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      07-06-2007, 10:32 AM   #23
JEllis
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TopGear just released their review and is much more informative and well written.

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      07-06-2007, 12:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
I'm really thinking twice about this car. This is the 2nd magazine which say the car is soft. This new M3 sounds like a Mercedes AMG. What gives? A couple more of these artical and i'm going with the 997 GT3.
Wow, if you can afford a 997 GT, then the M3 has little business on your shopping list.

M3 GTR all the way man. I wish I could afford $120k cars
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      07-06-2007, 01:40 PM   #25
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Wow, if you can afford a 997 GT, then the M3 has little business on your shopping list.

M3 GTR all the way man. I wish I could afford $120k cars
I had tried to find an allocation for an 08 GT3 but it is almost impossible. Perhaps you're right about going Porsche but I always wanted the M3 to be a V8 and now it has finally arrived. If it was only 3200lb like my old E36 this choice would have been a no brainer. With the current weight why even bother with the carbon roof? No matter how hi-tech this car is, you cannot fight against physics. BMW need to diet and need to buid the M3 with the 1 series chassis. The current E92 chassis is considered a midsize car back in 1990's standrad. The 3 series was suppose to be compact. Now almost as large as the 5 series.

I'm still waiting for a positive article about the car rather than talk about CSL. This is telling me that the car needs to be more hardcore rather than AMG like.
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      07-06-2007, 11:57 PM   #26
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+1

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Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
The problem (if that's what we should call it) is that writers are not engineers (thank God) and use pseudo-scientific language to give their subjective opinions e.g. "precision" means different things to different people.... "6/10" sounds objective, but is completely meaningless since we don't know what the scale is - I don't know whether he gave 5/10 to the F430 or gave 7/10 to his canal barge!
+1, nicely put, agree completely.
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      07-07-2007, 02:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
The problem (if that's what we should call it) is that writers are not engineers (thank God) and use pseudo-scientific language to give their subjective opinions e.g. "precision" means different things to different people.... "6/10" sounds objective, but is completely meaningless since we don't know what the scale is - I don't know whether he gave 5/10 to the F430 or gave 7/10 to his canal barge!

I'm happy to listen to SteveD until someone writes something that makes sense.
Thank God they are not engineers otherwise we won't understand a word they say. Especially those offshore engineers in India.
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      07-07-2007, 04:24 PM   #28
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Steve Sutcliffe has posted some further thoughts on his Blog and here are my thoughts in response;

http://www.myautocar.com/community/b...og&sblogId=c4M

Sutcliffe's blog is much more telling than the published article. Bear in mind we only got back from the test on Wednesday (I travelled back on the same plane as Sutcliffe) and its all been a bit of a frenzy to post up a quick review.

I have said earlier on in my posts that we (i.e. EVO) were a little dissapointed initially, not because there was anything wrong with the car but because in several areas it met rather than exceeded our expectations.

It was only a few days later that we reflected on what else BMW could have done to exceed them. Not a lot really, the only area where they may have underperformed is the brakes, but even then I'd like to drive a UK spec car over familiar routes to draw a proper judgement. The brakes on the E92 M3 are massive compared with the E46 M3, so BMW haven't been slacking in terms of adding braking performance, my issue is more with their dogged approach to following the sliding caliper route.

The E92 M3 handles and steers as well as the E46, in many ways better since steering was never an E46 strong suit and it had too much body roll and intertia in the turns. But ultimately the E92 M3 is just an evolution on dynamically from the E46 M3, in much the same way that an E92 330i is from an E46 330i. Better but not considerably so. Engine wise it's streets ahead of the E46, BMW have developed a real corker.

Sutcliffe's other comment about economy also has some truth, we managed 11mpg, but none of us was ever driving it gently enough to get a true sense of its thirst in daily use. And that means neither EVO, nor Autocar, nor CAR really know the answer to that yet.

So I ask the doubters is the problem that BMW failed to stun us in every measurable area? Or do we just have expectations that are unrealistic? What would another few levels up from the E46 'feel like'? And perhaps that level would only be possible if the car weighed 200kg lighter. So, did BMW build a 1655kg car because they were lazy or because we asked them to? Think about that. I did, and after an initial dissapointment I began to conclude that they'd actually done a pretty good job.
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      07-07-2007, 04:42 PM   #29
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Steved, do/does BMW take into account the press impressions and make tweaks on cars before they formally release them?
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      07-07-2007, 04:45 PM   #30
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Not unless they have made a BIG mistake, and judging by the smiles from most journalists as they talked to the BMW officials afterwards that wasn't the impression conveyed.
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      07-08-2007, 09:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
Steve Sutcliffe has posted some further thoughts on his Blog and here are my thoughts in response;

http://www.myautocar.com/community/b...og&sblogId=c4M

Thanks for the link. 11mpg is not bad considering i'm averaging 14mph in my car now. Not being 10 of 10 for best M3 ever, i'm quite dissappointed. From all the review for the GT3 there was not much complaints in terms of handing and driving feel. Perhaps, I should withdraw my deposit for the M3. I do believe the new M3 is a good car but not as good as we all expected .

