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      07-04-2007, 04:57 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post

Handling: How did the very quick steering ratio used feel? I'd expect it to be a big improvement over the E46 M3. In the progression of handling through the model years the M has clearly gone more GT, less sport. That change was fairly dramatic from E36 to E46. Has the E92 continued that evolution of feel or is there any recapturing of the E36 "feel"? Some of that clearly has to do with weight. Does the car feel so nimble/balanced/fast that it hides it weight well or perhaps even feels lighter than it is? Does the car have much factory dialed understeer, too much? How is the handling right on the limit, easy to control or race car sketchy? Easy or hard to drive at the limit? Is the car under tired, especially on initial max acceleration take offs? Did you bother testing the invasiveness of the traction (and other electronic) controls or just leave it full off, all the time?
Good questions and spot on in terms of where to ask.

The steering rack is on a par with the Z4M Coupe, which means much quicker than the E46 M3 and enabling the E92 to feel more agile as a consequence.

Yes, it hides its weight well. So much so that it does not feel heavier than the E46 M3, in fact I would say it feels lighter though chunky and substantial.

Understeer? What understeer? The M3 doesn't seem to do understeer. This is now probably the easiest BMW yet made to oversteer and drift with, it's so predictable and easy to anticipate that it's a joy to get out of shape.

The M3 feels just right in terms of tyres, lots of grip from specially developed Michelin PS2s but with progressive breakaway.

We did play around with the DSC settings. DSC off was predictable and easy to control. M-Dynamic mode was closer to M-track (as on the CSL, which I realise you wont have tried, but it allows sideways action on slippery roads), then DSC ON is still not too invasive and allows plenty of speed to be carried through corners without getting in the way. There is a good mix of options to suit everyone.
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      07-04-2007, 05:00 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post

Do you think the EDC offers a good way to avoid having to put a special suspension set up on the car for more serious track work, IMO if it is "good enough" it should? How comfortable is the comfort mode?

Have you read about the so called "muffler visibility problem" on this board? Was it bad/noticeable in person?

Is there a mode that actually reduces engine output ala M5? Hopefully the car does not default to this mode?
EDC seems well judged. The E92 M3 does not roll when in Sport mode and yet still rides acceptably on bumpy roads. Comfortable is not 'that' comfortable, so don't worry about it being a GT car. It is set up like a sports car in pretty much all respects.

The Power settings do not reduce engine power output, but now there are more settings to define how aggressively the throttle map is used. We found that the default mode was still plenty sharp enough and was better than the default option available in the E46 M3 (i.e. when in non-Sport).
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      07-04-2007, 05:09 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Thanks for the pics.
Any pics of the extended leather on the dash with the carbon trim?
No pics, but a short video ..

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      07-04-2007, 06:25 PM   #70
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I did not read the thread thoroughly but do you have a price estimate? Also, how does the car compare to the cayman?
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      07-04-2007, 06:52 PM   #71
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Steve,
Thanks for all your work and effort getting the information out so quickly. Much appreciated. Question, would you have guessed after driving the M3 that it has less torque than the RS4, if you hadn't already known the spec numbers of both cars? Do you have concerns about the brakes holding up on the track?
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      07-04-2007, 07:00 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Have to disagree on the last remark; Looks wise it is definatly better IRL than on screen or picture. This not exclusive a M3 problem, also other BMW`s share the same problem; bad on pictures, IRL just fine..............................

I saw the M3 Alpine white myself IRL at Garching, way bettter than you ever could imagine. IMHO there are only 2 good colors for the M3; Jerez Black and Silverstone2,. Now Alpine white is not bad, but it is hyped IMO, also it is not an exlusive ///M color. I would never buy an M3 in a color that isn`t an exclusive ///M one, therefore Space gray is also not an option, for me that is.


