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      03-02-2012, 03:36 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naterater View Post
This is the one for March, seems like they break them into time frames. The purchase dates for this rebate is 3/1 - 3/24.
Must be - I got in on the February rebate.
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      03-18-2012, 09:45 AM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Update: OK well I've now done a lot of miles with this set up and its fine...in a blind test you'd struggle to feel any real difference from PS2s all round excepting that you might notice a little more rear traction with the PSSs at the back.
Hi All, I was about to buy some new PS2's for the rear then came across this thread. I have 1 brand new PS2 on the front, and another 50% worn. The rears are shot.

So can I run PSS's on the rears, and PS2's on the front? Based on my searches, it appears this is ok.

Anybody else tried this? Opinions?

thanks.

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      03-18-2012, 11:17 AM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojorisinM3 View Post
Hi All, I was about to buy some new PS2's for the rear then came across this thread. I have 1 brand new PS2 on the front, and another 50% worn. The rears are shot.

So can I run PSS's on the rears, and PS2's on the front? Based on my searches, it appears this is ok.

Anybody else tried this? Opinions?
I haven't tried it personally, but it should be fine. Be aware at first you will need to get used to slightly different handling (true with new tires in general, but more so when mixing types or new with half worn).
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      03-18-2012, 04:07 PM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojorisinM3 View Post
Hi All, I was about to buy some new PS2's for the rear then came across this thread. I have 1 brand new PS2 on the front, and another 50% worn. The rears are shot.

So can I run PSS's on the rears, and PS2's on the front? Based on my searches, it appears this is ok.

Anybody else tried this? Opinions?

thanks.

Mike
Running different tires front and rear is possible, but, IMO, not a good idea.

The PSS perform much better than the PS2, so you will throw the balance of the car. Albeit, running the PS2 in front will most likely induce more understeer, which is a safer set-up than the other way around.

If it were my car, I would thrash the front PS2 and run PSS at all four corners.
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      03-18-2012, 04:48 PM   #467
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Don't worry about it. Put the PSS in the rear. When the front PS2 are done, but PSS. No point in throwing away a pair of what are also very good tires. Any alteration to the balance of the car is no worse than when people change wheels or tire sizes or suspension parts.
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      03-18-2012, 04:59 PM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Don't worry about it. Put the PSS in the rear. When the front PS2 are done, but PSS. No point in throwing away a pair of what are also very good tires. Any alteration to the balance of the car is no worse than when people change wheels or tire sizes or suspension parts.
ben@tirerack has posted on several occassions that Michelin DOES NOT recommend mixing PSS and PS2 tires.
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      03-18-2012, 09:07 PM   #469
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255/35/18 275/35/18

about 80-100 miles on the tires now, not feeling it's better than the PS2...

or does it need more miles to break it in?
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      03-19-2012, 08:56 AM   #470
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Anybody have pics of 255/275 PSS with 10mm spacers in the rear on a ZCP car?
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      03-19-2012, 12:16 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardbb85 View Post
255/35/18 275/35/18

about 80-100 miles on the tires now, not feeling it's better than the PS2...

or does it need more miles to break it in?
Read they need ~300 miles .
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      03-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
Read they need ~300 miles .
+1. Will feel squirrelly until mold release compound wears off and the tread scrubs in a bit.
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      03-19-2012, 01:11 PM   #473
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thank you
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      03-19-2012, 03:59 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Don't worry about it. Put the PSS in the rear. When the front PS2 are done, but PSS. No point in throwing away a pair of what are also very good tires. Any alteration to the balance of the car is no worse than when people change wheels or tire sizes or suspension parts.
The right mods done to the suspension or tires should improve the overall balance.

Bad mods will worsen the balance. IMO, putting PSS in back and PS2 in front will worsen the handling characteristics.

That said, if the car is used as a boulevard cruiser, the difference will most likely not be noticed .
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      03-19-2012, 04:00 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The right mods done to the suspension or tires should improve the overall balance.

Bad mods will worsen the balance. IMO, putting PSS in back and PS2 in front will worsen the handling characteristics.

That said, if the car is used as a boulevard cruiser, the difference will most likely not be noticed .
When I ran PSS's for one lap last year I had a discourse with a michelin test engineer - he specifically suggested running ps2's in the front. I haven't it tried it but thought it was interesting

Last edited by quads; 03-19-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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      03-19-2012, 04:16 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
When I ran PSS's for one lap last year I had a discourse with a michelin test engineer - he specifically suggested running ps2's in the front. I have it tried it but thought it was interesting
Interesting indeed!!