OT: does the GT3 sound as good as the new M3?
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      07-08-2007, 09:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post

OT: does the GT3 sound as good as the new M3?
Very different sound, but I would say equally as desirable. That's the kind of conclusion that its worth considering for a moment, the new M3 is fitted with an engine that is equally as powerful/torquey as the 997 GT3 and sounds just as evocative.
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      07-08-2007, 10:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
Steve Sutcliffe has posted some further thoughts on his Blog and here are my thoughts in response;

http://www.myautocar.com/community/b...og&sblogId=c4M

So it get's an 8.8 out of 10 on the all-time genius scale, but it's fuel economy is awful. Especially given all the *efficient dynamics* rhetoric.

This is underwhelming for what the M3 has been in the past.
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      07-08-2007, 03:14 PM   #34
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If BMW had some balls, they would have developped a brand new I6 say 3.5 with 370hp at 8500rpm and worked harder to reduce weight. While the 335iS ZHP would have been used to fill the GT niche.
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      07-08-2007, 03:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
If BMW had some balls, they would have developped a brand new I6 say 3.5 with 370hp at 8500rpm and worked harder to reduce weight. While the 335iS ZHP would have been used to fill the GT niche.
True for the hardcore sportscar lovers, but a verry bad idea concerning marketing principels. With competition everywere around, 370HP wouldn`t be sufficient at all, even if weight was reduced.
I agree, the 6 inline is the typical BMW engine, it made BMW what it is today. I also have strong believes it was the hardest dicision for ///M people to let go off the 6 inline and move forward to the V8. But the company has to sell cars obviously, and share holders are the ones with real power, more than ///M power that is................
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      07-08-2007, 03:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
If BMW had some balls, they would have developped a brand new I6 say 3.5 with 370hp at 8500rpm and worked harder to reduce weight. While the 335iS ZHP would have been used to fill the GT niche.
Unlike the RS4's 4.2 engine, this new V8 doesn't actually sound or feel anything like a V8. As has been discussed many times before if they tried to build a 4 litre 6-cylinder engine they would have ended up with much larger pistons which would not have been able to attain the kinds of piston velocity that is the M-Division trade mark.
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      07-08-2007, 04:52 PM   #37
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So... don't build such a large I6... Reduce weight AND fuel consumption. BMW could have completely bypassed everybody and claimed it's light M3 was a "green" sports car while offering similiar performance to all those heavy cars. I mean it's not like Lotus Elise has suffered from having 180hp.
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      07-08-2007, 05:05 PM   #38
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If Porsche can get 415bhp from a six, why can't M?
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      07-08-2007, 06:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
So... don't build such a large I6... Reduce weight AND fuel consumption. BMW could have completely bypassed everybody and claimed it's light M3 was a "green" sports car while offering similiar performance to all those heavy cars. I mean it's not like Lotus Elise has suffered from having 180hp.
Sure, but if one is to consider the M3 to be a variant of the 3er, one seeks the same kind of build quality (i.e. BMW buyers don't want does that fall off if you lean on them too hard!)
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      07-08-2007, 06:31 PM   #40
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Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude View Post
If BMW had some balls, they would have developped a brand new I6 say 3.5 with 370hp at 8500rpm and worked harder to reduce weight. While the 335iS ZHP would have been used to fill the GT niche.
You should be head of product design and conception at BMW. I'd bet, with your brilliant ideas BMW products would tank, you bankrupt the company and we would never see another great M. Ugh.
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      07-08-2007, 07:17 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CSL View Post
If Porsche can get 415bhp from a six, why can't M?
I was thinking the same thing and then I remembered that 3.6L dry sump engine cost almost as much as a M3.

I was thinking the high Rev V8 ferrari F1 sound .
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      07-08-2007, 07:58 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CSL View Post
If Porsche can get 415bhp from a six, why can't M?
I am sure M can as well, but then the M3, like the GT3, would also cost $100k+. It takes $ to develop and manufacture such an engine...
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      07-08-2007, 10:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
I'm really thinking twice about this car. This is the 2nd magazine which say the car is soft. This new M3 sounds like a Mercedes AMG. What gives? A couple more of these artical and i'm going with the 997 GT3.
I have to LMAO at these kind of posts. If you could afford a GT3 and want one, why in the world would the M3 even be an after-thought? Not close to the same league.

Gimme a break.
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      07-08-2007, 10:53 PM   #44
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Quote:
If Porsche can get 415bhp from a six, why can't M?
BMW probably can, however, the car would probably cost over 100K (Porsche GT3 anyone)

Quote:
So I ask the doubters is the problem that BMW failed to stun us in every measurable area? Or do we just have expectations that are unrealistic? What would another few levels up from the E46 'feel like'? And perhaps that level would only be possible if the car weighed 200kg lighter. So, did BMW build a 1655kg car because they were lazy or because we asked them to? Think about that. I did, and after an initial dissapointment I began to conclude that they'd actually done a pretty good job.
Extremely well said.

Jason
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