Like your report thoug......................very good
Romo, thanks for your earlier report. Did Jerez black have a bluish hue to it as stated in the press release? Could you describe how it looked and differentiated from Jet black and carbon black? Do you think the M3 would look good in interlagos?
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      07-04-2007, 08:21 PM   #73
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As quick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
It's a very competent and fun car to drive, not a CSL in any way, but just as quick and just as loud.
I know you love your CSL and it probably has many things somewhat better than the new M, but "just as quick"??? it better be. lbs/hp using curb weights:

E92 M3: 3478/420 = 8.30 lb/hp
E46 M3 CSL: 3130/360 = 8.69 lb/hp

Plus an extra 400 rpm redline!

Last edited by swamp2; 07-05-2007 at 01:22 AM.
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      07-04-2007, 08:32 PM   #74
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Much thanks to you Steve for providing us with answers, in your opinion do you think the DCT will be released along side the 6mt when it reaches the states?

p.s. Is M-Drive standard or will it be a option? I always thought all new Ms come with the M button on the stearing wheel standard.
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      07-04-2007, 08:45 PM   #75
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Will it set my trousers on fire?

Love all of the comments about the engine noises. I like the shape a lot too - not worried about that. I want the car you drove, but with the Audi paint. BMW and their uninspiring, muddy reds. How do you mess up red?
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      07-04-2007, 10:02 PM   #76
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cup holders?
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      07-05-2007, 01:39 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Romo, thanks for your earlier report. Did Jerez black have a bluish hue to it as stated in the press release? Could you describe how it looked and differentiated from Jet black and carbon black? Do you think the M3 would look good in interlagos?
Gerez is a little bit hard to judge IMO, the ones I saw at Garching where also dirty. So can not tell you exactly the difference between Yet en Carbon black.That is just the reason I don`t want a black car anymore, to quick to dirty that is. But black does suit the car verry well.
Interlagos is a difficult color also, because it looks different in changing light conditions, from a deep blue in bright sunlight ( wich I do like) to deep purple in the shade or evening conditions ( wich I don`t like). Gerez will also react on the amount off light available. Both colors are not my 1st choise.
The color that did shock me was and still is; Silverstone2; AWESOME IMO
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      07-05-2007, 01:56 AM   #78
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iDrive interface standard?

Thanks for all the great info Steved . I am curious if the iDrive interface will be standard in the US market as is the case on the 2008 5 series. Seems Nav is extra but iDrive is standard. Important issue for me because I had an 06 330i with Nav/iDrive and loved it, but I always could do without the Nav but I don't want any Bimmer minus iDrive....your thoughts? Second. have any idea what the difference is between Jerez Black and Black Sapphire Metallic?? Thanks in advance...
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      07-05-2007, 02:39 AM   #79
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[quote=Steved;1141053]It sounds like a mix between a Ferrari V8 and an M5. Nothing else in BMW's range sounds anything like it, and the engine could easily be slotted into something very exotic looking and feel right at home. QUOTE]

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      07-05-2007, 04:12 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
The gear change is better than the E46 M3, about on a par with the Z4M. Ordinarily that would mean it is pretty good, certainly no reason to specifically choose DCT unless you want a semi-automated manual.

Colour wise, all the press cars supplied by BMW were in Melbourne Red. Now this is a really bad colour to photograph. All the magazines were complaining about how hard it was to capture, and we spent so much time trying to find the right light, otherwise it looked a kind of browny-red and rather flat. The RS4 we used for the comparison was in a standard non-metallic brilliant red and it looked superb, whereas Melbourne Red was much darker and less vibrant. Some people will like it, it is a bit like the metallic red used on Ferrari's 599GTB, but I didn't think it was as good a colour as Imola Red was on the E46 M3.

Our view from filming the car from every angle is that the shape probably suits a darker colour better than a lighter one. You usually choose a lighter colour to show the lines better, but there just aren't clear lines to show on the E92 M3. Unlike the E46 M3, it doesn't look 'pumped up' and I suspect a lighter colour would be lost on it, but I haven't seen it in Space Grey or Silverstone so maybe they will look better.

