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[ADV.1 Matt]

Matthew - I'm not trying to argue and I don't feel I've acted unprofessionally with anyone on this forum. However, please don't confuse me trying to address the blatantly false accusations being made about our company and product as trying to act unprofessional. I'm simply trying to interject a few facts into the discussion and like most "arguments" on internet forums no one ever gives up an inch on what they believe or what they've heard from their mothers brothers aunt's mailman about the topic regardless of actual firsthand knowledge of the topics discussed and things quickly spiral downward. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately but we NEVER call people out, act disrespectful, or try and berate members. Period. End of discussion.

Per Jordan's argument on L4P - It must've been before my time because we have a stellar reputation on that forum and no bad blood with anyone i've seen in my time with ADV.1. My job for the first 6 months was simply to be online forums and interact with communities, answer questions, etc and i've seen no evidence of that forum rejecting us. Again - i'm not trying to be disrespectful to you - simply stating that my experience hasn't been that and i've seen no evidence of that.

Now onto addressing the TUV certification more in depth and why only having one set certified for the M3 platform...

What we haven't been able to explain well enough apparently is that with TUV certification you can have a 20X8.5, 20X10.5 setup for the M3 that is built and TUV certified. Another wheel built next in line with the identical materials, in the same factory, on the same machine, at the same time, but running a 20X8.5, 20X11 M3 setup (or even an identical 20X8.5, 20X10.5 but with a different spoke design) is considered by TUV to be a completely different wheel and thus won't have certification.

From a structural and quality standpoint there is NO difference between the 20X10.5, and 20X11 wheel - the only difference is the paperwork. Our wheels haven't changed in their manufacturing process since day one which means getting all of our wheels TUV certified is simply a matter of paperwork.

This is why we've been able to achieve a TUV manufacturing certification and why now we can pump paperwork through on tons of wheels to make things official on anything our customers need TUV certified. But understand - paperwork or no paperwork the quality and safety of the wheels on the 20X11 wheel (or different spoke design wheel) isn't compromised simply because it doesn't have the paperwork. They are ALL made in accordance to TUV standards and have been since day one.

If that wasn't the case we would not have been able to achieve TUV manufacturing status. Now i'm sure someone at this point will say "But X company says their entire line is TUV certified". Most wheel manufactures that don't build custom offsets can do this simply because there is a finite amount of widths and offsets possible to achieve this. They may only offer a 19X8.5 19X10.5 in 4 offsets, and as such only have to certify 8 wheels to have that entire line TUV certified.

For us on the other hand as we can build ANY offset you'd like to have our entire lineup TUV certified we'd have to build and test a 19X10 +0, 19X10 +1, 19X10 +2, 19X10 +3, and on and on and on. And then after we certified 150 wheels for the rear at 2k a pop for certification we'd have to do the same for the front wheel. No company has done this before and this is why we haven't - there is no reason to as the actual structure and safety/load rating of the wheel doesn't change with a different offset. Which is why we don't TUV certify "every" wheel.

For our 1-piece wheels alone it would require 40 different forgings (wheel sizes), x 12 spoke designs x roughly 100 different offset permutations which would only require about 48,000 wheels to be certified to have our entire 1-piece line officially TUV certified in every fitment configuration possible. And then we'd have to start in on our 3-piece wheels. Do you think any other big name wheel manufacture did that to TUV certify their entire line? Of course not.

Hopefully this can help claify why this whole TUV certified/not TUV certified thing is a slightly ridiculous discussion to begin with. The facts are this - our wheels are up to TUV standards or we wouldn't have been able to get TUV manufacturing certification. Every ADV.1 wheel on the road can pass that certification but are we going to certify every style and option? No. And no other company would either. For our customers in Germany - where this certification is actually necessary, those are the applications we're going to certify for on their specific orders.

I hope this can clarify the TUV certification and any concerns with the safety of our product line.

[e1000]

Originally Posted by checkmate

Are VMR wheels (sold by EAS and **********s) legit?

They're gravity cast wheels made in taiwan. Claim to be JWL/VIA.

[davedave]

now i understand why the Really big wheel companys dont' pump out # of designs as ADV.

