best all in package.
So this makes it verry difficult IMO to make a car that is just even better, now I know for sure the M3 is better, maybe not in a revolutionary way, but stil the best BMW can offer in this price range.
There is a difference, but it is getting smaller, when you think off it, it seems only logical IMO

[aerisolphaln]

Originally Posted by Romo

There is a difference, but it is getting smaller, when you think off it, it seems only logical IMO

And yet, I am sure that the price difference between 335 and e92 M3 will be just as great, if not greater than between 330 and e46 M3

[JEllis]

The 335i is a great car and probably one of the best 3 series to date. However, none of us have seen any solid performance numbers for the new M3 so we have no way to judge how much better the M3 is over the 335i. My guess, the M3 will run circles around the 335i but we will have to wait and see.

What your saying is along the lines of what has been said about the Porsche GT3 and 997S. The 997S is so good now, is there really a need for the GT3? My answer, hell yes...

Jason

[Robert]

Originally Posted by JEllis

The 335i is a great car and probably one of the best 3 series to date. However, none of us have seen any solid performance numbers for the new M3 so we have no way to judge how much better the M3 is over the 335i. My guess, the M3 will run circles around the 335i but we will have to wait and see.

What your saying is along the lines of what has been said about the Porsche GT3 and 997S. The 997S is so good now, is there really a need for the GT3? My answer, hell yes...

Jason

Isn't the GT3 a lot more purposeful? Its interior is gutted and it is a lot more track oriented than the standard 911. The step between the 335i and M3 isn't as dramatic as the step between GT3 and 911S. The M3 CSL is the equivalent of the GT3. So it's similar to Porsche creating a new 991 between the 911S and the GT3.

I am not disagreeing the m3 isn't a great car. It's probably my next car or the 335i, but I will spend a lot more time modding the 335i.

[FifthStreetz]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

And yet, I am sure that the price difference between 335 and e92 M3 will be just as great, if not greater than between 330 and e46 M3

Does anyone remember the price difference for the e46 330 and e46 M3?

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by Boostedg35

i think the 335i is to blame and here is my reasoning.. never before has bmw had such a great perfomer like the 335i. i ask you this if the 335i wasnt available would the m3 be taking as much gripe? think about this for a second. its a great car just faster then the 335i and probably the best bet for 60k. with the 335i right under the price range of the m3 one has to ask is the little upgrade in performance and looks reasoning to spend the extra 10k? i think the magazines were expecting something far more performance oriented over the 335i but lets get real if the m3 was any quicker it would be priced well out of our price range.

bmw is doing what it can to stay competitive with the is350 and g37 by making the 335i. but by doing that they are bringing the market really close to the m3 sales and that means they either need to price the m3 out of the price range inteded to make it WAY FASTER or make it slightly faster and offer things to keep it where they want it?

so my take is this without the 335i the m3 is the undesputed king but with the 335i bmw now has a slight problem with pricing and marketing the m3 so thats were we are now.


what are you thoughts

the new M3 is just fine, BUT the C63 would have given it some serious spanking anyway, even if the 335 wasnt around.
Dont forget that the M3 needed to perform better than the e46 M3, and at least as good as other M-models.
also, dont forget the RS5 too.

[JEllis]

Isn't the GT3 a lot more purposeful? Its interior is gutted and it is a lot more track oriented than the standard 911. The step between the 335i and M3 isn't as dramatic as the step between GT3 and 911S. The M3 CSL is the equivalent of the GT3. So it's similar to Porsche creating a new 991 between the 911S and the GT3.

I am not disagreeing the m3 isn't a great car. It's probably my next car or the 335i, but I will spend a lot more time modding the 335i.
Today 01:14 PM

Yeah my analogy is not the greatest. But that being said the differences between the 335i and M3 are not small. The differences between the M3 and 335i show the biggest differences between the M and reg 3series to date. The new M has a totally different suspension utilizing hollowed out and forged aluminum parts, forged aluminum driveshaft, a totally different engine, tranny, no shared body panels, different driver/pass seats, a lower center of gravity, a rear diff, and probably a ton of crap I am not thinking of. In some ways the new M3 is a lot like the GT3 of the 3series in that IT IS more purposeful and doesnt share much with the rest of the line. Every change is to add performance, not take it way. Many of the new parts either increase performance (high revving V8) or remove weight (CF roof, a host of forged aluminum parts). Its hard to understand why people dont just assume the M3 is going to post great performance numbers and be just as superior to the 3 series as all other M3's? I guess we will all just have to wait for the performance numbers and comparo's to come.

Jason

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by bobbo

Isn't the GT3 a lot more purposeful? Its interior is gutted and it is a lot more track oriented than the standard 911. The step between the 335i and M3 isn't as dramatic as the step between GT3 and 911S. The M3 CSL is the equivalent of the GT3. So it's similar to Porsche creating a new 991 between the 911S and the GT3.

I am not disagreeing the m3 isn't a great car. It's probably my next car or the 335i, but I will spend a lot more time modding the 335i.