The press car we shot was Melbourne Red with the 18" smoked wheels. I can tell anyone that was debating whether to go for 18" or 19" wheels that the 18" wheels are 'much' better than were on the E46 M3. It does not look under-tyred with the 18"ers, in fact they look quite wide and aggressive (particularly being in a smoked finish). The side-walls look quite tall and Michelin said they developed these tyres specially for the M3, with a taller sidewall but as stiff as a shorter lower-profile tyre. I normally would always go for 19" wheels, but I am having second thoughts because the 18"s look perfectly adequate.

Fuel economy is the subject of an amusing anecdote. The BMW marketing people spent virtually the whole press conference talking about Efficient Dynamics and their CO2 performance. Nobody could quite work out why they were talking CO2 when there was an M3 sitting in front of them, and out on the road, admittedly driving flat-out up and down very twisty mountaneous roads we managed 11mpg. I wouldn't worry too much about that, firstly BMW's M engines are always more thirsty in the first few thousand miles (although our press car had covered 2000 km already), and secondly nobody is likely to drive their M3 regularly as hard as we were driving it, so I would expect that number to climb to early 20's mpg under normall use. We certainly didn't need to fill up the fuel tank after a day's testing, so it wasn't bad IMO.

Comparing the new V8 to the I6 is straying into our text to be published in the magazine, but I am certainly not exaggerating when I say you will be bowled over by this engine, and it is probably one of the most exotic sounding engines ever fitted to a non-supercar. It is way, way better than the old S54 straight six could ever have been. Torque is not a problem and in most respects it behaves just like a 4 liter version of the previous 3.2.

I've got wood.
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      07-05-2007, 04:46 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
the report is nice but after seeing the new C63 and reading driving reports I think BMW has underestimated AMG this time. M3 is a nice car and all but 420hp is weak.
You've driven one?

420hp = weak?

LMAO!
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      07-05-2007, 04:48 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You totally missed my point. That is not what I meant at all. What I meant was that I am done replying to other peoples comments here (kind of natural when you read through a thread well in progress) and I would actually ask some of my own questions. Note topics of my first two replies in the thread!

Easy on the insults when you totally miss the point and misinterpret what I said.
I must've missed where he insulted you.

But, I'll go ahead. You come across as an arrogant prick.
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      07-05-2007, 05:59 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
You've driven one?

420hp = weak?

LMAO!
Have you driven one?

Compared to the C63 yes, not compared to a Ford Focus. Rs4 have had 420hp for a long time now. Bmw should have given the M3 at least 440hp, at least it would look good on paper and good for bragging rights.

The horsepower gap between M3 E46 and M5 E39 was much smaller than M3 E92 and M5 e60. Why the hell did they change that for the new M3.


I really hope the M3 engine has more power than BMW claim it does.
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      07-05-2007, 06:54 AM   #84
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Do you think is more more performance than Z4 M?
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      07-05-2007, 07:46 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabri343 View Post
Do you think is more more performance than Z4 M?
I hope so!! Z4m on BBC quoted the z4m 0-60 5sec.
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      07-05-2007, 08:33 AM   #86
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Steved, thanks for the great write up. What I want to know, and I think Gabri was going in this direction, is how does it handle compared to the Z4M? It's obviously got more power, but how does it feel when hitting turns hard? Also, what's the weight balance look like? Is close to 50/50 or more like 52/48?

P.S. I love your car collection.
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      07-05-2007, 08:46 AM   #87
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Steve,
Do you have any experience in the 335? What about a 335 with an ECU piggyback for more power? I guess the questions I'm getting at are: The 335 is quick (faster than BMW's official numbers), how does the new M compare? Is it night and day, hands down, M all the way, or would the 335 hold its own? What about a 335 with a $1300 ECU piggyback + $1500 exhaust putting down 375 whp/405 lb/ft torque? I'm not really trying to ask if the modded 335 is as good as an M. Obviously you can't turn a 3-series into an M without some serious effort/cost, but bang for the buck, for a person who will never ever track the car, is a modded 335 even in the same league?
Thanks for the insight thus far. Very enjoyable.
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      07-05-2007, 08:50 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJ35DRVR View Post
... I'm not really trying to ask if the modded 335 is as good as an M. ...

Could have fooled me.
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