[HRE_Mickey]

What is TUV?

Over the years HRE has received numerous questions regarding TUV certification. What is it? Why is it important? What is required? Other companies are starting to claim they have TUV certification and we have received numerous questions as to whether these claims are true or false. HRE can’t determine whether others are properly going through the legitimate process of getting TUV approval or just falsely claiming TUV approval to improve their image. What we can do is clarify what is required of TUV and what you should be looking for from a company that claims to have TUV approval.



1) WHAT IS TUV? - In the case of wheels, TUV is a European auditing and certification body that ensures wheels manufactured for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria meet international (ECE Regulations), EC (European Community) directives, and German Motor Traffic Agency (KBA) road traffic legislation.

2) HOW DOES TUV WORK? - There are 3 major aspects to receiving TUV certification.
a) Manufacturer Certification (Certification of the wheel manufacturer’s quality management system) - If you aren’t an actual manufacturer you can’t be a TUV certified manufacturer. If you’re not a real manufacturer and your supplier isn’t a TUV certified manufacturer you cannot have your wheels TUV approved. This requires that the actual manufacturing facility (in HRE’s case this is our production facility at our headquarters in Vista, CA) passes an audit every 3 years by TUV authorities from Europe. The facility must ensure the manufacture of its wheels meet the standards set by the authorities above in point 1. This is very similar to an ISO 9001 audit and designed to ensure consistent quality of manufacture. TUV wants to ensure that wheels sent to TUV for te sting are not “ringers” and that all wheels manufactured at the approved facility meet the same standards. HRE’s quality management system was originally certified in 2008 by Germany and recertified in 2011 by Austria (which is applicable for Germany).

b) WHEEL TESTING CERTIFICATES (Certification of wheels as conforming to geometric standards and having passed structural fatigue and impact requirements for specific vehicle and load rating requirements) - Once a manufacturer’s facility is certified they are then able to send wheels to Europe to pass TUV geometric tolerance analysis and testing for fatigue and impact. This is not a generic style-based test, but vehicle-based with each style being tested with the proper widths and offsets and load rating for the appropriate vehicle targets. This is a very time consuming and costly endeavor for any manufacturer to TUV certify their entire wheel offering, particularly a brand like HRE that makes custom fitments and offers dozens of styles for any particular vehicle. Given this fact, HRE does not certify every style and fitment, however we do have multiple styles in several fitments tested, approved and certified for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Regardless of certification, ALL HRE wheels are designed to pass TUV structural specifications (with varying load ratings depending on vehicle targets) and are sent for certification when the demand for them in Europe meets a minimum threshold.

c) VEHICLE OWNER CERTIFICATION (Certificates ensuring wheels installed on an owner’s vehicle are TUV certified for that vehicle) - This is a certificate that the owner of the vehicle receives from TUV authorities showing his wheels are TUV certified so he can legally register his vehicle and pass annual inspections in Germany. The wheel manufacturer does not supply this document.

3) IS TUV FOR WHEELS ONLY? - TUV does not only cover wheels. It covers everything from toys to wheels to appliances so companies may hold TUV certificates that do not in any way allow them to legally sell wheels in Germany, Switzerland or Austria. By the same token HRE is only able to sell wheels (not toys) and only those wheels tested in Europe having passed the appropriate tests. None of this is possible without FIRST receiving the manufacturer certification. More importantly, simply by having a wheel pass a TUV test does NOT mean you are a TUV certified manufacturer. You must have a manufacturing facility to certify and that facility must pass the audit.

4) WHY DOESN'T HRE PUBLISH TUV CERTIFICATIONS? - We’ve been asked for a long time to publish TUV certificates. For many reasons HRE does not publish internal specifications and documents, but we will deviate from that decision to help clarify the confusion and show you our manufacturer certificates from 2008 and 2011 and we will show you an example of a wheel testing certificate; in this case the latest wheels sent to TUV for testing, a P43 in 20x9.5 ET42, PCD 5/114.3. The tests required 3 wheels to be tested for cornering fatigue, radial fatigue and impact at 750kg, a much higher level than the original design load rating. All passed. These tests certify the P43 style in that specific width, offset and PCD for that specific load rating.