Could you elaborate? I am curious about the theory behind it.

PS: Did you or didn't you try it, not clear in your post...
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      03-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Interesting indeed!!

Could you elaborate?

PS: Did you or didn't you try it, not clear in your post...
I didn't try it yet (edited above post)

Here's the email I got from the michelin testing guy...

Left you a voicemail. Here is some stuff that may help. Call back and I can explain more.

Are you running this tire size on all four corners? If so, then this applies.

The PSS has awesome compounds on it, so grip isn't an issue (esp in the wet). I've tested it against all the competitor tires, and there is nothing that beats in on a road course (or on a wet track). The problem that I think you are having is a vehicle balance issue. Those tires you have are designed for the rear axle of most split fitment cars. Because they mainly go on the rear, we make the tire give the car some stability. The bad part is that it makes the car understeer when you put it on the front axle. You will have good grip, but the car will want to understeer more so. This puts extra stress on the outside of the tire. Is the driver complaining about understeer?

If you can't change tires, you can play with the air pressures a little to help. Let me know where you are at and I can tell you what to do. Also, the driver will have to be aware of this and try not to punish the fronts as hard.

If you can change tires, I would suggest going to the PS2 that is on the front of the Dodge Viper (Michelin part # 84530). It's the same size that you are currently using. The compound on it is awesome and it's designed for the front axle. This tire will balance the car more towards neutral mid corner with it on all four corners.

How is the car driving? Do you have a lot of corner entry or mid corner understeer? If so, this is because you have tires designed for the rear on the front of the car. See my note above. Many people do this, but you have to adjust the car (camber, stabi-bars, springs and dampers) and your driving style to compensate for the understeer (easier on the fronts on entry and mid corner, use some weight transfer to get the car to turn - light braking or lift throttle).

Brian said that you were testing at Little Talladega. I've been there on a motorcycle before. It's tight and really hard on tires (light a cheese grader). I suspect that the other tracks that you go to will not be as hard on the tires.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.
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      03-19-2012, 05:10 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardbb85 View Post
255/35/18 275/35/18

about 80-100 miles on the tires now, not feeling it's better than the PS2...

or does it need more miles to break it in?
All my testing (auto-x, wet skid pad, road course) with the PSS's has been with no break-in and they have performed amazingly from the start!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
+1. Will feel squirrelly until mold release compound wears off and the tread scrubs in a bit.
The Pilot Super Sport tire manufacturing facility does not use mold release agents and all molds are either bare or coated with an industrial coating/not lubricant.

This coating reduces friction, improves wear resistance and is used for non-stick applications. An example would be non-stick cookware (like DuPont's trademarkedTeflon).

All of the Pilot Super Sport molds (both in EU and the US) have these coated molds.
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      03-19-2012, 06:44 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
I didn't try it yet (edited above post)

Here's the email I got from the michelin testing guy...

Left you a voicemail. Here is some stuff that may help. Call back and I can explain more.

Are you running this tire size on all four corners? If so, then this applies.

The PSS has awesome compounds on it, so grip isn't an issue (esp in the wet). I've tested it against all the competitor tires, and there is nothing that beats in on a road course (or on a wet track). The problem that I think you are having is a vehicle balance issue. Those tires you have are designed for the rear axle of most split fitment cars. Because they mainly go on the rear, we make the tire give the car some stability. The bad part is that it makes the car understeer when you put it on the front axle. You will have good grip, but the car will want to understeer more so. This puts extra stress on the outside of the tire. Is the driver complaining about understeer?

If you can't change tires, you can play with the air pressures a little to help. Let me know where you are at and I can tell you what to do. Also, the driver will have to be aware of this and try not to punish the fronts as hard.

If you can change tires, I would suggest going to the PS2 that is on the front of the Dodge Viper (Michelin part # 84530). It's the same size that you are currently using. The compound on it is awesome and it's designed for the front axle. This tire will balance the car more towards neutral mid corner with it on all four corners.

How is the car driving? Do you have a lot of corner entry or mid corner understeer? If so, this is because you have tires designed for the rear on the front of the car. See my note above. Many people do this, but you have to adjust the car (camber, stabi-bars, springs and dampers) and your driving style to compensate for the understeer (easier on the fronts on entry and mid corner, use some weight transfer to get the car to turn - light braking or lift throttle).