The GT3's interior isn't gutted, unless you call deletion of the back seats gutting. I haven't driven a 997 S so I can't compare it to the GT3, but I have driven a base 997 Carrera. Compared to the 997 GT3, it feels completely different. My first thoughts on driving the base Carrera was "feels like a cruiser" and "why would anyone pay $75K for this?" There just was nothing about it that felt really sporting or special. I have to say I was disappointed. I preferred the feel of the Cayman S to the base Carrera by far, even though it didn't have quite the torque of the 997 C. The GT3 in comparison, feels incredibly planted at speed, solid everywhere, and has the best steering feel of any car I've ever driven. The engine shakes and snarls... it is the complete package... a useable supercar that can also be civilized, even "luxurious." At a base of $106K, I think it's incredible bang for the buck! Not sure how easy they are to get now though... I heard there would be very few cars for 2008.

[The CSL]

I don't know for sure, but I imagine had M made the new car in a way more dedicated to enthusiast levels of handling rather than everyday liveability, then it would have been clear cut, the new genius is in session and he brings things to the party the 335i couldn't dream of. Trouble is, it would seem unless you're taking the new M3 to very high levels of cornering, the 335i is so competent that the difference isn't as marked as it used to be.

Anyone agree?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

The GT3's interior isn't gutted, unless you call deletion of the back seats gutting.

The GT3 doesn't have a back seat? I thought only the GT3 RS and GT2 (996)ditched the back seats?

[M3onTwomps]

Man, I can't wait for the official comparisons to come out.

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The GT3 doesn't have a back seat? I thought only the GT3 RS and GT2 (996)ditched the back seats?

Here is a view of the inside rear, taken from the driver's seat.... (kind of hard to tell much) but, there's just carpeting. The GT3 RS Euro-spec adds a roll cage....

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

The GT3's interior isn't gutted, unless you call deletion of the back seats gutting. I haven't driven a 997 S so I can't compare it to the GT3, but I have driven a base 997 Carrera. Compared to the 997 GT3, it feels completely different. My first thoughts on driving the base Carrera was "feels like a cruiser" and "why would anyone pay $75K for this?" There just was nothing about it that felt really sporting or special. I have to say I was disappointed. I preferred the feel of the Cayman S to the base Carrera by far, even though it didn't have quite the torque of the 997 C. The GT3 in comparison, feels incredibly planted at speed, solid everywhere, and has the best steering feel of any car I've ever driven. The engine shakes and snarls... it is the complete package... a useable supercar that can also be civilized, even "luxurious." At a base of $106K, I think it's incredible bang for the buck! Not sure how easy they are to get now though... I heard there would be very few cars for 2008.

Agree. GT3's are hard to get and about impossible for $110K or less.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

Does anyone remember the price difference for the e46 330 and e46 M3?

I don't recall exact figures, but for MY2006, the last year of both cars, it was roughly:

$37,600 for the 330ci
$48,600 for the M3

IOW, the M3 was $11,000 or about 30% more than the 330ci. The 335i is about $41,000 so unless the new M3 is only about $53,000 (not very likely) it will command a higher preminum percentage-wise than the old one did.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

Here is a view of the inside rear, taken from the driver's seat.... (kind of hard to tell much) but, there's just carpeting. The GT3 RS Euro-spec adds a roll cage....

What, there is carpeting in the GT3!? Porsche has gone way too soft! I'm gonna start a petition (never mind the fact that I've never driven a GT3)!!!!!

[ruff]

Originally Posted by The CSL

I don't know for sure, but I imagine had M made the new car in a way more dedicated to enthusiast levels of handling rather than everyday liveability, then it would have been clear cut, the new genius is in session and he brings things to the party the 335i couldn't dream of. Trouble is, it would seem unless you're taking the new M3 to very high levels of cornering, the 335i is so competent that the difference isn't as marked as it used to be.

Anyone agree?

People forget that there are cars out of the box that are great track cars and good daily drivers ie - Vettes and Porsches. It doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other. Thats what makes these cars such great cars.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

Here is a view of the inside rear, taken from the driver's seat.... (kind of hard to tell much) but, there's just carpeting. The GT3 RS Euro-spec adds a roll cage....

Thanks, I guess that's confirmation enough.

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by lucid

What, there is carpeting in the GT3!? Porsche has gone way too soft! I'm gonna start a petition (never mind the fact that I've never driven a GT3)!!!!!

!!

That's what the early reviews and naysayers said about the 997 GT3 too! Ohhh... and a SUNROOF?!?!?!?!?

Then the performance figures and lap times came out.....

[The CSL]

That must be a very american attitude to the GT3, because I remember nothing but positives before it was launched on this side of the pond, with Autocar's first drive (alongside the M6 I was driven in a few days before) saying that the PASM and Sport Chrono made it a better car than the old one.

[FifthStreetz]

Originally Posted by lucid

What, there is carpeting in the GT3!? Porsche has gone way too soft! I'm gonna start a petition (never mind the fact that I've never driven a GT3)!!!!!