5) HOW DO I KNOW IF A COMPANY IS REALLY TUV APPROVED? - TUV obviously wants to ensure others aren’t making false claims about TUV approval. For this reason they have a simple website system to check a manufacturer’s TUV Registration ID number. HRE’s current TUV ID number is 20102112006509. This number can be confirmed as genuine by following the link below to the TUV website and entering the registration number or simply typing in HRE. Ask a manufacturer for their registration ID number and website link. They should be proud to give it to you.

HRE TUV ID check: CLICK HERE
TÜV Austria - TÜV AUSTRIA - System Certificates
Search for ID 20102112006509



TUV RHEINLAND CERTIFICATE CHECK, TÜV Rheinland Group - TUVdotCOM Service



If there are any further questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.


HRE Factory tour
Here are some great video tours of the HRE facility and how HRE makes wheel

eGarage - HRE Wheels
How HRE Forged Wheels Are Made - The Octane Report - YouTube
HRE Wheels - "PLUS" level production package example - YouTube

[E90///M3`]

awesome post Lon! HRE is so win... maybe one day i'll get a set.

[8_is_enough]

oh shit. game over son

HRE FTW

[isugoo]

Lon wins.

[Carlos@MORR]

Very good to see manufacturers moving on to certifying their wheels. Nowadays, anybody can have a "wheel company", but very few companies have a true wheel companies. We keep all engineering and quality control in-house. Every wheels is tested and certified. HRE has been a benchmark to the industry for a long time and makes me proud the work of Gene did is still showing progress. This is what an actual TUV certificate looks like. Unless a wheel company can provide one like it, they cannot be considered TUV certified. Props to HRE for this great achievement.

Our manufacturing facilities are ISO 9001:2000 certified. Our wheels are leaving for TUV testing this month and we should have our first TUV certification very soon will post the certificate and KBA number as soon as it's completed.

[HRE_Mickey]

Originally Posted by Carlos@MORR

Very good to see manufacturers moving on to certifying their wheels. Nowadays, anybody can have a "wheel company", but very few companies have a true wheel companies. We keep all engineering and quality control in-house. Every wheels is tested and certified. HRE has been a benchmark to the industry for a long time and makes me proud the work of Gene did is still showing progress. This is what an actual TUV certificate looks like. Unless a wheel company can provide one like it, they cannot be considered TUV certified. Props to HRE for this great achievement.

Our manufacturing facilities are ISO 9001:2000 certified. Our wheels are leaving for TUV testing this month and we should have our first TUV certification very soon will post the certificate and KBA number as soon as it's completed.

Gene has had no affiliation with HRE since 1997. The current wheels, technology, processes, facility, culture, and definitely the TUV certs had nothing to do with Gene. Sorry

[ADV.1 Matt]

Guys we'll post all of our certifications and numbers as soon as we get it back from TUV. The papers were just signed a week and a half ago when our German dealer was in town and I know they have submitted everything to TUV. We're just waiting on the official documents to be sent back in the mail and we'll post everything up for you to see.

[11' AW M3]

Originally Posted by Carlos@MORR

Very good to see manufacturers moving on to certifying their wheels. Nowadays, anybody can have a "wheel company", but very few companies have a true wheel companies. We keep all engineering and quality control in-house. Every wheels is tested and certified. HRE has been a benchmark to the industry for a long time and makes me proud the work of Gene did is still showing progress. This is what an actual TUV certificate looks like. Unless a wheel company can provide one like it, they cannot be considered TUV certified. Props to HRE for this great achievement.

Our manufacturing facilities are ISO 9001:2000 certified. Our wheels are leaving for TUV testing this month and we should have our first TUV certification very soon will post the certificate and KBA number as soon as it's completed.

Are your multi-piece wheels tested and certified as well?

[Poppin Fresh]

What bothers me the most is the misnomer of labeling 20" wheels as "track" spec/function/edition blah blah blah...when they are not even certified nor are they suitable for track use/integrity. It's such a misleading label to use and is ground for misrepresentation from an advertising/marketing standpoint.