Brian said that you were testing at Little Talladega. I've been there on a motorcycle before. It's tight and really hard on tires (light a cheese grader). I suspect that the other tracks that you go to will not be as hard on the tires.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks a lot for sharing . Always good to have new/more info.

I am a bit surprised about this, as I used to shred my front PS2 outer edges when I ran them in the dry. The PSS seem to be slightly more resistant.

But hey, who am I to argue with a Michelin engineer .

If you ever try this set-up out, let us know. Any clue on identifying which PSS were designed for front application vs rear?
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      03-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thanks a lot for sharing . Always good to have new/more info.

I am a bit surprised about this, as I used to shred my front PS2 outer edges when I ran them in the dry. The PSS seem to be slightly more resistant.

But hey, who am I to argue with a Michelin engineer .

If you ever try this set-up out, let us know. Any clue on identifying which PSS were designed for front application vs rear?
If I am not mistaken, 4sevens is/was running a 275/30/19 up front. If this is the case then the comment from the michelin engineer on the Viper tire makes sense.
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      03-20-2012, 12:26 AM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
I didn't try it yet (edited above post)

Here's the email I got from the michelin testing guy...

Left you a voicemail. Here is some stuff that may help. Call back and I can explain more.

Are you running this tire size on all four corners? If so, then this applies.

The PSS has awesome compounds on it, so grip isn't an issue (esp in the wet). I've tested it against all the competitor tires, and there is nothing that beats in on a road course (or on a wet track). The problem that I think you are having is a vehicle balance issue. Those tires you have are designed for the rear axle of most split fitment cars. Because they mainly go on the rear, we make the tire give the car some stability. The bad part is that it makes the car understeer when you put it on the front axle. You will have good grip, but the car will want to understeer more so. This puts extra stress on the outside of the tire. Is the driver complaining about understeer?

If you can't change tires, you can play with the air pressures a little to help. Let me know where you are at and I can tell you what to do. Also, the driver will have to be aware of this and try not to punish the fronts as hard.

If you can change tires, I would suggest going to the PS2 that is on the front of the Dodge Viper (Michelin part # 84530). It's the same size that you are currently using. The compound on it is awesome and it's designed for the front axle. This tire will balance the car more towards neutral mid corner with it on all four corners.

How is the car driving? Do you have a lot of corner entry or mid corner understeer? If so, this is because you have tires designed for the rear on the front of the car. See my note above. Many people do this, but you have to adjust the car (camber, stabi-bars, springs and dampers) and your driving style to compensate for the understeer (easier on the fronts on entry and mid corner, use some weight transfer to get the car to turn - light braking or lift throttle).

Brian said that you were testing at Little Talladega. I've been there on a motorcycle before. It's tight and really hard on tires (light a cheese grader). I suspect that the other tracks that you go to will not be as hard on the tires.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.
This has been my experience in tracking w/ PSS. I ran it (255/35/19f & 275/35/19r on ZCP wheels) for 3 track weekend days during July last year and, on 2 rather tight tracks (Streets of Willow), it surprisingly understeered quite a bit.

Not being a tire nor a race engineer, I was rather puzzled. But, now I know! Thanks for sharing this.

P.S. After getting a front tire corded & chunked on the 3rd track day with it (made a rookie mistake of forgetting to release some pressure in the morning), switched to AD08 for subsequent track days and they were much better. But, for street driving, PSS all the way.
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      03-20-2012, 09:31 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crummer View Post
If I am not mistaken, 4sevens is/was running a 275/30/19 up front. If this is the case then the comment from the michelin engineer on the Viper tire makes sense.
This is also what I understood.

I am still puzzled by the physics of this: How can putting a tire with more grip in the front increase understeer ?
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      03-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
This is also what I understood.

I am still puzzled by the physics of this: How can putting a tire with more grip in the front increase understeer ?
If you try to steer while still on power you'll get understeer. The severity depending on how much power you've applied.

I've corrected my driving to compensate. Load up the front a bit as I turn in and I have no problems anymore.
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      03-20-2012, 09:41 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
If you try to steer while still on power you'll get understeer. The severity depending on how much power you've applied.

I've corrected my driving to compensate. Load up the front a bit as I turn in and I have no problems anymore.
Agree on what you stated: Load the front to get more grip.

But how would installing a front tire with less grip help?
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