[Moxie]

Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt

Guys we'll post all of our certifications and numbers as soon as we get it back from TUV. The papers were just signed a week and a half ago when our German dealer was in town and I know they have submitted everything to TUV. We're just waiting on the official documents to be sent back in the mail and we'll post everything up for you to see.

So where are they @? Priority mail takes five days - coming by boat?

[E90///M3`]

Originally Posted by Moxie

So where are they @? Priority mail takes five days - coming by boat?

[IFX]

i just read through this whole thread. I never intend on buying any aftermarket wheels, but I read it anyway. How nice.

[Alan l.]

MORR,

What certifications does your VS8.2 currently carry? Please post it here.

I find your naming convention to be misleading. "Monoforged" is your trade mark line name that suggests that the VS8.2 is a forged wheel but I have yet to see MORR confirm nor deny it when certain members asked. I was also told by a few of your dealers that the VS8.2 are not forged and are form flow cast.

Please clearify for the public.

Alan

[aus]

MORR posted a TUV certification somewhere in this thread.

I'm also curious if their wheels are really forged, but as long as their TUV and light, that's all that really matters. APEX wheels are VIA/JWL and not forged either, but both are light, strong and certified by a quality organization. That's all that really matters.

.

[Alan l.]

From the last post by Morr they are not TuV certified yet.

Alan

[HRE_Mickey]

Best way to verify TUV certification is to do search on TUV websites. If you can't find them listed, they aren't TUV certified.

HRE TUV ID check: CLICK HERE
TÜV Austria - TÜV AUSTRIA - System Certificates
Search for ID 20102112006509



TUV RHEINLAND CERTIFICATE CHECK, TÜV Rheinland Group - TUVdotCOM Service

[montreal red]

amazing post from the guys at HRE... very informative indeed!

[11' AW M3]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

MORR,

What certifications does your VS8.2 currently carry? Please post it here.

I find your naming convention to be misleading. "Monoforged" is your trade mark line name that suggests that the VS8.2 is a forged wheel but I have yet to see MORR confirm nor deny it when certain members asked. I was also told by a few of your dealers that the VS8.2 are not forged and are form flow cast.

Please clearify for the public.

Alan

I have asked this as well in previous threads. The second time, rather than answering, he presented questions such as "if its not forged t6 6061 then you wouldn't be able to achieve the brushed finish"... well that is untrue as there are Forgestar's that are brushed. I also had a dealer tell me they are not forged, but rather "spunforged" as his original name suggested before changing back to monoforged. He then sent me a message asking which vendor told me the wheels aren't forged. He never directly answered when I asked him to clarify if there is any difference from his wheels and HRE monoblocks which start from a forged billet and are then "spun" to achieve the barrel shape.

There was also a ton of false information in that thread, including that the wheels are TUV certified and VIA/JWL, which they are neither. However, they have been tested at STL, and the results have been posted, which is more than enough IMO. I just didn't like the false information being spread regarding the certifications that the wheels DON'T have, along with the questions regarding whether the wheels are truly forged or not. Carlos seems to like to call other vendors out, but doesn't like to be called out himself.

Now the questions that I do have for Carlos is whether his multi-piece line has ANY testing. There has been nothing posted, and he has ignored my multiple questions. I don't care about certifications, but at the very least he should have then independently tested like he did for his VS8... heck, this is what he has called all these other companies out for but has yet to provide any evidence of him doing it himself!

[Alan l.]

I read that thread which is why I am asking Carlos to clarify here.

I don't want a response filled with fancy names and mumbo jumbo etc.. Seems like lots of companies come up with a name with the word "forged" in it to try to sell wheels implying they are when they really aren't. Lots of people fall for this type of advertisement but not everyone does.

1) post actual certifications for the wheels that have them

2) Are the wheels forged or cast? Should be a simple answer.

Not trying to stir the pot but I am very interested in the 20" VS8.2 for my next car and like to get all the facts before I commit spending 4k for wheels. Especially if the wheels are not forged. Living in NYC pothole capital, I need a strong wheel.

Alan